89 replies to this topic

[Tabrias07]

Kunae, on 15 January 2013 - 11:44 AM, said:

Any non-ecm light will get eaten by any ECM light with SSRM's.

l2p

[Budor]

9M needs ECM, an underplayed chassi that moves at the speeds of mediums and fast heavies that do not have ECM. NOW!

[Horned Bull]

Kunae, on 15 January 2013 - 11:44 AM, said:

Any non-ecm light will get eaten by any ECM light with SSRM's.

only thanks to the lagshield. Without it, they won't be invincible. I still remember that killing streakmando in 6sl jenner was possible on the previous engine when the lagshield wasn't so severe.

[Adridos]

Jenner's were the alpha and omega of everything a light wants to be.

And they weren't even nerfed...

All that changed, is that niw you get a tast of your own medicine and have to wait until the netcode gets fixed like the rest of us.

[Dirus Nigh]

Tabrias07, on 15 January 2013 - 11:46 AM, said:

l2p

Really dude? That is your post, l2p? You are telling some one to learn to play when you are clearly supporting an over powered combination of ECM and streaks. ECM nulls all lock on weapons and shared target data. Streaks lock on target and hold down trigger to spam fire missiles until target dies.

[Kraven Kor]

Eh, they drew just as much hate before the introduction of ECM, believe me

[Grand Ayatollah Kerensky]

Fix netcode and give non-ecm lights more firepower so that the pubbies will whine about something else. ECM QQing is getting old.

[Kaldor]

Dirus Nigh, on 15 January 2013 - 11:52 AM, said:

Really dude? That is your post, l2p? You are telling some one to learn to play when you are clearly supporting an over powered combination of ECM and streaks. ECM nulls all lock on weapons and shared target data. Streaks lock on target and hold down trigger to spam fire missiles until target dies.

Exactly. The Raven 3L is the king of lights right now for exactly this reason. The Com 2D is close, but in a straight fight the Raven will win due to being better armored and generally having 2-3 ML that actually hit on a Commando due the Commando actually having working hitboxes.

Average Raven Pilot:

Herp: ECM equipped
Derp: Fire SSRM until dead
Herp: Bounce off all the mechs that should crush my skull
Derp: Broken hitboxes and bad netcode TROLOLOLOL

[Kunae]

Korm, on 15 January 2013 - 11:47 AM, said:

only thanks to the lagshield. Without it, they won't be invincible. I still remember that killing streakmando in 6sl jenner was possible on the previous engine when the lagshield wasn't so severe.

The lag-shield is only part of the problem, albeit a major part. The CryEngine 3.41 update patch also broke the hit-boxes, on most mechs. In addition, Streak-SRMs have been buffed since that period.

Since they seem to be hell-bent on "balancing for the moment", with everything else, why not this as well?

Adridos, on 15 January 2013 - 11:48 AM, said:

Jenner's were the alpha and omega of everything a light wants to be. And they weren't even nerfed... All that changed, is that niw you get a tast of your own medicine and have to wait until the netcode gets fixed like the rest of us.

Nerf 1: Lag-shield
Nerf 2: Streak-SRM buff
Nerf 3: ECM on all other chassis of lights, but Jenners.
Nerf 4: Jump-Jets requiring full loadout(Expected, but still a nerf)
Nerf 5: At the same time as the full loadout of JJ's was enforced, JJ thrust nerfed down to approximately 60% of previous performance, with a full compliment of JJ's.

Nope... not nerfed at all.

[Tabrias07]

Dirus Nigh, on 15 January 2013 - 11:52 AM, said:

ECM nulls all lock on weapons and shared target data. Streaks lock on target and hold down trigger to spam fire missiles until target dies.

TAG nullifies ECM on a target, and turns off the ECM bubble if the mech is carrying it. (apparently not correct, I was misinformed. TAG is underpowered, but does let you lock on an ECM'd mech, albeit slowly.) ECM also counters ECM. You have teammates. The Jenner doesn't need an ECM variant.

Edited by Tabrias07, 15 January 2013 - 12:25 PM.

[Kaldor]

Tabrias07, on 15 January 2013 - 12:00 PM, said:

TAG nullifies ECM on a target, and turns off the ECM bubble if the mech is carrying it. ECM also counters ECM. You have teammates. The Jenner doesn't need an ECM variant.

Inside of 180 TAG does nothing against ECM....

[Dirus Nigh]

Kraven Kor, on 15 January 2013 - 11:53 AM, said:

Eh, they drew just as much hate before the introduction of ECM, believe me

True that. I saw the potential for streaks as being over the top back in closed beta. At the time people were raging about the swayback and gausscat. I remember getting in the 2D for the first time and sticking in three streaks. I started hunting down jenners. The weapon still needed fixing then. However the lights with missile points kept the problem even.

Then the heat sink allotment for engines was fixed, and engine rating capped. People learned that the gausscat was no OP and could be countered by tactics. That's then the streak cat really came into play, proving my prediction on how streaks would effect the game.

[Kunae]

Kraven Kor, on 15 January 2013 - 11:53 AM, said:

Eh, they drew just as much hate before the introduction of ECM, believe me

ECM isn't where the ignorant Jenner-hate came from. It was all the final patch before OB, where they took out collisions, broke hit-boxes and deposited a big ol' stinkin pile of lag-shield, on our arses.

[Tabrias07]

Kunae, on 15 January 2013 - 12:08 PM, said:

ECM isn't where the ignorant Jenner-hate came from. It was all the final patch before OB, where they took out collisions, broke hit-boxes and deposited a big ol' stinkin pile of lag-shield, on our arses.

Jenners were hated long before collisions were removed. They were just easier to put down then.

[Kunae]

Perhaps by folks such as yourself.

Where does your anti-Jenner bigotry stem from?

[Dirus Nigh]

Tabrias07, on 15 January 2013 - 12:00 PM, said:

TAG nullifies ECM on a target, and turns off the ECM bubble if the mech is carrying it. ECM also counters ECM. You have teammates. The Jenner doesn't need an ECM variant.

TAG does not nullify an ECM. It is a very limited spotting tool that can only be used on one target at a time. The fact that TAG had its ranged increased by 300m because of ECM is a big clue that ECM is over powered.

The fact that ECM is being strictly limited to only a handful of mechs is further proof that ECM is unbalanced. ECM like TAG, NARC, or BAP should have capabilities that gives a limited tactical ability. That way it can be put on any mech with out it becoming a problem. IT should be made so the decision of using ECM is not based on weather it gives you a huge advantage for having it or disadvantage if you don't.

In effect it should add spice to the game not completely over whelm it.

Edited by Dirus Nigh, 15 January 2013 - 12:16 PM.

[Felicitatem Parco]

The removal of collisions was not "arbitrary," people. When it's returned, everyone who's not a leghumper will have improved their piloting and gunnery skills as a result of it's temporary removal. Learning how to shoot them without knockdown has only made us stronger...

Anyways, I have a Founder's Jenner... and I like the Jenner F, but I can't personally justify the Jenner K simply for a Module Slot. I don't have enough modules to make it worth it. In my personal opinion, I'd like to see an ECM Jenner in the form of a Jenner 7K with reduced hardpoints or reduced JJ capacity.

[Josef Nader]

The Jenner is -still- the best combat chassis in the light mechs. ECM has become FotM, but no Raven can match a Jenner for firepower, they move at the same speed and have the same armor. The Jenner canonical role is as a guerrilla fighter and harrasser, a role it still excels at. The Raven is oriented towards a scout role far more than the Jenner is.

All of the bad light pilots have jumped onto Ravens, which is why you see them everywhere. I still see plenty of Jenners, and they're still doing very well from what I've seen.

[Kaldor]

Tabrias07, on 15 January 2013 - 12:09 PM, said:

Jenners were hated long before collisions were removed. They were just easier to put down then.

Wow. Im not sure what to say.

I dont know about you, but I really have no issue killing a Jenner with direct fire weapons, both ACs and lasers, than I had at any point during beta. Same goes with Commandos and Cicadas, the other 2 fast chassis in the game. What I do have issue with is the Raven 3L that can take multiple alphas of 40-50 points in the torso while standing still, only turn yellow armor and run away singing "TROLOLOL" as they proceed to jam skill less SSRMs up everyone elses arse.

[Tabrias07]

Dirus Nigh, on 15 January 2013 - 12:15 PM, said:

TAG does not nullify an ECM. It is a very limited spotting tool that can only be used on one mech. The fact that TAG had its ranged increased by 300m because of ECM is a big clue that ECM is over powered.

Obviously TAG was such a good spotting tool with a range of 350.

Dirus Nigh, on 15 January 2013 - 12:15 PM, said:

The fact that ECM is being strictly limited to only a handful of mechs is further proof that ECM is unbalanced. ECM like TAG, NARC, or BAP should have capabilities that gives a limited tactical ability. That way it can be put on any mech with out it becoming a problem. IT should be made so the decision of using ECM is not based on weather it gives you a huge advantage for having it or disadvantage if you don't.

In effect it should add spice to the game not completely over whelm it.

The entire point of ECM being limited to certain chassis is role warfare. ECM should not be on every mech, neither should BAP or TAG. If you want ECM you have to commit to taking the chassis that can carry it. The Jenner does not need ECM.

Kaldor, on 15 January 2013 - 12:20 PM, said:

Wow. Im not sure what to say.

I dont know about you, but I really have no issue killing a Jenner with direct fire weapons, both ACs and lasers, than I had at any point during beta. Same goes with Commandos and Cicadas, the other 2 fast chassis in the game. What I do have issue with is the Raven 3L that can take multiple alphas of 40-50 points in the torso while standing still, only turn yellow armor and run away singing "TROLOLOL" as they proceed to jam skill less SSRMs up everyone elses arse.

You let a Raven stand still and get away?

Edited by Tabrias07, 15 January 2013 - 12:22 PM.