168 replies to this topic

[Egomane]

Nowhere on the MW:LL site did I see PGI or IGP mentioned as the initiator or even participant in the shutdown. A thread in their forum, accusing PGI of such was quickly shut down.

As long as I don't see further proof, I'll go with: Not guilty until proven otherwise!

I really hope that no one of those, throwing accusations around here, is a judge in real life.

[Loc Nar]

[Purplefluffybunny]

Egomane, on 16 January 2013 - 10:39 AM, said:

Nowhere on the MW:LL site did I see PGI or IGP mentioned as the initiator or even participant in the shutdown. A thread in their forum, accusing PGI of such was quickly shut down.

As long as I don't see further proof, I'll go with: Not guilty until proven otherwise!

I really hope that no one of those, throwing accusations around here, is a judge in real life.

Thing is three Devs from MWLL have gone on the record, so to speak, stating that, for want of a better term, 'forceful' emails were sent quite a while ago. One email, I believe, talked about not copying ideas from on MWO into MWLL.

Also http://www.mechlivin...-release-0-7-0/ and this line.

"we are, as of this point, no longer allowed to create future content based on the MechWarrior IP due to legal obligations on behalf of various rights holders. These rights holders own the Legally Binding, Non-Transferrable, Non-Commercial License Agreement with Microsoft"

Therefore, my delightful mod, we can see who did what. As has been boasted by devs on NGNG broadcasts, we all know who holds this legally binding non-transferable non-commercial license agreement.

Edited by Purplefluffybunny, 16 January 2013 - 10:48 AM.

[Egomane]

So they say! But as long as we don't see those mails, they are only throwing accusations without proof.

[thalamus]

I suspect that the beginning of the open beta, someone had a chat with the MW:LL devs and they agreed upon ceasing development in 2013. Doesn't have to be PGI; I mean, isn't Piranha the publisher? Or have there still been any ties to MS?

[Purplefluffybunny]

OK One of the Project Directors (Defender) had this to say Egomane,

""Legal Obligations" implies that our license, the one stated in the post, is null and void when the ownership disavows their support of the team.

Mechwarrior: Living Legends is a team under Wandering Samurai, owned by Criminal and Kamikazi, who work at Crytek, who license CE3 to PGI. Once they decided they didn't want to continue supporting development our license is technically by all measures revoked, which means we cannot continue development since Crim and Kami are the licensees of Mechwarrior, not MWLL Developers and there would undoubtedly be messy legal action if development were to continue.

It's no slight on them. If they don't want any potential legal issues to possibly affect their professional lives, that's their choice. If it wasn't for them this game wouldn't even be here right now. PGI didn't give us a legal CnD but you can come to your own conclusions based on what's already been stated here. Yes, they passive-aggressively told us to get out of the pool, and in turn our leadership did so, which was their choice to make. "

http://forum.mechliv...,18934.135.html

So at least you have a corporate entity who holds all the rights passively aggressively shutting down a mod project because people fear legal prosecution. I bet you some of that passive aggressive behavior also includes emails. TBH the emails seem lesser evidence given what defender has now said.

Edited by Purplefluffybunny, 16 January 2013 - 10:53 AM.

[thalamus]

From Defender on MW:LL forums:

Quote

[color=#000000]"Legal Obligations" implies that our license, the one stated in the post, is null and void when the ownership disavows their support of the team. [/color]

[color=#000000]Mechwarrior: Living Legends is a team under Wandering Samurai, owned by Criminal and Kamikazi, who work at Crytek, who license CE3 to PGI. Once they decided they didn't want to continue supporting development our license is technically by all measures revoked, which means we cannot continue development since Crim and Kami are the licensees of Mechwarrior, not MWLL Developers and there would undoubtedly be messy legal action if development were to continue.[/color]


[color=#000000]It's no slight on them. If they don't want any potential legal issues to possibly affect their professional lives, that's their choice. If it wasn't for them this game wouldn't even be here right now. PGI didn't give us a legal CnD but you can come to your own conclusions based on what's already been stated here. Yes, they passive-aggressively told us to get out of the pool, and in turn our leadership did so, which was their choice to make.[/color]

Ah, someone was quicker.

Edited by thalamus, 16 January 2013 - 10:53 AM.

[Adridos]

thalamus, on 16 January 2013 - 10:17 AM, said:

Anyway. As soon as I get my hands back on my copy of Crysis wars, I'm going to reinstall MW:LL and have a couple of evenings on Huntress or Funbocks, on foot, on wheels, 'Mechlegs and airborne; in high-G, low-G, cities, deserts, and planes.

Wasn't Huntress closed/shut down or something like that?

[Dirus Nigh]

Wow. Im stunned, and yet that small cynical part of me is not surprised.

MWLL is/was one of the best mech games ever created. As mod it was the reigning champion. It is a real blow to battletech fans. I was thoroughly impressed by the tactical and strategic dynamics the developers created with MWLL. The only game that I played heavily that came close to the depth of MWLL is Battlefield 2.

In time I could see MWLL coming close to what the ARMA IP has achieved, just on a smaller scale.

MWLL is the gold standard of what a mod can achieve.

I fervently hope that the guys find a new project that they can pore their hearts into like this one. I hope that PGI can hire more of them.

George Lucas would have never done this. People rant and rave about what he did with/to Star Wars. However no matter what you think about the movies you can always admire and respect Lucas for his appreciation and support of his fans. There are a ton of fan created content for his IP. It could be an industry with in it'self. Yet Lucas let fans do what ever they wanted. They made movies, comics, videos, artwork, mods of other games almost as in depth as MWLL. Yet he let them all do it because he new they loved his IP. He let people do it so long as they did not profit or plagiarize his IP.

If only Microsoft, IGP/PGI or who ever was the cause of MWLL to be shut down could have that kind of perspective.

I never saw MWLL as an out right competitor to MWO. I saw it like MWT. Another Battletech game that would strengthen the fan base. It would keep the IP going even if main stream gaming left it behind. This is truelly a loss to gaming as a whole.

I hope the developers of MWLL find a new project that sparks the same level of passion as MWLL.

IGP/PGI should really take a hard look at MWLL and emulate what made that a great Mechwarrior title. They should hire more if the developers for MWO as well.

RIP MWLL.

[SquareSphere]

Adridos, on 16 January 2013 - 10:56 AM, said:

Wasn't Huntress closed/shut down or something like that?

Huntress was shut down a few months ago

[Egomane]

I have read that post of Defender, twice, and I still see no proof, only hints of an accusation. It also mentioned that it were Criminal and Kamikazi who no longer wanted to pursue the development. Nowhere does it say it is because PGI told them to stop.

The follow up post by KorJax even said, that PGI asked nicely and that there was an agreement.

[Purplefluffybunny]

Egomane, on 16 January 2013 - 11:07 AM, said:

I have read that post of Defender, twice, and I still see no proof, only hints of an accusation. It also mentioned that it were Criminal and Kamikazi who no longer wanted to pursue the development. Nowhere does it say it is because PGI told them to stop.

The follow up post by KorJax even said, that PGI asked nicely and that there was an agreement.

He cleared some of it up in the thread I linked too. He does, by implicature, state that PGI were the drivers and that the project was brought to a close as a result of such a drive. He also states that PGI's wish could be forced through given both work for crytek and that if they did not desist development, they would face legal issues. He is pretty much to the point here with minimal hinting.

Edited by Purplefluffybunny, 16 January 2013 - 11:11 AM.

[Dirus Nigh]

SquareSphere, on 16 January 2013 - 11:05 AM, said:

Huntress was shut down a few months ago

Damn. That is the server every one plays on.

[Egomane]

You said it: He implies!

I can imply anything I want all day long, it doesn't have to be true though.

Look, I'm not telling you that it isn't a sad thing the project was shut down. It is a sad thing! I'm only saying: Do not judge until prove is provided. An implied accusation is not neccessarily truth.

Edited by Egomane, 16 January 2013 - 11:14 AM.

[Purplefluffybunny]

Egomane, on 16 January 2013 - 11:07 AM, said:

The follow up post by KorJax even said, that PGI asked nicely and that there was an agreement.

No matter how politely or nicely asked it was still a request that could not be refused due to the fear and threat of legal prosecution and job security.

EDIT: OH, by implicature earlier I was referring to reading Defender's posts having heard PGI on NGNG stating precisely what rights they owned.

Edited by Purplefluffybunny, 16 January 2013 - 11:22 AM.

[mekabuser]

beyond belief..
I trust the official response.... wait .,. no i dont..
Someone went crying to microsoft..
Split the community... lol.. what a child..
I doubt mwo will ever be able to catch up to what mwll achieved.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Dirus Nigh, on 16 January 2013 - 11:03 AM, said:

MWLL is the gold standard of what a mod can achieve.

*cough*CounterStrike*cough*cough*

If MechWarrior: Living Legends wasn't created based on somebody else's IP, then it never would have been shutdown. It doesn't matter if PGI/IGP/Anyone was aggressive, passive, polite, or friendly... When Microsoft leased the rights to Day1 Studios for them to make Mech Assault, there was no internet/online function for the game, there was no reason to pull any plugs on LL. Now that Microsoft has leased the exclusive rights to a company that's making an online/internet-based competitive game, then it is perfectly reasonable for someone want the non-official, non-licensed product to cease development.

I do not know who started what in terms of stopping the development of MWLL. I don't know if PGI/IGP/Microsoft/anyone send anyone an email at any time. I am, however, not surprised from a legal or business standpoint that this happened. (edit - I don't know anything about the inside dealings that transpired.. again, just saying that)

Like I said, BattleTech is an established IP that people own. If somebody had made a game called WalkingTanks: Living Legends, then nothing would have happened to it. I am not voicing any "official support" for anyone on this issue, but I am saying that it makes sense for the legal rights-owners to have exclusive rights to make a product for the market that uses owned IP.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 16 January 2013 - 11:22 AM.

[Garrond]

A sad day indeed. There goes one of the best mods I've ever seen. I'm proud to have made a donation back then when I played it. They deserve every bit. And i'm pretty sure they inspired PGI in many ways.

[SquareSphere]

Purplefluffybunny, on 16 January 2013 - 11:19 AM, said:

No matter how politely or nicely asked it was still a request that could not be refused due to the fear and threat of legal prosecution and job security.

It's not worth arguing with Ego on this one PFB. He's correct in that implication does not equal "truth". Let people come to their own conclusions.

[Cik]

Egomane, on 16 January 2013 - 11:14 AM, said:

You said it: He implies!

I can imply anything I want all day long, it doesn't have to be true though.

Look, I'm not telling you that it isn't a sad thing the project was shut down. It is a sad thing! I'm only saying: Do not judge until prove is provided. An implied accusation is not neccessarily truth.

oh please. the words are there plain as day. whether you refuse to remove your blinders is your own concern.