63 replies to this topic

[icey]

1. increase lockon time for SSRM (but not LRM)
2. dramatically narrow lockon cone size - make it not much broader than a tag
3. instantly lose SSRM lock as soon as LOS is lost

if a RVN-2X/4X or COM-1*/3A can't beat a streak bot 2D/3L more than about 20-30% of the time, streaks are probably still overpowered.

[CancR]

Dropping missile damage down to 1 is how you keep the spirt of the TT rule with out breaking the code any more then it already is.

[Splinters]

Streaks are a little tough for non-streak lights to survive against, it essentially is an arm's race compared to old SRMs.

Balancing streaks is tricky business as I can see all types of unintended consequences due to SSRM tweaking, specifically how much worse it will get when clan's arrive with SSRM6's.

The a few suggestions for streaks usage. #1) streaks won't start lock until your under 270m (lock-ons to targets seem to go as far as 1k currently). #2) Make the lock-on tighter than just the pug outline box. #3) Let streaks lock on inside an ECM, just increase the time to lock on to by 25% so there is a slight advantage, but not an overwhelming one. #4) Let streaks lock-on a target even if the target isn't selected.

The 4th one may be very challenging from a coding perspective, but it would get rid a large portion of ECM complaints if Medium and Heavy mechs can lock on still without anti-ECM in effect.

-S

[focuspark]

Problem with SSRM lock range is that it's the same mechanism as LRM. Better to just make both straight fire weapons (with no lock on) and find some other way to make them work as intended.

There was a suggestion in another thread for the client to do a ray cast with prediction to determine if SSRM would hit before allowing them to fire. If the player would miss, then the targeting computer would not allow the SSRM to fire.

[Jale]

I realize this isn't LRM post, but i would suggest to make LRM travels faster and do reduced dmg

Edited by Jale, 21 January 2013 - 12:04 PM.

[focuspark]

Jale, on 21 January 2013 - 12:03 PM, said:

I realize this isn't LRM post, but i would suggest to make LRM travels faster and do reduced dmg

And less accurate while allowing LRM to completely ignore ECM.

[Morang]

Another suggestion:


Make ECM in "disrupt" mode have equal effect on both friendly and enemy mechs inside the 180-200 m bubble.

So: friendly mech in the bubble (including ECM carrier) will also be invisible for teammates on battlegrid and lose battlegrid info and ability to lock targets. Enemy mechs in the bubble will also be protected from locks outside 200 m.

So ECM will remain useful, but turning ECM on/off will be a lot harder tactical decision to make. There will be no unnatural "friendly ECM" or "enemy ECM" - just ECM jamming all frequencies. And "counter" mode to cancel it.

[focuspark]

Morang, on 21 January 2013 - 12:07 PM, said:

Another suggestion:


Make ECM in "disrupt" mode have equal effect on both friendly and enemy mechs inside the 180-200 m bubble.

So: friendly mech in the bubble (including ECM carrier) will also be invisible for teammates on battlegrid and lose battlegrid info and ability to lock targets. Enemy mechs in the bubble will also be protected from locks outside 200 m.

So ECM will remain useful, but turning ECM on/off will be a lot harder tactical decision to make. There will be no unnatural "friendly ECM" or "enemy ECM" - just ECM jamming all frequencies. And "counter" mode to cancel it.

This seems fair until you realize it forcibly put the ECM 'mech into a solo only mode.

[Morang]

focuspark, on 21 January 2013 - 12:09 PM, said:

This seems fair until you realize it forcibly put the ECM 'mech into a solo only mode.

Very much so - if he doesn't want to accept burden of teamwork with extensive communication.

[focuspark]

Morang, on 21 January 2013 - 12:24 PM, said:

Very much so - if he doesn't want to accept burden of teamwork with extensive communication.

Given that most players play without VOIP, that's exactly what would happen.

[CancR]

-Nerf damage to 1.5 damage a missle
-dramatically increase spread
-Make tag a requirement to be able to fire (is tag on the mech? Y: Fire N: Can't fire

[Kunae]

CancR, on 19 January 2013 - 12:02 AM, said:

Cool! Garth replied in my thread.

PLZ Nerf streaks into oblivion.

Just remove them entirely. Balancing problem resolved. Future balancing of CSSRMs, resolved.

[Roland]

Quote

Again using the PPC - yes it does the same damage, but it also causes the target to generate heat when hit

Pardon me? Since when do PPC's add heat to the target?

[CancR]

Kunae, on 22 January 2013 - 01:00 PM, said:

Just remove them entirely. Balancing problem resolved. Future balancing of CSSRMs, resolved.

Prehaps now isn't the time for streaks. That could be true.

[Theobald Hauser]

Yeah, remove Streaks, so mechs can't do anything AT ALL against überfast lagshielded teleporting now totally invincible light mechs.

Focuspark, people keep trying to explain it to you that non-guided LRMs are totally useless. I don't even can understand how you picture the whole thing in your head. They CAN'T go that way in a real time game. They will never, never, never hit something else than a 200m-away shutdown mech. That's even probably the reason they behave as they do now (perhaps a dev can have a word here ?).
And don't taunt people saying "You're not convincing me that Streaks aren't OP". Noone never will. Convince YOU, that is.

Even on the big picture I can't understand what the whole thing is about. Lights were crying that Streaks were not soft-counter enough against them, than comes the ECM that is a very, very, very hard counter to Streaks, and they instantly lose all faith in their said "for the balance" crusade. Surprising.

Except when the debate becomes " *whiiine* Light ecm mechs without streaks are so weak against ecm streaks ones !"
Wake up people. It's ALL the other mechs that can't do anything against light ecm mechs. And you're still advocating the nerf of their only now-near-useless weapon against all this stealth craziness

[Trucker]

I just want to say...

Lower damage of SSRM and SRM to 2 per missile instead of 2.5 that it is now. Seems like a nice little balancing act to me.

[Theobald Hauser]

Then they lose all purpose when not boating them. Which is already non-viable. It's not far from deleting them.
They are already not impacting the CT only, and you have NO possibility to target them better by skill, when on the other hand the opposing force CAN block them with their arms with little skill, that's already some balance.

[blinkin]

Morang, on 21 January 2013 - 12:07 PM, said:

Another suggestion:


Make ECM in "disrupt" mode have equal effect on both friendly and enemy mechs inside the 180-200 m bubble.

So: friendly mech in the bubble (including ECM carrier) will also be invisible for teammates on battlegrid and lose battlegrid info and ability to lock targets. Enemy mechs in the bubble will also be protected from locks outside 200 m.

So ECM will remain useful, but turning ECM on/off will be a lot harder tactical decision to make. There will be no unnatural "friendly ECM" or "enemy ECM" - just ECM jamming all frequencies. And "counter" mode to cancel it.

this would just be begging for giefing.

you do not want this type of mechanics on a game where all of the players on a team might not be within punching distance.

as far as streaks i think lock aquisition should be instantaneous and loss of lock should also be instantaneous. as it is they require very little skill to use. but i also think they should go for whatever component you have highlighted (with a little bit of spread or have the fire seperated out into a chain of single missiles)

i suppose i think they would be better as a laser guided weapon or something similar

Edited by blinkin, 22 January 2013 - 02:23 PM.

[MWHawke]

I'm kind of thinking the people who complain about Streaks are those who just run straight up to an enemy Mech blasting away hoping for a kill? That's why they keep getting hit in CT by Streaks. I noticed that trend in a lot of my games. They just run straight at their target as if this was Counter Strike.

[Theobald Hauser]

Mainly lights that are light-dancing in circle, I think. Which can't end well. And won't anyway when we'll finally be able to shoot direct fire weapons at them.