949 replies to this topic

[Rejarial Galatan]

Buddahcjcc, on 29 May 2012 - 06:38 PM, said:

I could be wrong but coolant tanks where in battletech... I remember they blew up badly too

Ah you mean like they did in MW4
That never lasts more than one or two uses for ME lol

see this is what makes me laugh soo bloody hard! people scream that coolant flushing is an easy button or is for infinite alpha strikes. It is a tactical emergency ability that in absolute certainty if in the game could make the difference between a pilots death or survival. For all of the haters against the coolant flush idea, in what ever form it could take, I submit for you to read, and will give you the pitchforks and torches and fuel after, but read first.

Let us say, your in oh, an awesome, and your badly damaged, but your weapons still function, but, lets say, for sake of this argument, your heatsinks are majorly damaged to the point they offer at best 20% effectiveness. You are being 'chased' by lets say, ANOTHER awesome, in basically the same exact condition as you! Your mech's health is at 20% remaining until your dead. Same is said for the other guy. HIS heat level is at 50% of critical, YOURS 90%. You KNOW, its going to end one way or another in about 10 seconds, and you KNOW it will be because your mech simply cannot take the heat and your on board systems are screaming Emergency Shut Down Sequence Started. You quietly accept your death as your opponent lines up his shot. BUT WAIT! You suddenly remember, I HAVE COOLANT I can FLUSH! You open your coolant pods dump valves and flood your heatsinks! This doesnt fully cool your mech, but you quickly look at the heat indicator and in an instant you know, you just KNOW you can belt out a last Alpha Strike. You hit the button, and BOOM! Your mech reels backwards as the weapons fire, your mech is now beginning to sizzle as fuses blow, and the mech powers down. A few minutes later, you notice, "Hey, I am still alive!" and look outside your ferroglass cockpit, and see a smoldering scrap pile that was your enemy! Your coolant flush saved your life!

While, yes, this is a hypothetical situation, it does show, that if used at the exact right moment, you can survive what would otherwise be a fatal moment. I get that a LOT of you hate/despise Coolant Flushing in ANY form, but, know this, it is in canon, it isnt perfect by any means, but, it is like the urbanmech in all honesty. Some of us like it, some of us hate it.

[TriggerhappySOB]

The one thing that ****** me off in all mechwarrior games so far. An all out arms race, where everyone just goes for the 100 ton mech and loads it down with as many Large lasers (pick your poison its just an example) as possible. I know the devs have made it clear theres supposed to be more benefits to taking a mech for a specific role, but i feel it just needs to be re-stated.

[Rejarial Galatan]

While, I agree with you Triggerhappy, I honestly think we will see an arms race in the game. Its our nature as gamers to get the biggest baddest cat on the block as fast as we can. I think, though, i still hate this idea, that the hard point system and the fact we cant put JJ's on everything that moves will limit this, but ppl will still find a way around it.

[Nexx Nisshoko]

What I do not want to see in MWO is Barrens Chat... Chuck Norris is not greater than an Atlas...

[Rejarial Galatan]

sounds like goldshire to this old alliance warlock XD

[Agent Cooper]

jack ***** with no honour or sportsmanship. I really hate playing with jerks who just want their kill ratio to go up cause it makes him cool. No teamwork and all self really ****** me off.

[Rejarial Galatan]

Agent Cooper, on 29 May 2012 - 08:33 PM, said:

jack ***** with no honour or sportsmanship. I really hate playing with jerks who just want their kill ratio to go up cause it makes him cool. No teamwork and all self really ****** me off.

on the first part, the nobs with no honor/sportsmanship, i hate em too. Same with those who are after kill counts only, with no qualms how they get higher numbers bug me. BUT, until we get an in game voice, we cant really expect a lot cooperative team work. Mostly because we all wont necessarily be on the same 3rd part VOIP, alot of this will be PUGs and since this IS a combat game, you cannot expect people to type and fight and make a CLEAR point that is understood by the intended recipient<s>.

[Ilfi]

No cash-only chassis layouts. Reskins are fine (see: Operation Inception), but don't sell a bot with a specific critical/hardpoint layout that can't be attained by free players through grinding.

[Rejarial Galatan]

FenixStryk, on 29 May 2012 - 08:41 PM, said:

No cash-only chassis layouts. Reskins are fine (see: Operation Inception), but don't sell a bot with a specific critical/hardpoint layout that can't be attained by free players through grinding.

absolute agreement, with the added note of: no cash only weapons.

[William Petersen]

Rejarial Galatan, on 29 May 2012 - 07:28 PM, said:

While, yes, this is a hypothetical situation, it does show, that if used at the exact right moment, you can survive cheese through what would otherwise be a fatal moment which you shouldn't have gotten yourself into in the first place. I get that a LOT of you hate/despise Coolant Flushing in ANY form, but, know this, it is in canon, it's just not actaully used by any canon designs at all it isnt perfect by any means, but, it is like the urbanmech in all honesty except, the latter is actually used. and the former isn't; but that doesn't matter. Some of us like it because we're e-boating wimps who can't manage our heat, some of us hate it.

Faithful editor, here to serve. /salute

[Belisarius1]

It frustrates me that the pro-coolant position is now synonymous with Rej. There are good reasons to keep it and most of the arguments against it are flawed and/or reactions against MW4, in which there were a stack of contributing issues.

Unfortunately, because the great defender of the faith TALKS like THIS, everyone writes it off with glee.

Edited by Belisarius1, 29 May 2012 - 09:48 PM.

[Telpher]

i don't...
1. angry"birds" quiters or afk players who leave machine and still going in plus when battle ends
2. "special""bonus""turbo" or name like u want edition OP mech like magic premiums in WoT
3 stupid parties like WoT tier 10 with 2 "friends" in tier 1 or 2 ..what makes battle..
4 magic shots , and invisible mechs like shot from bushes and still u dont see what how where..but u knows hes somewhere here on front..i understood that scout could spot me and someting lock missle..but shooting from somebody whos 50 or 20 m form me and i cant see him becouse he's in trees..
5 null shoots
6 Justin Biber;) ..what u dont like elves, ponnies.. why not him?? :)

7 please i beg u make all servers /regions the same not like wot different stuff ,patches on every server.. if u giving something give everyone(server) ..and its not socialism...

Edited by Telpher, 29 May 2012 - 09:51 PM.

[Rejarial Galatan]

Belisarius1, on 29 May 2012 - 09:45 PM, said:

It frustrates me that the pro-coolant position is now synonymous with Rej. There are good reasons to keep it and most of the arguments against it are flawed and/or reactions against MW4, in which there were a stack of contributing issues.

Unfortunately, because the great defender of the faith TALKS like THIS, everyone writes it off with glee.

<blinks> When did this happen? Also, Belisarius, did you just kinda sorta in some funky way defend the coolant position and in an even odder way sorta defend me? and you are absolutely right, a lot of the coolant hate stems from a flawed game to begin with. What I also noticed is, there seems to be an ideal that says coolant flush is some how easy button or something. Way I see it, it should be used in that last ditch attempt to ya know, not die in combat when your mech is 'bleeding' badly and has a slim chance to survive if you can out run the heat demons.

[Karl Streiger]

Well well well
I'm curious what "gold" ammunition could be in MWO...there are special ammunition but everything comes for a price

There

Telpher, on 29 May 2012 - 09:48 PM, said:

i don't...
3 stupid parties like WoT tier 10 with 2 "friends" in tier 1 or 2 ..what makes battle..
4 magic shots , and invisible mechs like shot from bushes and still u dont see what how where..but u knows hes somewhere here on front..i understood that scout could spot me and someting lock missle..but shooting from somebody whos 50 or 20 m form me and i cant see him becouse he's in trees..

There are no tiers...you can run in to a battle with 10 atlas but the 2 Commandos a legal and maybe necessary - however use 10 Atlas on the wrong terrain and you are circled in a slayed to the man - would happen in the board game so far

There will be magic shots - indirect fire

[Belisarius1]

Rejarial Galatan, on 29 May 2012 - 09:52 PM, said:

<blinks> When did this happen? Also, Belisarius, did you just kinda sorta in some funky way defend the coolant position and in an even odder way sorta defend me? and you are absolutely right, a lot of the coolant hate stems from a flawed game to begin with. What I also noticed is, there seems to be an ideal that says coolant flush is some how easy button or something. Way I see it, it should be used in that last ditch attempt to ya know, not die in combat when your mech is 'bleeding' badly and has a slim chance to survive if you can out run the heat demons.

I agree with your position on this. I don't think you're particularly effective at arguing it.

Also the whole thing is moot since MWO will not have coolant.

[Rejarial Galatan]

which imho is a mistake. I dont want to sound trollish here, but, they say the game is coming from table top, and yet, they dont include something that has table top rules and is included in games? doesnt add up to me at all. Also, I argue the coolant position for a buffer of the learning curve for those who will come to this game w/out ANY experience or working knowledge of the BTU. If I was going on the tack of why we should have it, I would be more eloquent on its benefits.

[William Petersen]

Rejarial Galatan, on 29 May 2012 - 09:52 PM, said:

<blinks> When did this happen? Also, Belisarius, did you just kinda sorta in some funky way defend the coolant position and in an even odder way sorta defend me? and you are absolutely right, a lot of the coolant hate stems from a flawed game to begin with. What I also noticed is, there seems to be an ideal that says coolant flush is some how easy button or something. Way I see it, it should be used in that last ditch attempt to ya know, not die in combat when your mech is 'bleeding' badly and has a slim chance to survive if you can out run the heat demons.

Because that's exactly what it is: an easy button that removes (or lessens) the only drawback energy weapons have. I can't hit a button and magically have more ammo for my ACs or Missiles, why the hell should E-boaters have a button to magically have more heat capacity/dissipation?

If I want more ammo, I bring more ammo. You want more heat dissipation? Bring more heat sinks.

[Rejarial Galatan]

why should ammo boaters have a system to lessen the risk of ammo detonations? If I cannot have the emergency button to dump just enough heat to make a hail mary shot to try to save my life, why should ammo boaters have a system that will be in the game? I never once have said that the coolant flush should be used flippantly as a way to get out of over heating. But, I ask you to think about this for a moment Petersen, and yea, I clicked the "view anyway' button. But, I digress, I ask you ponder this a moment. You have, lets say the Awesome, and I am in the same mech. We share the primary configuration, just for arguments sake alright? Let us also say our mechs have identical damage. We are at 10% remaining condition, and the next alpha strike will breach the center torso and core either of us. Let us also say for argument sake, our heat sinks are at, 10% efficiency from massive damage, again, for arguments sake. Now, here is the scenario:

We see each other across the field of strife. Our targeting computer's are messed up badly. We begin firing at each other trying to hit each other. Because you want to kill me, just because of what ever reason <being civil here> you fire and fire and fire, while for some reason, I stop firing and just close in on dead reckoning. Your heat is now reaching critical while mine has gone down to a safer level. Your mech is screaming in that oh so lovely voice we know and love from the games past, that auto shutdown is starting. You know that if you can get that alpha strike off you can core me. But, your mech suddenly shuts down because the server burped and missed your shut down over ride command. I fire my alpha and your mech goes down.
Now, lets rewrite that ending a little. Coolant Flushing in some form is in the game. Pick what ever form suits you for your imagination. The mech begins to complain about auto shutdown nearing. You hit the over ride, then open the coolant dump valve, and cool your mech just enough to belt out the alpha strike. Because you cooled and are half a second faster, you belt out said alpha strike and core me, followed by your mech suddenly shutting down because you decided to revel in my 'death' and your mech over heated. You sit there laughing at me because I died, and you didnt. You get that laugh thanks to coolant flushing in some form. I hope this helps you see my side of this. Where it should be a last ditch thing to kill before being killed.

[LctRoyFokker]

Well no CLAN battlemechs intill 3050.

Think It would be somthing like this.

" A random FedCom (Federated Commonwealth) transport neer the Periphery gets attacked, and the last shot the outside camera gets is of a unknow battlefleet, with some unknon symble on its hull."

Something like this anywhy would be cool.

[William Petersen]

Rejarial Galatan, on 29 May 2012 - 10:26 PM, said:

why should ammo boaters have a system to lessen the risk of ammo detonations? If I cannot have the emergency button to dump just enough heat to make a hail mary shot to try to save my life, why should ammo boaters have a system that will be in the game? I never once have said that the coolant flush should be used flippantly as a way to get out of over heating. But, I ask you to think about this for a moment Petersen, and yea, I clicked the "view anyway' button. But, I digress, I ask you ponder this a moment. You have, lets say the Awesome, and I am in the same mech. We share the primary configuration, just for arguments sake alright? Let us also say our mechs have identical damage. We are at 10% remaining condition, and the next alpha strike will breach the center torso and core either of us. Let us also say for argument sake, our heat sinks are at, 10% efficiency from massive damage, again, for arguments sake. Now, here is the scenario:

We see each other across the field of strife. Our targeting computer's are messed up badly. We begin firing at each other trying to hit each other. Because you want to kill me, just because of what ever reason <being civil here> you fire and fire and fire, while for some reason, I stop firing and just close in on dead reckoning. Your heat is now reaching critical while mine has gone down to a safer level. Your mech is screaming in that oh so lovely voice we know and love from the games past, that auto shutdown is starting. You know that if you can get that alpha strike off you can core me. But, your mech suddenly shuts down because the server burped and missed your shut down over ride command. I fire my alpha and your mech goes down.
Now, lets rewrite that ending a little. Coolant Flushing in some form is in the game. Pick what ever form suits you for your imagination. The mech begins to complain about auto shutdown nearing. You hit the over ride, then open the coolant dump valve, and cool your mech just enough to belt out the alpha strike. Because you cooled and are half a second faster, you belt out said alpha strike and core me, followed by your mech suddenly shutting down because you decided to revel in my 'death' and your mech over heated. You sit there laughing at me because I died, and you didnt. You get that laugh thanks to coolant flushing in some form. I hope this helps you see my side of this. Where it should be a last ditch thing to kill before being killed.

Are you talking about CASE? You're seriously trying to compare ammo explosions from one ton of ammo destroying your whole mech to heat? Seriously?

CASE doesn't make the ammo explosion go away, buddy. You still lose that ton of ammo, lose the section the ammo is contained in, and the arm or torso attached (and all weaposn contained in both sections). You lose probably half or more your combat potency to an ammo explosion, and if you're using an XL engine, it doesn't matter, you're a done duck anyway 'cause you lost a side-toros. Keep your comparisons apples-to-apples, please. Coolant is an "I win" and "easy mode" button for bad players.

Manage. Your. Heat. Don't *let* yourself get into a situation where you "need" coolant, because that is bad play.


EDIT: Not to mention CASE take a crit and a half-ton per section. (Clan CASE is free, but Clan Tech is "Hax Tech" as Spork likes to say).

Edited by William Petersen, 29 May 2012 - 10:34 PM.