288 replies to this topic

[Mackman]

SpajN, on 16 January 2013 - 11:31 AM, said:

its quite depressing seeing 99% of mechwarrior community is a bunch of crybabies. Even call of duty forums are more mature.

What do you expect when:
1) The roadmap they've given us shows three (3) items of greater or lesser importance to be added in the middle of January (the 15th, for instance) . One of those, phase 3 matchmaking, has been anticipated and looked forward to ever since it was announced.

2) They promised us a "big patch", implying that this patch was somehow different and larger than other patches.

3) Beyond this promising of a "big patch", they refused to give us even a hint of what to expect, leaving us to form expectations based on the roadmap they'd already given us, which showed three things, two of them fairly major, being added in the middle of January.

And finally, 4) The patch only contained 1 of the three roadmapped features, with absolutely no mention of phase 3 matchmaking.

Oh, forgot 5), where the devs, instead of explaining the patch and giving us updates on two things the forums really want to hear about (phase 3 and ecm), totally shut down in the face of the extreme disappointment brought on by the dev's own actions.

The reaction the forums are having has its roots in the utter lack of informative communication from the devs, as well as the hype they built up for the patch. Without those two things, one of which can still be fixed even now (should the devs care to tell us anything), the reaction would not have been nearly as extreme.

[Solis Obscuri]

Araxes, on 15 January 2013 - 07:23 PM, said:

I'm done with this game, and quite regret my Founders purchase now. Adding another fast mech BEFORE fixing the ridiculous lag-shield issue simply beggars belief... add in the complete lack of EU servers so I'm always running at 100+ ping, massively OP ECM and the ******** excuse for matchmaking that sets 4 man teams against new and solo players, and breaking point is reached. Every game is either:

A: Enemy has lots of ECM. Our team doesn't realise you should be swapping ECM modes to counter other ECM, or has no ECM of our own. Get rolled.

B: Enemy team is at least 50% light mechs making judicious use of the lag-shield. Get rolled.

C: Friendly team is entirely composed of mouth-breathing brain-dead asshats, while enemy team has at least one experienced 4-man (as evidenced by formation, chat). Get rolled*.

*may also include A & B if you happen to be particularly unlucky.

I get that this is a team game, and when I play with my group, it's usually ok. But that's all, just 'ok'. Playing solo, which we all do from time to time, is nearly always disheartening and at times completely rage-inducing. I've played ten or fifteen matches just now, and won about 2, maybe 3 of them. All the others: rolled.

I'm out. See you in a year when this game is either ready, or has fallen flat on its arse. Betting it'll be the latter.

Doing random PUG drops always was frustrating at times, but it used to be really good sometimes, too - you'd get some sensible people on your side and with a modicum of communication you could win, or at least not lose badly. I really liked the design of the Information Warfare systems for sharing target/sensor data, since it allowed the sharing of a lot of useful tactical information without needing a full team on voice-coms.

But ECM has completely broken Information Warfare. Where, in the past, if one guy in your PUG ran over a ridge, saw 5 enemies there, traded a couple shots and ran like hell for cover, you'd at least see some red sensor blips come up and think "well, that's where at least half their team is moving. I should reposition myself to reinforce that or try to flank", now he runs over, sees 5 enemies, retreats back over the ridge, then gets mobbed to death by charging D-DCs and 3Ls while trying to type a message to the team under heavy SSRM fire. The rest of the team have no idea where he went since he's not even visible on the map any more, and in a typically disorganized PUG match you can lose half the team getting butchered 8v4 under an ECM cloak before you realize where the enemy push is coming from.

PGI really screwed the pooch by designing a jesus-in-a-box unit that automatically negates the best designed, most intuitive and useful communication tools in their game.

[Solis Obscuri]

T a z z, on 16 January 2013 - 08:33 AM, said:

Even if you are happy with the overall progress of this game, there are legit reasons to be a bit disappointed in the lack of updates on certain issues. My personal peeve being the PPC...

This weapon has been in serious need of a review since closed beta and was offically be noted for updates. The Devs then noted, a particular build of a particular mech on a particular map (Read 6PPC Stalker in colder climate) has caused them to reconsider how to buff this weapon.

Trick / gimmick builds can be powerful yes, but will almost always come with weakness / flaws which the community can overcome. A splatcat is deadly, until you drop an ear or encounter one at range. (Easy enough imho) In the same idea, a 6 PPC stalker would still suffer from massive heat issues once brought into a brawl making it a matter of how to close in on this mech. If all mechs are designed to be normalized what is the point in choosing which mech / weapon?

Give the community a fair chance to help judge the game play balance! Yes trolls and whiners will have their day, but some of us want to do our job as a 'beta tester' and... TEST!

Yeah, so we'll continue to see sub-par PPCs, and meanwhile SSRMs remain perfect-CT-seeking-high-damage-missiles that are only countered by an ECM cloak that ***** up gameplay for everything else in game. Love the consistency!

[bloodnor]

I had some crazy rubber banding in my raven last night. i got pulled back about 400 meters and killed myself no idea how. it was amusing apparently. some people saw stuck running in place into a wall some saw me fly back at light speed and explode

Edited by bloodnor, 16 January 2013 - 01:12 PM.

[Jason1138]

Mackman, on 16 January 2013 - 11:53 AM, said:

What do you expect when:
1) The roadmap they've given us shows three (3) items of greater or lesser importance to be added in the middle of January (the 15th, for instance) . One of those, phase 3 matchmaking, has been anticipated and looked forward to ever since it was announced.

2) They promised us a "big patch", implying that this patch was somehow different and larger than other patches.

3) Beyond this promising of a "big patch", they refused to give us even a hint of what to expect, leaving us to form expectations based on the roadmap they'd already given us, which showed three things, two of them fairly major, being added in the middle of January.

And finally, 4) The patch only contained 1 of the three roadmapped features, with absolutely no mention of phase 3 matchmaking.

Oh, forgot 5), where the devs, instead of explaining the patch and giving us updates on two things the forums really want to hear about (phase 3 and ecm), totally shut down in the face of the extreme disappointment brought on by the dev's own actions.

The reaction the forums are having has its roots in the utter lack of informative communication from the devs, as well as the hype they built up for the patch. Without those two things, one of which can still be fixed even now (should the devs care to tell us anything), the reaction would not have been nearly as extreme.

pretty much all this. the dev's immediately freeze any discussion that is remotely critical of them or the game, and then refuse to communicate with the players at all, for months on end

since the days of closed beta you've gotten more info on twitter and facebook from devs about updates and even simple things like server down time than you get from this website, which is ludicrous

90% of the problems with this forum are directly caused by the devs refusing to manage player expectations by communicating openly and honestly with the player base

[Mackman]

Jason1138, on 16 January 2013 - 01:32 PM, said:

90% of the problems with this forum are directly caused by the devs refusing to manage player expectations by communicating openly and honestly with the player base

I think this fact really is overlooked by the devs.

Will some people rage even when explanations are given and information is shared? Of course they will: This is the internet.

But the vast majority of the playerbase will appreciate the effort, and it will go a long way towards defusing the unhappiness on the forums.

[KurtSture]

Wow Such a total **** patch. Now I have insane packetloss and rubberbanding, hurray! Totally unplayable..

[Serapth]

Mackman, on 16 January 2013 - 02:28 PM, said:

I think this fact really is overlooked by the devs.

Will some people rage even when explanations are given and information is shared? Of course they will: This is the internet.

But the vast majority of the playerbase will appreciate the effort, and it will go a long way towards defusing the unhappiness on the forums.

This hands down is the biggest problem right now. Almost everything else is an implementation detail, but a lack of communication and managed expectations, turned what could have been a mundane patch into a firestorm.

[Adrienne Vorton]

well, nothing special in my eyes... i am a bit sad that after my performance improved the last few patches my FPS drops happen more often again ...hope they get it straight soon

[Liquidx]

This thread has me thinking some interesting thoughts.

First, obviously those of us who post on the forums are a minority share of the entire player base - and as such we are seen as a vocal minority, but even though we are the minority, the poll shows no less than 62% of respondents are very unhappy with the current patch (and likely, by proxy, the overall development cycle of the game).

88% essentially couldn't care less.

Even though we are the minority of players, this is something PGI should be taking into heavy consideration as they move forward here.

We have no idea how large (or small) the player base is in its entirety right now, but it is undoubtedly smaller than when the game was in closed beta. I'd guess if the player counter was still in the client, it would likely read a number under 2k, probably closer to 1.5k and dropping swiftly. Can the game be sustained with such a small clientele? How many of those remaining are pumping money into the game?

A lot of things need to change in order for this game to become successful imo, but right now, they seem pretty far out of reach. You can't have nearly 90% of your active forum population spouting negativity and think that this in any way is a good thing.

Keep in mind, that the only reason players voice their concerns on the forum is because they are passionate about battletech, or mechwarrior - and currently, PGI, you are killing that passion with what I can only describe as apparent lackadaisical efforts.

[Mikhalio]

HiplyRustic, on 16 January 2013 - 11:24 AM, said:

Well, unless Mittens has bought his way onto the board or paid enough to get a Goon on staff everything's speculation...no matter how well-educated that speculation may be.

As I said, one can pretty much estimate; in a similar manner done by all business analysts exactly what this company is doing, and what it is not doing. As most players who have contributed alot to PGI's closed beta often have nailed down the key details, one does not really need management one-on-one's to have an accurate picture of what is wrong, and what is going on at PGI.

If you, or other white knights do not want to accept that this project is rapidly imploding into a PR pump scheme, then so be it. Consider this an opinion, that has yet to be refuted.

The fact their communication and execution is in extreme disarray; ie. their joystick failed press strategy, the Living Legends debacle (Why have they not simply hired LL team, akin to when Gabe Newell was given the buyout option of the TF2 & Gearbox teams (Counterstrike?). This only furthers to cement my view that Paul is in way over his head, and it's only getting worse. You do not need to ask the fireman if there is a house on fire, if the windows are fogged with smoke and nobody is answering the door.
We are way past the foggy windows stage, and are seeing fire from the roof tiles now (missed patches, inconsistent schedule development, erratic project schedule).

Look, if you still think I am really bluffing google the following stories of developer studios that are in full internal meltdown

- Pandemic Studios
- KAOS Studios
- THQ (pick a studio, seriously; kotaku has boatloads of second-hand interviews).

All the studios share a common theme: Executive ego run amok, long paid holidays, fancy glamour digs, ****** workmanship, a history of pump & dump projects, rush work; limited developer reputation, and no publisher confidence because projects are all colossal promote vehicles with plenty of fan disappointment.


Just ask yourself.

If you were Paul, would this game in it's current form be considered a good investment ? Would you have honestly given yourself $120 bux for the opportunity to play in an 8-month demo, consisting of 8x4 premade mech renders, in a prebuilt engine, on 2 maps in 1 pvp mode of 8v8 ?

Would this even be considered a serious E3 best in show product if it was rolled out as a "open beta" this summer ? Would you honestly want your name attached to this product ?

When your project has just taken down at least 50,000 pre-paid accounts, would you really feel comfortable pumping and brand-flanking (LL) when your product does not even have one single "metagame" module installed in your "online" game ? Is this your key business task when your team is lacking key positions, and has not released a bug free patch in 4 months ?
Is your team properly allocating capital when your struggling to complete basic assets in twice as long as your closest peer (Pick one: Lets say Hawken).

Given how little momentum this game has going right now, I'm guessing deep down your answer is no.

These guys are the big Vancouver pump and dump, with a shiny property.

It's clear they place more value on brand prestige and monetizing MWO than development, since Paul clearly felt it necessary to engage LL vs. filling talent gaps; or even admitting his promote is way off from where the product is currently showcasing. We have yet to be given a simple abstract of when or what direction our MassiveMultiplay will take....

I think this is the key reason the forums are so vitrolic vs. Planetside 2, or even hell: Tribes Ascend, Warframe or Guildwars 2. Players do not want to believe they are being fooled some of the time, and they are upset at the symptoms of a bad product launch: ECW, NETCODE, PRESS FUCKUPS.

Then, as David Einhorn said, there are some of those who are fooled all of the time. These are the people who are keeping these threads open, and that is exactly why people are continuing to post and be angry about the MWO product.

Edited by Mikhalio, 16 January 2013 - 03:18 PM.

[PANZERBUNNY]

Liquid, you're right. Many people simply don't care about the game in a positive or negative way.

More don't care enough to post their discontent. They simply move onto other titles.

There are those who are happy, but those people, it hardly takes much to make them happy. Throw them a bone and they are happier than a pig in .....MC's...

So yes, the small % of the player base who come here are for the most part the most passionate and interactive part of the community.

IN my eyes.

[WolvesX]

Mikhalio, on 16 January 2013 - 03:06 PM, said:

As I said, one can pretty much estimate; in a similar manner done by all business analysts exactly what this company is doing, and what it is not doing. As most players who have contributed alot to PGI's closed beta often have nailed down the key details, one does not really need management one-on-one's to have an accurate picture of what is wrong, and what is going on at PGI.

If you, or other white knights do not want to accept that this project is rapidly imploding into a PR pump scheme, then so be it. Consider this an opinion, that has yet to be refuted.

The fact their communication and execution is in extreme disarray; ie. their joystick failed press strategy, the Living Legends debacle (Why have they not simply hired LL team, akin to when Gabe Newell was given the buyout option of the TF2 & Gearbox teams (Counterstrike?). This only furthers to cement my view that Paul is in way over his head, and it's only getting worse. You do not need to ask the fireman if there is a house on fire, if the windows are fogged with smoke and nobody is answering the door.
We are way past the foggy windows stage, and are seeing fire from the roof tiles now (missed patches, inconsistent schedule development, erratic project schedule).

Look, if you still think I am really bluffing google the following stories of developer studios that are in full internal meltdown

- Pandemic Studios
- KAOS Studios
- THQ (pick a studio, seriously; kotaku has boatloads of second-hand interviews).

All the studios share a common theme: Executive ego run amok, long paid holidays, fancy glamour digs, ****** workmanship, a history of pump & dump projects, rush work; limited developer reputation, and no publisher confidence because projects are all colossal promote vehicles with plenty of fan disappointment.


Just ask yourself.

If you were Paul, would this game in it's current form be considered a good investment ? Would you have honestly given yourself $120 bux for the opportunity to play in an 8-month demo, consisting of 8x4 premade mech renders, in a prebuilt engine, on 2 maps in 1 pvp mode of 8v8 ?

Would this even be considered a serious E3 best in show product if it was rolled out as a "open beta" this summer ? Would you honestly want your name attached to this product ?

When your project has just taken down at least 50,000 pre-paid accounts, would you really feel comfortable pumping and brand-flanking (LL) when your product does not even have one single "metagame" module installed in your "online" game ? Is this your key business task when your team is lacking key positions, and has not released a bug free patch in 4 months ?
Is your team properly allocating capital when your struggling to complete basic assets in twice as long as your closest peer (Pick one: Lets say Hawken).

Given how little momentum this game has going right now, I'm guessing deep down your answer is no.

These guys are the big Vancouver pump and dump, with a shiny property.

It's clear they place more value on brand prestige and monetizing MWO than development, since Paul clearly felt it necessary to engage LL vs. filling talent gaps; or even admitting his promote is way off from where the product is currently showcasing. We have yet to be given a simple abstract of when or what direction our MassiveMultiplay will take....

I think this is the key reason the forums are so vitrolic vs. Planetside 2, or even hell: Tribes Ascend, Warframe or Guildwars 2. Players do not want to believe they are being fooled some of the time, and they are upset at the symptoms of a bad product launch: ECW, NETCODE, PRESS FUCKUPS.

Then, as David Einhorn said, there are some of those who are fooled all of the time. These are the people who are keeping these threads open, and that is exactly why people are continuing to post and be angry about the MWO product.

Great post.

[Poopy Joe]

I am Very dispoined in this patch too.

Wheres the ECM fix,Or Phase 3 Matchmaking. So much for a "Big Patch"

[Valaska]

JSparrowist, on 15 January 2013 - 12:44 PM, said:

No more money for PGI. I now regret my MC purchases and my wallet is now officially closed to this piece of crap dev studio.

They don't listen to the community feedback and they don't fix problems.

**** this game!

I've pleged to not pay in any more MC, and I bought 120 off the bat and then some extra!

[Valaska]

Merlevade, on 16 January 2013 - 11:39 AM, said:

The Space Pope finds the average member of the mechwarrior community is usually fairly composed.

Instead, he suspects the problem has something to do with the insane amount of promises PGI sold the game with.

Conceivably, when you promise Community Warfare, various mechs, a functioning game and more; people do get rather frustrated when it appears that even basic stability and a functioning netcode are potentially far off.

That is not to say PGI might not have a number of great reasons or explanations for why features/bugs fixed/etc. have not been added, but usually the customer is not so much concerned with explanations but rather actual results.

A response would actually satiate me and allow me to start putting faith back into PGI.

[Cor Crusher]

I am just tired of the Lag, the 1/2 second delay on firing. It has made the game more frustrating than enjoyable. I know that this is BETA and issues like this will crop up, but to leave broken, no communication on updates or bug fixes is again frustrating.

[Max Immelmann]

once again, new material is added, and basic game play functions not addressed. not gonna list 'em again as it has been done ad nauseum.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Dunno if Id classify an anti infantry mech a s"real" added content imo

[Mikhalio]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 16 January 2013 - 09:42 PM, said:

Dunno if Id classify an anti infantry mech a s"real" added content imo

Only reason I can theorycraft as to why they added the commando is that as a mech, with limited torso twist; it plays most closely to the COD style FPS. This makes it a good "intro" mech for new players who have no concept of heat, heat management, torso twisting or weapon grouping. But they do want to learn the game, and value add in some way (hence ECW support role) and their limited DPS means nigh impossible to run hot.