70 replies to this topic

[Ravn]

Thirdstar, on 26 January 2013 - 01:30 PM, said:

In my opinion, this is exactly what should have happened. Or close to it anyway.

I think you'd be hard pressed to find a reasonable person on the forums who thinks the game should have gone to Open Beta in the state it was.

I think you'd be hard pressed to find a person who doesn't enjoy the game as it stands in its Open Beta form.

[Thirdstar]

Ravn, on 26 January 2013 - 01:35 PM, said:

I think you'd be hard pressed to find a person who doesn't enjoy the game as it stands in its Open Beta form.

That's entirely debatable, and you know it.

[Castigatus]

Thirdstar, on 26 January 2013 - 01:39 PM, said:

That's entirely debatable, and you know it.

So is what you said.

[Ravn]

Do i need to go get SUG again to comment on how PGI is holding people hostage and forcing them to play?

[ArmandTulsen]

Cool story OP.

Tell it again. This time with more entitlement.

[Thirdstar]

Ravn, on 26 January 2013 - 01:40 PM, said:

Do i need to go get SUG again to comment on how PGI is holding people hostage and forcing them to play?

What exactly IS your stand? That there should be no criticism ever? Because that goes against what the OP is talking about.

[Ravn]

That criticisms void of constructive solutions are lame.

Edited for subject/verb agreement. Those that don't practice proper grammar are also lame.

Edited by Ravn, 26 January 2013 - 01:58 PM.

[Thirdstar]

Ravn, on 26 January 2013 - 01:54 PM, said:

That criticisms void of constructive solutions are lame.

Good thing then that there's plenty of constructive criticism on the forums eh? Phew dodged a bullet there.

[Codejack]

roflplanes, on 26 January 2013 - 11:19 AM, said:

IF YOU REALLY CAN'T KEEP YOUR CRITICISM CONSTRUCTIVE

OK, how about I give YOU some constructive criticism:

PGI doesn't listen to constructive criticism. They have demonstrated this fact many times. Our only hope at this point is to mock their failures mercilessly until the entire staff is fired and maybe they can hire some competent personnel.

Seriously, have you looked at the game? This isn't "beta;" this is the work of an office temp with a bad attitude. Beta is for finding bugs, not introducing new systems that wildly change the fundamental balance of the game.

I haven't spent much money on this game; I was prepared to buy the top founder's package, but the lack of content turned me off; I was prepared to buy a hero mech, but they all suck; the only thing I have bought are more mechbays, and that was only necessary because half the mechs I own are useless right now, but I really don't want to sell them.

[Thirdstar]

Codejack, on 26 January 2013 - 01:58 PM, said:

OK, how about I give YOU some constructive criticism:

PGI doesn't listen to constructive criticism. They have demonstrated this fact many times. Our only hope at this point is to mock their failures mercilessly until the entire staff is fired and maybe they can hire some competent personnel.

Uh, this doesn't seem like an approach that will get much traction. Just saying.

Some of the Devs have recently been very communicative. Major kudos to both Thomas and Matthew.

Pic related

Edited by Thirdstar, 26 January 2013 - 02:01 PM.

[Ravn]

Codejack, on 26 January 2013 - 01:58 PM, said:

OK, how about I give YOU some constructive criticism:

PGI doesn't listen to constructive criticism. They have demonstrated this fact many times. Our only hope at this point is to mock their failures mercilessly until the entire staff is fired and maybe they can hire some competent personnel.

Seriously, have you looked at the game? This isn't "beta;" this is the work of an office temp with a bad attitude. Beta is for finding bugs, not introducing new systems that wildly change the fundamental balance of the game.

I haven't spent much money on this game; I was prepared to buy the top founder's package, but the lack of content turned me off; I was prepared to buy a hero mech, but they all suck; the only thing I have bought are more mechbays, and that was only necessary because half the mechs I own are useless right now, but I really don't want to sell them.

Lol, someone poop in your corn flakes this morning?

Edited by Ravn, 26 January 2013 - 02:02 PM.

[Codejack]

Thirdstar, on 26 January 2013 - 02:00 PM, said:

Uh, this doesn't seem like an approach that will get much traction. Just saying.

Some of the Devs have recently been very communicative. Major kudos to both Thomas and Matthew.

Yea, what did they talk about? Any real issues? Anything that we care about? Nope.

Ravn, on 26 January 2013 - 02:01 PM, said:

Lol, someone poop in your corn flakes this morning?

I don't know about corn flakes, but you're in the right forum to talk about poop.

[Castigatus]

Ravn is right Codejack. Even if you had any good arguements, which you dont because all you do is spew vitriol, the sheer unpleasantness of your tone is such that they will simply ignore it rather than go through the hardship of trying to sift any useful contributions from the torrent of bile and insults. Just because you've given up on being polite doesn't mean they have any more obligation to listen to you after all. As for your resolve to get the devs fired thats just unbelievebly spiteful not to mention incredibly childish.

[Voodoo Circus]

Great post OP

[miscreant]

I simply want the game to be amazing, I care about MW and BT, and don't want this game to fall apart and lose the user base because the dev team cannot keep the game fresh. New maps are so important, and once we have more than 8 maps I will buy MC.

[roflplanes]

Thirdstar, on 26 January 2013 - 12:56 PM, said:

You're contradicting yourself. Either your first point is true or your second is. Both cannot be true. You say the issues will be fixed and then point out that oftentimes issues never get fixed. 'Eventually Will Be Fixed' is hardly sufficient balm to people who do want to play the game but are prevented from doing so due to game stopping bugs.



There's still only 4 maps and 2 game modes and game mechanic tweaks have mostly been limited to Artemis and ECM since OB. Lets be honest here.



You're comparing apples to oranges. This is not 1996 or any of the later dates. MOGs like MWO need constant updates moreso in fact during the Beta cycle than the relatively stable release stage.



The rest of your post is a bit vehement but I can agree with all of it.

The word entitlement gets thrown around willy nilly around here far too much for my liking.

I didn't see this as "tearing the post apart" at all. Thanks for the valid points and arguments, actually. But let me clarify a couple of points as my wording was a bit ambiguous.

1) I wasn't contradicting myself. I MEANT to say (sorry for the lack of clarity) that in a program that's still ACTIVELY UNDER DEVELOPMENT (like MW:O), those bugs may be present (and plentiful) but they will someday be addressed. In the finished piece of software that everyone seems to be clamoring for, however, any present bugs (although they may be fewer and less blatant) will usually NEVER be addressed unless they're glaringly horrendous (map clipping through textures, obvious exploits, etc.).

2) I agree fully that the fixes are being implemented in an odd order compared to the IMPORTANCE of the issues still present. However, from a developer's standpoint (I do this for the army, in a stupid database-oriented kind of way) I also understand that the bigger issues we really WANT fixed (netcode for example) are often the HARDEST to fix and therefore take far more time to properly patch. So to me, as long as we're still seeing forward progress on any front, however insignificant, it gives me hope that the bigger issues are also being addressed in the background.

3) I know, that was a horrible comparison, but you can't imagine how many posts I've read about how PGI is "ruining the awesome franchise" with this game and comparing MW:O to the older, pre-boxed softwares we all know and love.

4) I agree, it was a bit harsh, but it WAS labeled a rant, after all... ;-) I'm honestly just sick of seeing all the hate and hearing stories of people bashing and yelling at and threatening the developers (see the post in this thread on page two about the dev team being a bunch of interns with bad attitudes...) for a piece of software that they are providing to the community free of charge, just for the spirit of nostalgia (and their paychecks, of course, but let's be honest about how much they could possibly be making compared to the hours developers put into their work) and our personal enjoyment.

Everyone else, thanks for the support! I just want to make sure that all PGI sees when they troll through the forums isn't a bunch of negativity. It's always nice to get (even a small, quiet) pat on the back sometimes.

And to whoever called me a suck-up, you're right. These people brought my very CHILDHOOD back from the dead, and I'm rather grateful for that. If you're not, then perhaps you should be spending your hard-earned paychecks elsewhere. I heard you can buy stuff on Farmville nowadays... >_>

[roflplanes]

Codejack, on 26 January 2013 - 01:58 PM, said:

OK, how about I give YOU some constructive criticism:

PGI doesn't listen to constructive criticism. They have demonstrated this fact many times. Our only hope at this point is to mock their failures mercilessly until the entire staff is fired and maybe they can hire some competent personnel.

Seriously, have you looked at the game? This isn't "beta;" this is the work of an office temp with a bad attitude. Beta is for finding bugs, not introducing new systems that wildly change the fundamental balance of the game.

I haven't spent much money on this game; I was prepared to buy the top founder's package, but the lack of content turned me off; I was prepared to buy a hero mech, but they all suck; the only thing I have bought are more mechbays, and that was only necessary because half the mechs I own are useless right now, but I really don't want to sell them.

First of all (even based solely off of your tone alone), this was the exact opposite of "constructive" criticism haha.

And I understand your frustration, I really do. I've taken several "breaks" from this game because I couldn't stand this bug or that. But bashing the development team REALLY isn't the answer, and you HAVE to know that deep down inside.

Contrary to your "office temp" stereotype, their hiring standards are actually quite high. I've been programming for years and I'm not even CLOSE to qualified to work on this project.

You are right, however, this game is in more of an "alpha" stage TECHNICALLY speaking. Now explain to me (using proper software development lifecycle terms within EITHER the cyclic or agile programming methods) what the difference is between an "alpha" and a "beta" testing stage. No? I didn't think so. Using the term "beta" is simply a CYA for them so they can continue testing and changing features while allowing us to enjoy their progress. They don't use the real lingo because jargon simply confuses the masses and turns people off. Please don't be that guy who nitpicks what they call it at what stage of it's life because I WILL play that game with you and you WILL lose.

Finally, please don't let me come across as a you-know-what. I agree with your last sentiment whole-heartedly and haven't spent nearly as much money as I would if the game were in a better state. But you've got to either have faith that it will eventually get there, keep your head down, and wait for things to get better, or simply move on. This horrible attitude everyone has is entirely uncalled for and quite disheartening.

[roflplanes]

Thirdstar, on 26 January 2013 - 01:49 PM, said:

What exactly IS your stand? That there should be no criticism ever? Because that goes against what the OP is talking about.

First of all (to address your earlier post) I'm actually quite ok with the state the game was in when it entered open beta. Is it polished? No. Are there things I want changed or don't like? Of course. But this way I not only get to watch it grow and mature as a game, I get to be part of the process and have the privilege of standing back one day and saying "remember when MW:O was just getting started? Yeah, I was there for that. I saw it all come together..." which is a pretty cool sentiment to me.

But no, I'm not at all saying there should be no criticism. I actually agree with 90% of it. I think ECM is broken. I think we should be able to buy camo once and transfer it around our 'Mechbay. I think LRMs are broken. I think PPCs need a buff and SRMs need a nerf. I get it. I just think we should voice these things firmly, frequently, and loudly but RESPECTFULLY and professionally. Yelling, screaming, and rage-quitting the whole game are NOT the answers in my humble opinion.

[HiplyRustic]

I agree with the headline sentiment, that criticism should be constructive. To me that means something like "I think XXXXX is wrong and this is why. I think it should be like this...." as opposed to "U twits know jack about coding, ur game is fubar, i hate you, diaf"

Having said that, I don't really care what apologist-based definition for Open Beta someone dredges up to support their position. When a game goes to Open Beta it is being marketed to the masses. When it goes to Open Beta and markets RMT products, it is getting perilously close to a commercial launch that is ducking review sites based on a technicality.

In an Open Beta state it would be reasonable for an experienced MMO gamer considering playing to expect a bascially feature-complete game with the final pre-launch bugs being hunted down and killed. That's a factual representation of what an Open Beta is, in both the MMO world and the commercial software world as well. Spin that however you want.

Criticisms of the product are reasonable, but mindless drooling rants are not.

[Livewyr]

Codejack, on 26 January 2013 - 01:58 PM, said:

OK, how about I give YOU some constructive criticism:

PGI doesn't listen to constructive criticism. They have demonstrated this fact many times. Our only hope at this point is to mock their failures mercilessly until the entire staff is fired and maybe they can hire some competent personnel.

Seriously, have you looked at the game? This isn't "beta;" this is the work of an office temp with a bad attitude. Beta is for finding bugs, not introducing new systems that wildly change the fundamental balance of the game.

I haven't spent much money on this game; I was prepared to buy the top founder's package, but the lack of content turned me off; I was prepared to buy a hero mech, but they all suck; the only thing I have bought are more mechbays, and that was only necessary because half the mechs I own are useless right now, but I really don't want to sell them.

You're trolling right?

Please be trolling.