183 replies to this topic

[Tice Daurus]

Tice Daurus, on 22 January 2013 - 11:47 AM, said:

I am an Awesome master of the 8Q, the 8T and the 9M. I'm also thinking of trading my 8T for an 8R.

I've run awesomes for months now. And if you know how to pilot one, you can be highly effective as a mech killer. But it still stands to reason that the Awesome still has it's problems. The main problem...speed.

The 8 series is nerfed with only a 290 engine. That's less than a 1 MP upgrade. At best, the Awesome should be allowed to go to at least a 320 engine. I'm not advocating for an 400 engine, although that would be great to have, but I'm not holding my breath that this will ever happen again. But to give it at least a 320. That's fair. Nerfing the Awesome to a 290 handicaps the Awesome badly. Otherwise if you do see an Awesome, all you will ever see is 3 variants, the 8Q, 8R and the 9M.

However...the thing that will SAVE the Awesome is coming soon...PPC/ER PPC heat nerfs and EMP effect for the PPC/ER PPC which would give HUD disruption and possible electrical damage to equipment. This...PLUS if they can fix the advanced zoom would do WONDERS for the Awesome.

http://mwomercs.com/...ased-i-say-yes/

I put this out there so we could vote and suggest for a possible increase in speed for the Suggestions area.

[Lightfoot]

Saying I did this, I did that, in an Awesome is kind of irrelavent to, is the mech balanced with the other Assaults? I have had good matches in an Awesome too and as far as the current PPCs go, good luck. Some matches they work, other matches, no damage from most shots.

I think bottom line, if the Devs don't fix the Awesome after all these posts for all these months,... this has been put forth since closed beta, except we all thought DHS 2.0 would do alot for the Awesomes problems, so we waited and got DHS 1.4 for our patience. Well then they just don't like the Awesome and they love the Atlas and Stalker. So it looks like Atlas Online for now.

Just want you to know I mastered the Awesome 2-3 times in Closed Beta and always believed it would get the fixxes it obviously needs, but nothing happens, the months drag on and the mech is still underperforming for an Assault. It moves slow like and Assault, an Atlas can out-turn it, so it is not this whippy manuvering mech, it's just engine size. But the Awesome does have the biggest CT in MWO that anyone can hit from across the map and it's loadouts are the worst of any Assault. It overheats, can't even run stock configurations correctly with a full load of DHS 1.4. It's a joke. If this game is really based on Battletech then make the Awesome work correctly.

[FerretGR]

Holy novel... sorry, this came out way longer than it seemed! Must be the multiquotes. tl;dr: I ge why you don't like the AWS, I just disagree and have a different opinion

Lightfoot, on 22 January 2013 - 11:37 AM, said:

I know I can load up LRMs on my Awesomes and get the damage up to the 70's, but most of the damage from LRM is wasted, hitting places it doesn't need too. When my Cataphract shows 67, it's all hitting one spot.. I hope.

Nobody said anything about LRMs.

Lightfoot, on 22 January 2013 - 11:37 AM, said:

Armor point values mean very little, it's hitbox size that determines how fragile a mech is.

I disagree. A good shot is going to hit the center of the CT of any mech in this game. Given that, how much armor you have on that location becomes very important. Can you say you have problems hitting the CT of a Stalker or Cat, for example? You can hit those from 90 degrees.

Lightfoot, on 22 January 2013 - 11:37 AM, said:

You know the hitbox size is seperate from what you see in the game, right? That's why the Atlas doesn't explode on the first crossfire encounter. That's why it staggers through wave after wave of multiple alpha strikes. If all those attacks hitting the visual CT were hitting the hitbox CT the Atlas would be toast. No one would use it.

I'm not trying to be obtuse here, I'm just trying to clarify what you mean: do you mean that the hitbox is not what we see lit up in mechlab? If so, then yes, I do know that. I understand what you're saying, that the Awesome has a large CT hitbox and the Atlas a smaller one. It' been said and agreed on 100 times. And yes, this is part of the reason why an Atlas can stagger through alphas from other mechs: it experiences a spread of damage over its CT, LT, and RT. But the 96 points of CT armor help with that as well, if we're being honest.

Lightfoot, on 22 January 2013 - 11:37 AM, said:

The actual equation you want is armor points divided by hitbox size = durability.

The math would only be that simple of there was 100% chance that every shot hits the centre torso. In reality, at distance, with both mechs moving, and a good Awesome pilot using his unarmed arm as a shield and moving his torso to spread damage, the total armor is a bigger factor, imho. The reality is that it isn't that simple.

Consider this example: I'm trying to snipe a moving target at 600m. One is a 9M moving at 80 kph and one is a Hunchie moving at the same speed. Even if we're liberal and say that the Awesome's hitbox is twice as big as the Hunchie's, at this distance, sniping with any weapon, you're talking about two tiny spaces. The difficulty of the shot is going to mean the size of the Awesome's hitbox is nearly eliminated. Doubling the size of the hitbox doesn't mean doubling the damage it's going to take: there are many other factors that impact or limit that.

Lightfoot, on 22 January 2013 - 12:00 PM, said:

All I am really pointing out is that the Awesome is too easy to kill to be an Assault.

Well, yes, you're right, to a certain extent, but that's not the fault of the Awesome, that's the fault of the class system and of the matchmaker that uses only that class system to make matches. If dropping in the Awesome didn't mean the opposition got an Atlas in many cases, this problem of comparing it with mechs 20 tons larger would go away.

Lightfoot, on 22 January 2013 - 12:00 PM, said:

To even be in MWO really. It dies like a slow moving medium mech.

Now you're being ridiculous. The mech compares favorably to other mechs close to its tonnage despite its cons. It compares favorably to mediums. If you really believe that you have never met a decent Awesome pilot.

Lightfoot, on 22 January 2013 - 12:00 PM, said:

The 8R is impressive until it meets a bigger or better piloted SRM boat. Still I have taken them out in Cataphract and a Centurion actually.

Lightfoot, on 22 January 2013 - 01:29 PM, said:

Saying I did this, I did that, in an Awesome Cataphract and a Centurion is kind of irrelavent to

Oh?

Lightfoot, on 22 January 2013 - 12:00 PM, said:

is the mech balanced with the other Assaults?

...and we're back to the problem of the Awesome not being the Awesome, but that it's matched with the Atlas by the matchmaker. I've talked about how it balances against the Stalker and the Cataphract, the mechs closest to it in tonnage, and I think it compares favorably. You obviously disagree. That's cool.

Lightfoot, on 22 January 2013 - 12:00 PM, said:

Just want you to know I mastered the Awesome 2-3 times in Closed Beta and always believed it would get the fixxes it obviously needs, but nothing happens, the months drag on and the mech is still underperforming for an Assault. It moves slow like and Assault, an Atlas can out-turn it, so it is not this whippy manuvering mech, it's just engine size. But the Awesome does have the biggest CT in MWO that anyone can hit from across the map and it's loadouts are the worst of any Assault. It overheats, can't even run stock configurations correctly with a full load of DHS 1.4. It's a joke. If this game is really based on Battletech then make the Awesome work correctly.

I do agree that the Awesome could use some love, that DHS fixed would help it as an energy-heavy mech, that stock AWS configurations don't work, but beyond that, it's the same old stuff that's already been discussed and agreed on or disagreed with, and it's just your personal opinion that the AWS sucks. That's fine, but don't pretend like it's objectively true. Nobody's pretending like AWS doesn't have a drawback or two. But you name any mech and I'll give you a list of drawbacks. Whether they outweigh those of the AWS is up to you.

After this bit, though, I'm starting to wonder about the "dying like a medium" bit.

Edited by FerretGR, 22 January 2013 - 04:07 PM.

[BunnyWabbit]

GalaxyBluestar, on 22 January 2013 - 12:03 AM, said:

try
STD290
5medlaser 2 medpulselaser
Endo
38 SH
maxed armour
HE = 1.37? i've sold it off ages back
but max dps is 4.63 as apposed to 3.94.

it takes only a second to move closer if range bothers you and the enemy will do the same to you anyways packing ac20's srms etc. a great harraser with chain fire.

The only problem I find with this build is that there are other mechs who can brawl better than that namely the 9m for starters. The reason I wanted to go with 6ll or 6ppcs and suggested it was because only the stalker can actually do that and the awesome can do it while moving slightly quicker. Personally I dont make any mechs that are so called "all arounders" because I find against specialized mechs they get roasted real quick. He said it was viable so Ill have to check out the 6ll build and if it doesnt work ill go with 6ppcs. I like playing my 9M so much I want to unlock the elite tree for it but was worried it would be horrible considering I felt the rest of the awesomes couldnt do anything that a different mech couldnt do better.

[Lightfoot]

@FerretGR

No, seriously the toughness of a mech is purely how fast it moves, and, armor points divided by hitbox size of vital mech sections. In Closed Beta I used to Headshot Atlas's with ease, then they made the head hitbox much smaller and now the Atlas is almost immune to being Headshot. It's the same with the Center Torso. It's not the few extra armor points the Atlas gets, it's the tiny CT hitbox that makes it so tough.

And I think the main problem with the Awesome is that it's CT hitbox is too easy to hit for an Assault. Some players put a giant engine in it and run around like a medium mech with a medium laser array/SRM4 array, thereby shrinking the CT hitbox with speed, but that is NOT the Battletech Awesome, my second main point. That is a medium mech loadout and role.

Edited by Lightfoot, 22 January 2013 - 09:28 PM.

[FerretGR]

Lightfoot, on 22 January 2013 - 09:27 PM, said:

No, seriously the toughness of a mech is purely how fast it moves, and, armor points divided by hitbox size of vital mech sections. In Closed Beta I used to Headshot Atlas's with ease, then they made the head hitbox much smaller and now the Atlas is almost immune to being Headshot. It's the same with the Center Torso. It's not the few extra armor points the Atlas gets, it's the tiny CT hitbox that makes it so tough.

Saying "no seriously" doesn't make it true. There is no "formula" for toughness, and if we were to quantify it, it'd be much more complicated than (armor/hitbox size). Consider an extreme example. Imagine you're trying to hit a target 500m away that has a surface area of 1 cm^2. Now consider another target at 500m with a surface area of 2 cm^2. Both shots are going to be quite difficult, and it's obvious that the second isn't going to get a doubling of the damage of the first simply because it has twice the surface area. You won't see twice as many shots hitting the larger target. Our ability to hit the target is a factor of more than just the size of the target.

And you can say "it is this and it's not that" all you like, but likewise, that doesn't make it true. The CT of an Awesome has 60 points max. The CT of an Atlas has 92 points max. That's a significant increase and if you don't think that's a significant part of the survivability factor, I've got a bridge to sell you.

At any rate, I'm not trying to argue that the Awesome is as tough as an Atlas. There's no debate there. It's got 20 tons on an Awesome. Your entire argument boils down to this, as far as I can see: the Awesome is no Atlas. In other news, water is wet. But it does highlight the problem of the class system as it exists: it doesn't discriminate precisely enough. Dropping with an AWS should bring something closer to it in tonnage or BV than an Atlas. There should either be more divisions than the big 4 from the perspective of the matchmaker or there should be another way to make matches.

Lightfoot, on 22 January 2013 - 09:27 PM, said:

And I think the main problem with the Awesome is that it's CT hitbox is too easy to hit for an Assault. Some players put a giant engine in it and run around like a medium mech with a medium laser array/SRM4 array, thereby shrinking the CT hitbox with speed, but that is NOT the Battletech Awesome, my second main point. That is a medium mech loadout and role.

So let me get this straight... you're saying the Awesome has a large CT hitbox? Just want to clarify because it's not like it's been said 600 times.

Again, your discussion of role is too simplified, and it's not your fault, it's the fault of the overly simplistic 4 classes as they stand now. The reality of role warfare is that there are a much wider variety of roles to be played on the battlefield: scout, skirmish, snipe, long range support, fast strike brawl, slow brawl, and so on. It's silly to say that "all assaults should be front line brawlers" when in reality there are a wide variety of roles that each mech in each weight class can play, and this is especially true given that within the assault class we find a wide variety of mechs. With my AWS I can be a sniper, I can be a fast strike mech, I can be long range support, I can brawl, etc. Customization is one of the best things about this game, and it allows us to build mechs that fulfill a wide variety of roles. These roles are defined by the user, the loadout, etc, and not simply by tonnage. The mech you describe, 9M kitted with MLs, is a fast strike brawler. Are you saying that only mediums can be fast brawlers? Why? In canon, there are fast strike assaults: http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Charger

You discuss the Battletech Awesome as if the Battletech ANYTHING exists around here. Everybody customizes everything. That said, I have a PPC AWS that's very close to its TT role. And the bottom line is who cares? I customize it to play a role in this game, not in TT.

Anyhow, I'm just saying things I've already said to a certain extent. You objections boil down to two things: your obsession with the size of the CT hitbox, which I've agreed is problematic but disagreed with the level of the problem, and your obsession with roles being based on classes, which I argue is far too simplistic a view of role warfare, at least in this game. I understand where you're coming from so there's no need to repeat it, which is what the last couple of posts have felt like.

[Mazzyplz]

guys the last patch really affected my play with the awesome... this is a match i JUST played with my 8R, i shut down for like 10 seconds with a cataphract shooting me... i don't know how i survived, patch might have made the AWS a little bit tougher but it's not much help when i can't power up for such a long time...

i only did 600 dmg because i was stationary about 10 seconds of the match in the middle of the fight... but i still managed to outscore most other guys except that guy diablo on his atlas, who got 3 kills like me but really kicked some arse (well it was a low damage match anyway)

i killed 1 hunchback, 1 atlas 1 cataphract and my ppcs pounded on another atlas and a slow moving raven (why a raven would move slowly is beyond me, he ate ppc and missiles but another guy got the kill)

oh and PS. <the screenshots work if you alt enter into window mode and then print screen!, finally tested it and it works>

Edited by Mazzyplz, 24 January 2013 - 07:33 AM.

[Amped Lightning]

I find that the awesome is too wide. Especially for my dual gauss cataphract set up. they're just so easy to hit. It's so much harder to hit somethign like the catapult or the stalker when they're facing me. So many times I've taken an awesome one on one and come out on top. Atlas is far superior when it comes to taking and dealing damage.

[Lightfoot]

I think you are seeing a few more Awesomes right now because players are finishing up leveling it to Master after the Double XP weekend. I got to Master on the Awesome today and I am mothballing all 3 Awesomes I own including the 9M, so you won't be seeing me in an Awesome again.

Something about the last patch made the Awesome so much more easy to kill, I guess no one ever misses the CT now. Hey, the Light mechs are exploding like popcorn, I guess if everyone can hit Lights now, then they surely can't miss the Awesome's "broadside of a barn" CT either.

Awesome Beta Testing concluded.

[Mazzyplz]

Lightfoot, on 24 January 2013 - 12:56 PM, said:

Something about the last patch made the Awesome so much more easy to kill

maybe it's cause they shut down and cannot power back up...

it isn't weaker this patch, if anything they made it a tiny bit more durable IMO

[Gryfalia]

As I said to my regiment folks, ECM should have gone on the Awesome instead of the Atlas. The Atlas was already a popular mech that didn't need a boost. The Awesome is an OK mech (that I personally love driving) that would have found a much better place in the world with the ECM.

[NRP]

There is speculation that a recent patch changed the heat retention characteristics of mechs. Some of us feel our mechs are retaining heat a bit longer than before, so we're getting the "heat warning" message and shutdowns a bit more often than before. I'm not sure if anything actually changed, or if I'm just more trigger happy than I used to be, but I think my Awesomes are not performing as well as they used to, heat wise. If so, that's even worse news for the AWS. It needs better heat dissipation characteristics, not worse.

Anyway, I've changed my 8Q build to increase the heat efficiency. I replaced 2 LLs with2 MLs, dropped Endo, and added a few more DHS. I think my HE is now something like 1.2, which allows me to sustain fire more easily. I mainly work with the two LL groups (alternately firing them), then switch to the MLs when I get near critical or when the LLs are cooling down. Packs a little less punch now, but still decent I guess. I do miss cycling 6 LLs though, as I really could do significant damage quickly (like shear an ear off an SRM Cat). Harder to do that now.

[TostitoBandito]

I play a 9M with either a 375 or 385 engine, and it is very effective. And fast.

[GalaxyBluestar]

Tice Daurus, on 22 January 2013 - 11:47 AM, said:

I am an Awesome master of the 8Q, the 8T and the 9M. I'm also thinking of trading my 8T for an 8R.

I've run awesomes for months now. And if you know how to pilot one, you can be highly effective as a mech killer. But it still stands to reason that the Awesome still has it's problems. The main problem...speed.

The 8 series is nerfed with only a 290 engine. That's less than a 1 MP upgrade. At best, the Awesome should be allowed to go to at least a 320 engine. I'm not advocating for an 400 engine, although that would be great to have, but I'm not holding my breath that this will ever happen again. But to give it at least a 320. That's fair. Nerfing the Awesome to a 290 handicaps the Awesome badly. Otherwise if you do see an Awesome, all you will ever see is 3 variants, the 8Q, 8R and the 9M.

However...the thing that will SAVE the Awesome is coming soon...PPC/ER PPC heat nerfs and EMP effect for the PPC/ER PPC which would give HUD disruption and possible electrical damage to equipment. This...PLUS if they can fix the advanced zoom would do WONDERS for the Awesome.

that's exactly what i've been waiting for, i'm not a brawler pilot it just doesn't work with 250-300ping dying frame rates and hitdetection though it's improving since last patch. for now awesomes can only be used by smooth frame rate brawlers, the one thing i've been trying to avoid, if the fixes come i might get my originally intended sniper back and not rely on the inadequite speed to try and waver it's huge torso hitboxes yay!

[NRP]

I still say the 8T has the best hard point locations of any AWS. Having two lasers on each arm is just badazz when torso twisting during hit and runs. Much easier to track the target. The 9M's hard points are crap by comparison. Really, all the 9M has is speed. It is otherwise unremarkable imo.

[FerretGR]

Lightfoot, on 24 January 2013 - 12:56 PM, said:

I am mothballing all 3 Awesomes I own including the 9M, so you won't be seeing me in an Awesome again.

Later that same evening:





Secret Awesome love. I understand. It's kind of like the guy who goes out of his way to mock the odd-looking girl that he actually has a secret crush on. I get it now.

As an aside, the CT wasn't the problem here GG my friend

Edited by FerretGR, 24 January 2013 - 09:36 PM.

[NRP]

LOL! Nice FerretGR.

[Solis Obscuri]

Gryfalia, on 24 January 2013 - 02:39 PM, said:

As I said to my regiment folks, ECM should have gone on the Awesome instead of the Atlas. The Atlas was already a popular mech that didn't need a boost. The Awesome is an OK mech (that I personally love driving) that would have found a much better place in the world with the ECM.

Well, the AWS-9Q gets an ECM in 3057... the Atlas doesn't get one until post-Jihad.

[GalaxyBluestar]

BunnyWabbit, on 22 January 2013 - 03:34 PM, said:

The only problem I find with this build is that there are other mechs who can brawl better than that namely the 9m for starters. The reason I wanted to go with 6ll or 6ppcs and suggested it was because only the stalker can actually do that and the awesome can do it while moving slightly quicker. Personally I dont make any mechs that are so called "all arounders" because I find against specialized mechs they get roasted real quick. He said it was viable so Ill have to check out the 6ll build and if it doesnt work ill go with 6ppcs. I like playing my 9M so much I want to unlock the elite tree for it but was worried it would be horrible considering I felt the rest of the awesomes couldnt do anything that a different mech couldnt do better.

i find that sustained dps is better than a one shot and overheat scenario, when your big and slowish you don't want to stop moving, still it's been ages since i've had a go at stacking LLs so i'll give it a shot some time. ranged fire can make a difference it's just you can't creep around and get shots on people without exposing half the profile and get hit first. that's why it's poor as a sniper saddly.

[Mazzyplz]

another one, this one is on a match today, with the latest patch! (yikes...) i was doing about 600dmg, but then i ran into a LRM boat that was trying to fight me at close range... lol. i managed to survive the barrage of his team mates long enough to kill him...

but my team... i'd like to think they were getting massive glitches..

Edited by Mazzyplz, 26 January 2013 - 09:12 AM.