777 replies to this topic

[Void Angel]

With the new buffs to all the heavy beam weapons, I expect it to be viable to make an Atlas with a long-range combat build - I will in fact be doing just that once I finish my current projects. But if my Atlas build precludes me from fighting in direct combat, it'll be a bad build. =)

[Abivard]

A long range atlas should mean you are able to open fire sooner while you continue to CLOSE with the enemy. An atlas is to sluggish with arms too low slung for any kind of crest or corner sniping.

Long range snipers are better on Med/HVY mechs.

[Void Angel]

I have, in fact, gone to my promised LRM build with my Atlas It actually works pretty well. 3 LRM15s with two large lasers (I tried both kinds of PPC, but I didn't have space for the necessary heat sinks along with my ammunition for the LRMS) Doesn't have the brawling punch of my old build, but I still do substantial damage to anything lighter than myself, and the LRM15s put out a lot of damage.

I should stress that Abivard's observation is correct, though: the arms are much lower than your point of view from the cockpit, and will often be blocked by terrain that you can easily see over.

[Kmieciu]

Void Angel, on 18 February 2013 - 12:51 PM, said:

I have, in fact, gone to my promised LRM build with my Atlas It actually works pretty well. 3 LRM15s with two large lasers (I tried both kinds of PPC, but I didn't have space for the necessary heat sinks along with my ammunition for the LRMS) Doesn't have the brawling punch of my old build, but I still do substantial damage to anything lighter than myself, and the LRM15s put out a lot of damage.

I should stress that Abivard's observation is correct, though: the arms are much lower than your point of view from the cockpit, and will often be blocked by terrain that you can easily see over.

Swap the 2xLL for ERPPC+TAG. ERPPC for disabling the ECM, and TAG for MUCH more tighter grouping on LRMs. 2xLL is not enough to deal with a fast light mech anyway. If you manage to hit that ECM Raven with ERPPC as he is running towards you, 45 LRMs will ruin his day.

Edited by Kmieciu, 21 February 2013 - 12:55 AM.

[Void Angel]

Nah, I tried ERPPCs first; my ability to defend myself (and my overall heat efficiency) are much better with the Large Lasers - I may go to LRM20s+Artemis, but TAG just isn't worth giving up half of my energy hardpoints. I've also thought about using one ERPPC and one Large Laser, but right now I'm engaged in a scientific experiment to see if I can get all the Elite skills on my Spider before I die of an aneurysm.

Edited by Void Angel, 21 February 2013 - 04:17 PM.

[Splinters]

It's funny but there really isn't a way to train mechwarriors on how to fight. A lot of the timidity is because the tactics are so different from one group to another. One group tunnel rushes. Another group wants to wait at the ridge for any early pop-overs. Yet Another wants to go down 7 line. In most cases the lack of a Company/Drop Commander and the ridicule that goes with a lot of experienced guys not wanting to follow someone means that it's a disorganized mess at best. Typically we end up enforcing tactics by going 4 man and the other 4 follow us for lack of better options.

I agree with OP, but at the end we need more mechwarriors that understand tactics and how to utilize them as a group.

-S

[Void Angel]

That's what this thread, and the other one in my signature, are about. You can DO different things, but you need a baseline mindset in order to get everyone on the same page.

If you've got a lot of LRM boats and "snipers," you can do well playing Sniper Tag, for example - but you need to actually use your words and make a decision to do that, rather than have it develop accidentally because everyone is afraid of getting shot at.

Edited by Void Angel, 21 February 2013 - 05:36 PM.

[Geadron Kane]

It is funny that no matter how many times people are rolled over by a properly coordinated offensive with a small flanking maneuver they never seem to learn that you cannot pop in and out with an assault mech. Assaults are for those that can aim. Until you have at least 3 med or hvy leveled all the way to master should you be messing around with the big dogs. The faster you move the more chances you have to correct your mistakes....and that is why it is usually the light mechs that are the last to die. Assaults are meant to be the head of the spear so let them catch up, cover their backs, and give them good lines.

[Gunnisson]

I completely agree with the sentiment of the OP, being Timid in this game does not equal wins, sometimes you have to man up and head in.

However, I also have no issue with players holding back and letting the enemy come to them if they feel they have a better position.

The thing that I, and I'm sure many others, take issue with is those sorry, sorry Pilots that can't decide if they want to move up and engage or stand back, and instead pull off a wonderful back and forth exposing their head and upper torso to the enemy over the nap of the hill, taking steady damage whilst dealing none in return.

Sure enough, after a good few minutes of this pointless procedure, they've taken 25% damage and their torsos are in terrible shape, all for no gain except that they could at least see the enemy while they were getting chipped away at.


Indecisiveness ruins lives people.

[Hayashi]

Taking cover is a valid tactic, and a very important one, as basically any of the better non-Assault players would attest (Assaults are a bit different since they're meant to absorb damage). Not firing your weapons and just hiding will just get everybody killed.

[Jay Z]

The best cure for the cowardice or over-agression is experience. Not XP. Actual experience. I have always been a pilot of Jenners, however only recently have I had the gamesense and experience to make good ingame decisions leading to victories. For example, after each match (win or loss) I assess how I played.

Was my initial scouting run too agressive where I tried to TAG everyone cause me to take too much damage and die early?

Was I too timid to wander from the main group and miss the tunnel push?

Was I too busy capping to back up the Assault mechs or vice versa (this can go either way on a case by case basis)?

Thank you OP for a great thread and also those that have contributed positively.

[KillerLeo]

Totally agreed with the OP. As an assault pilot I dont have a problem with going over a hill or ridge and die guns blazing as long my lancemates have the chance of go in and destroy our enemies, and maybe taking at least one with me or causing some serious damage. But its just sad they all run away and leave me to die, only to be picked off later one by one. Cant stress this enough: If you have an Assault Mech in your team (and more so if its an Atlas) keep close to it, support it, and for God's sake, when it engages in battle you go with him and shoot what he is shooting at, or at least try to flank said enemies but dont cower behind the hill. Dont worry 90% of the time no one will mind you, they will be busy shooting at your big friend, thats his job. And in the strange event that they dont focus on the atlas and start shooting at you or the other lighter mechs...is ok too, cuz the Atlas is going to beat the crap out of them, believe me the few times when enemies ignore me in my atlas or got the jump on them (yep its rare but i have done it) the amount of punishment i deal out is amazing...

Also I agree with someone that said that Assault mechs are for experienced pilots, lighters mechs are easier to play. Im Elite Founder and chose Atlas as my mech....always have loved it in all Mechwarrior games. Boy has it been a rough ride, since its true if u make a mistake on an atlas, it will 99% get u killed, and sometimes your team too. Also u need a lot of skill to be able to fire while under heavy fire. Only after I started palying with Stalker and Awesome, I noticed how easy it became for me to shoot at mechs! I dont get shot as much as when im an atlas! Its nice to be able to pop out and not being the one getting shot at all the time hahaha.

[GhostFacedNinja]

I love my LRM atlas builds. Taking LRMs without taking a decent compliment of energy weapons is ******** on any mech, Atlas included. Be that lasers or (ER)PPCs.
What people get wrong is that they think because they are packing LRMs they should hang back on their own. You can be an LRM Atlas and still be a tank. An Atlas shooting LRMs pulls enemies towards it like flies to dog ****. Use this to your advantage.

[Void Angel]

Right now I'm using 45 LRMs, one Large Laser, and an ERPPC on my D-DC Atlas, to good effect. I can rain down destruction from afar, but I still do enough damage to smaller 'mechs to make them think twice about just running at me in most cases - particularly since my ECM makes it hard for them to determine my precise loadout.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

I take pride in being able to shrug off damage in my Centurion AL, I play as an LRM boat (2 x 15's w/ Artemis), 5 tons of ammo, 2 Medium Lasers, TAG and an XL 275 Engine.

I am a TON more flexible with a top speed of about 99kph due to speed tweak. But the thing is, while I occasionally have that "Damn lucky shot" blow up moment, most of the time I can pop out take some hits and rain down fury.

The most important thing is to not freak out, I can't count the number of times where a non-ecm light (and rarely ECM lights) has closed in on me, and I just keep moving while targetting someone beyond 180m and lighting them up. Then a lot of times a teammate will help kill the light before I die.

Edited by Nicholas Carlyle, 27 February 2013 - 08:55 AM.

[Hackett]

in my 3xERPPC AWS-9M, I used to follow the OP's advice. I was an assault, I existed to soak damage and be a distraction for the heavies dishing damage. So I'd lead the charge up and over the ridge. But I died every mission, often quickly.

Slowly I figured out that this strategy, while fine on paper, wasn't going to work. Even though AWS is an assault, I do better now playing it as support, using cover as much as possible, trying to catch an enemy out of position or luring them out of cover.

Maybe that makes me timid, but I've been getting more wins and more dmg this way.

[Atomic Funk]

"Its a game guys". Every change brings a new challenge, and its up to each player, each team to best decide how his play style will be defined. If you don't like the "cowards", come up with tactics to flush em out or negate their contribution to the battle. If its someone on YOUR team, then maybe its time to join a group who knows how to play, or you can shoot em in the back and be done with them.. If you play with PUGS, PUG performance you will get.

[1BigFool]

Taking cover to avoid a rain of missles is one thing. Taking cover and not coming out is another.

Had one guy running a Stalker in a match 2-3 weeks ago. He stayed in the streambed in the forest colony the whole match. Wouldn't move. He was the last one. The remaining 6 mechs on the other team were converging on his position. The spectators were telling him to MOVE and fire. Perhaps he could have done some damage. His response, "But I'm a missile boat!" He stayed.

They found him and destroyed him.

[Void Angel]

Fri Hjert, on 28 February 2013 - 06:11 PM, said:

"Its a game guys". Every change brings a new challenge, and its up to each player, each team to best decide how his play style will be defined. If you don't like the "cowards", come up with tactics to flush em out or negate their contribution to the battle. If its someone on YOUR team, then maybe its time to join a group who knows how to play, or you can shoot em in the back and be done with them.. If you play with PUGS, PUG performance you will get.

You are so right! Throwing up my hands and trolling constructive conversations is indeed an option. Alternatively, I could start conversations intended to raise the awareness of tactical issues so that fewer new players fall into that trap. I can see the path you've chosen; can you guess mine?

Particularly with the Elo system, this will become important. Elo means that I don't have to throw in the towel and spout cynical nonsense about "pug performance." I can instead focus on encouraging proper tactics in every match in order to rise to a level where everyone is willing to understand basic tactics. I'd like to take some people with me - why do you want me to leave them behind?

[Void Angel]

Hackett, on 28 February 2013 - 02:35 PM, said:

in my 3xERPPC AWS-9M, I used to follow the OP's advice. I was an assault, I existed to soak damage and be a distraction for the heavies dishing damage. So I'd lead the charge up and over the ridge. But I died every mission, often quickly.

Slowly I figured out that this strategy, while fine on paper, wasn't going to work. Even though AWS is an assault, I do better now playing it as support, using cover as much as possible, trying to catch an enemy out of position or luring them out of cover.

Maybe that makes me timid, but I've been getting more wins and more dmg this way.

That's not really following my advice. =) You were playing a long-range sniper build and charging into close quarters with it. Long range builds necessitate long-range play to a certain degree. What this thread tells you is to not sit back and refuse to maneuver simply because you are "a sniper." You need to move from cover to cover in order to project your presence onto the battlefield by way of charged particle injection. If you charge in with only 3 heat-inefficient PPCs... Well, you've got more armor, but your firepower is the equivalent of a Cataphract jump-sniper. It might take longer for you than him, but you'll both get stomped flat in a brawl.

Being a long-range assault also allows you to beat on people at long range knowing that they'll have to back off before you do - unless you're too exposed. People know that they're not going to like slugging it out with you, so you can trade cover for battlefield presence in order to force the enemy to hunker down in their holes (or expose their back to your brawlers in the main fight to charge you.) Like most tactical decisions, it's more art than science... But it may help you to know that I'm currently using an Atlas D-DC with 20 Artemis LRM20s, an ERPPC, and a Large laser. =)

Edited by Void Angel, 28 February 2013 - 09:19 PM.