455 replies to this topic

[Pando]

As a former gaming center owner, I encourage your friend to encourage the ones trying MWO to work like a team to succeed in a team game.

[Inviticus]

The problem is 100% due to the **** poor matchmaking system. By default, it creates unbalanced games with little if any logic to prevent lopsided team stacking. In my opinion, the Matchmaker is the single worst aspect of this game since it leads to so many bad experiences and poor impressions from the most important segment of this community; the New Player.

New players in trial mechs should never be matched against pre-mades and veteran players. 4-man Pre-Mades should never be matched against pure PuGs and Sync-Dropping should never be possible. The Developers would also do us a great service by providing a Solo Only queue or at least garaunteeing a 4man premade on each side. This game simply will not grow like it should until it is a friendlier place for new players, casuals, and solo droppers.

[roflplanes]

Inviticus, on 30 January 2013 - 09:06 AM, said:

The problem is 100% due to the **** poor matchmaking system. By default, it creates unbalanced games with little if any logic to prevent lopsided team stacking. In my opinion, the Matchmaker is the single worst aspect of this game since it leads to so many bad experiences and poor impressions from the most important segment of this community; the New Player.

New players in trial mechs should never be matched against pre-mades and veteran players. 4-man Pre-Mades should never be matched against pure PuGs and Sync-Dropping should never be possible. The Developers would also do us a great service by providing a Solo Only queue or at least garaunteeing a 4man premade on each side. This game simply will not grow like it should until it is a friendlier place for new players, casuals, and solo droppers.

This answer, I can stand behind 100%. Synch dropping, even accidentally, is an issue that negatively affects gameplay for the other team even IF they have a single 4-man on their side. Honestly, I feel like a simple lobby system would 100% solve this issue though. New people can drop in small groups with other new people (or set up privately run training servers), experienced premade groups could drop with their people against whoever wanted to play with them, and a lobby takes almost ALL of the stress off the dev team's shoulders. You don't need complicated algorithms, just let people do it themselves.

Regardless, thanks for not immediately blaming the premade community, it's refreshing for once.

[Moridan]

Sooooo many [REDACTED] whiners in this thread, truly amazing.

You basically are expecting people to suck as much as you do, and are mad at people for doing better than you. That's a shame. If you are frustrated at getting ROFLstomped when you PUG... oh, I dont know... JOIN A GROUP! This is a team-based game. One soldier doesnt go into the field alone to engage the enemy, ignore Hollywood.

I bet you could find a correlation between the people complaining about the match maker system and the people complaining about ECM. It's in the game, it's the way it works. Adapt, improvise, overcome.

By the way, for the sync drop whiners, do you realize that there is an equal chance of two 4-mans to end up on opposite sides as on the same side? I bet you arent complaining when you have 4 people on your team that are working together. lol [REDACTED].

Edited by Dakkath, 30 January 2013 - 09:46 AM.
redacted insults, keep it clean please.

[silentD11]

Moridan, on 30 January 2013 - 09:14 AM, said:

Sooooo many [REDACTED] whiners in this thread, truly amazing.

You basically are expecting people to suck as much as you do, and are mad at people for doing better than you. That's a shame. If you are frustrated at getting ROFLstomped when you PUG... oh, I dont know... JOIN A GROUP! This is a team-based game. One soldier doesnt go into the field alone to engage the enemy, ignore Hollywood.

I bet you could find a correlation between the people complaining about the match maker system and the people complaining about ECM. It's in the game, it's the way it works. Adapt, improvise, overcome.

By the way, for the sync drop whiners, do you realize that there is an equal chance of two 4-mans to end up on opposite sides as on the same side? I bet you arent complaining when you have 4 people on your team that are working together. lol [REDACTED].

People shouldn't have to join a group to have fun, and it's useless to demand that. Many people simply don't have the time and... like it or not the vast majority of people are solo's in every game out there.

The match maker is jacked, for both the 8v8 pool and the normal pool. Just in different ways. 8v8 is a hot mess because of the lack of restrictions. In the other pool premades have something to do with it, but there is more to it. Mainly pug's that don't communicate, trial mechs, people who have never played before, and people who are genuinely terrible players (can't shoot, can't build a mech, can't move, and are idiots). The greatest advantage of a premade isn't always voice communication, it's the ability to make sure at least some of your team are not morons. Given the small size of the games and the huge disadvantage having a single player down puts on a team all it takes is one or two grade A ***** pugs to screw up a team, and given the amount of idiots out there it's not uncommon to have a couple of them out there.

Edited by Dakkath, 30 January 2013 - 09:47 AM.
quote cleanup

[Greyfyl]

Joseph Mallan, on 30 January 2013 - 07:49 AM, said:

Unfair advantage?
If I use two Gauss on a Catapult is it an Unfair advantage or just an advantage?
LRMs can kill brawlers at a distance, Unfair advantage or just an advantage?
TS can be used by almost everyone, Unfair advantage or just an advantage?
6 SRMs on a Cat, Unfair advantage or just an advantage?

You have no reading comprehension at all. None.

[Joseph Mallan]

And you haven't answered the questions. Have you?

Quote

Wrongful intent or unethical acts are generally implied in unfair advantage. A basketball player who stands over 7 feet tall is not deemed to have an unfair advantage over shorter players, since the genes that cause height are not within the control of the player. However, tripping other players or using a lower basket could be deemed an unfair advantage.

My comprehension is fine Sir. Being on Comms is not restricted to some players. Dropping in a Que that will allow up to a 4 man team is not an unfair advantage.

To drop as an 8man in the 4man or less Que would be an Unfair advantage. This is what I was addressing with my questions. In the non 8 man Que i take my chances on what type of team I will drop against. I can drop against 8 PUGs up to an 8man on occasions, or anything in between. What if my 4 man+4 PUGs drop against a 4Man+a 2man and 2 PUGs. Is that an Unfair advantage? No cause I could have dropped against a team with 8 PUGs with 2 disconnects. I don't know what I will drop against so the advantage to being a 4man is a fair advantage.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 30 January 2013 - 11:39 AM.

[IIIuminaughty]

Babies only cry when things don't go their way.
Or they need to be feed or a diaper change.

[Yokaiko]

silentD11, on 30 January 2013 - 09:43 AM, said:

People shouldn't have to join a group to have fun, and it's useless to demand that. Many people simply don't have the time and... like it or not the vast majority of people are solo's in every game out there.

There is no single player mode, no duels, and no PvE......but you aren't supposed to have to group.

You group if you play at all, a little logic would help here.

silentD11, on 30 January 2013 - 09:43 AM, said:

The match maker is jacked, for both the 8v8 pool and the normal pool. Just in different ways. 8v8 is a hot mess because of the lack of restrictions. In the other pool premades have something to do with it, but there is more to it. Mainly pug's that don't communicate, trial mechs, people who have never played before, and people who are genuinely terrible players (can't shoot, can't build a mech, can't move, and are idiots). The greatest advantage of a premade isn't always voice communication, it's the ability to make sure at least some of your team are not morons. Given the small size of the games and the huge disadvantage having a single player down puts on a team all it takes is one or two grade A ***** pugs to screw up a team, and given the amount of idiots out there it's not uncommon to have a couple of them out there.

So if you choose to handicap yourself, don't whine.

Edited by Yokaiko, 30 January 2013 - 11:18 AM.

[Taizan]

Jade Kitsune, on 29 January 2013 - 04:14 AM, said:

[did I mention it comes with a full stat wipe?]

Stat wipe comes with the achievements afaik.

Quote

Q: Should there be a data wipe, or at least a stats wipe when (if ever) Open Beta is deemed over?
A: We plan to wipe stats when achievements come online.

[silentD11]

Yokaiko, on 30 January 2013 - 11:17 AM, said:

There is no single player mode, no duels, and no PvE......but you aren't supposed to have to group.

You group if you play at all, a little logic would help here.




So if you choose to handicap yourself, don't whine.

BF3 is a team game and most players are solo, this has always been the case with all team games. Most people don't have the time to invest into a game like that. If it was only those in groups and only possible to enjoy that way MP games would die really fast.

As for handicapping myself, I pug and I play in premades. I'm not really on either particular side in this fight. But I'll fully admit the match making in both the 8v8 and general pool is problematic at best right now. There's no point in denying it. The lack of any limits in 8v8 cause problems that make them less fun to play, and the amount of bad pug players and trial mechs in pugs set up one side to have a massive handicap which is only made worse by premades.

[FerretGR]

Yokaiko, on 30 January 2013 - 07:52 AM, said:

Unfair my hass.

Unless you are deaf of have family issues anyone can log into the public Constar relays, that would be the definition of ..."public".

Let's not go there. There have been a million threads where premade-only players ask why PUGers PUG, and another million where PUGers explain why they prefer to PUG without prompting. There are plenty of good reasons to PUG. If you're curious about what they are, the forum has a search function.

As for unfair, you and JM both have it wrong: the unfair advantage being referred to by Greyfyl is a sync-dropped 8-man. That's a little unfair to whoever ends up on the opposite side, agreed?

[Greyfyl]

FerretGR, on 30 January 2013 - 11:29 AM, said:

As for unfair, you and JM both have it wrong: the unfair advantage being referred to by Greyfyl is a sync-dropped 8-man. That's a little unfair to whoever ends up on the opposite side, agreed?

Actually the unfair advantage was a quote from Garth referring to premades in general. I'll say it again, it was a quote from Garth saying that premades are playing at an unfair advantage. Here it is again because some of you obviously have no reading comprehension at all (or you just refuse to admit that even someone from PGI has called you out).

Garth Erlam, on 29 January 2013 - 08:10 AM, said:

"So if nothing else, maybe invite a new player into your 4man and show him the ropes. Keep rotating people through every week. I understand the vast majority of 4man groups are just doing it to play with their friends, but I think you also know, if in the back of your mind, you have an unfair advantage. So help the newbies out and show them the ropes."

[Serapth]

Oh, but all premades are just drunk friends being totally casual and they lose all the time they do....

[Joseph Mallan]

Then Murphy's is not actually using an Unfair advantage. We cycle through new players all the time. I introduced a friend to first ComStar, where we teamed up with a random player and had some fun, Then I introduced him to the gang at Murphy's. I have been dropping with two new players to teh organization and i look forward to dropping with the latest new hire still.

[Kell Draygo]

Joseph Mallan, on 30 January 2013 - 12:17 PM, said:

Then Murphy's is not actually using an Unfair advantage. We cycle through new players all the time. I introduced a friend to first ComStar, where we teamed up with a random player and had some fun, Then I introduced him to the gang at Murphy's. I have been dropping with two new players to teh organization and i look forward to dropping with the latest new hire still.

I'm sure you know it's still an unfair advantage but at least you are trying to foster a better community by mentoring a new player. Any four man group dropping into a pug game will always have the advantage. I do wonder if their Phase 3 ELO system will include that. The more people you have in your group, the higher a multiplicative factor is given to your group's rating.

[Joseph Mallan]

Serapth, on 30 January 2013 - 12:14 PM, said:

Oh, but all premades are just drunk friends being totally casual and they lose all the time they do....

37% of the time actually.

Kell Draygo, on 30 January 2013 - 12:18 PM, said:

I'm sure you know it's still an unfair advantage but at least you are trying to foster a better community by mentoring a new player. Any four man group dropping into a pug game will always have the advantage. I do wonder if their Phase 3 ELO system will include that. The more people you have in your group, the higher a multiplicative factor is given to your group's rating.

But its not an Unfair advantage by definition.

[Dimento Graven]

Ilwrath, on 30 January 2013 - 01:24 AM, said:

This is wrong. The numbers of solo players far outnumber the premade noobs in the general gaming population. The devs cannot make a game focused on the premades unless they enforce pre-start setup of groups. And they don't do that.

The game need much more customers and therefore they can safely ignore the premade whining and focus on making the game better for solo-players.

The best is to make the game good for both groups, like WoT does, but if they have to make a hard choice... its not really hard at all: ignore the weaklings that cannot play unless they have a huge advantage by pre-grouping up.

This is a fact.

First, I keep seeing people assume that there are more pugs than there are pre-mades and stating that as fact. I don't believe it, and until PGI opens 'the books' as far as the match maker is concerned we'll never know. I believe that every drop, and I mean every drop has had some number of pre-mades, be it a single 2 man team, or multiple 4-man teams on both sides, pretty much every drop contains some pre-mades.

If there were as many pugs out there as people claim, I wouldn't continuously be dropping with groups where the match maker can't find an 8th person for the team.

Also, let's not confuse the hard core 'lone wolf' with a PAYING customer. What this game needs is more PAYING customers, and anyone unwilling to invest a bit of time and effort into joining a community, assembling a pre-made, download and install FREE VOIP software, really, how likely will that person be to actually PAY for anything?

I'm fairly sure we can agree that the 'reasonable' answer is going to be, "rarely at best."

You say, "...ignore the weaklings that cannot play unless they have a huge advantage by pre-grouping up...", put your money where your mouth is and drop all by yourself if you're so 'powerfull', if ONLY they'd provide an option where you could play 1v1, or drop 1v8 then all you "lone wolves" could really see just how good you are as opposed to how good you think you are.

And, come to think of it, at no point in time have we had pre-mades here bitching and moaning about the pug problem. THE ONLY people stating there is a problem are the pugs. No whining has come from any other source. Well, unless of course, you count the various pre-mades who have lamented the lack of skill, cooperation, and communication with the craptastic pugs they keep getting stuck with in matches, but of course, it's not the fault of the pugs that they don't cooperate, communicate or play as a team, OH GOD NO, there should just BE NO TEAMS because that's "easy mode" or some such ******** nonsense...

Edited by Dimento Graven, 30 January 2013 - 12:28 PM.

[Kell Draygo]

Joseph Mallan, on 30 January 2013 - 12:20 PM, said:

But its not an Unfair advantage by definition.

Just depends on people's definition of fair. I'm sure some people believe fair only means having the same number of pilots on both sides. Some would equate fair to even skill level on both sides. Some would say it's even battle value on both sides or tonnage, etc.

[Dimento Graven]

The Last Blade, on 29 January 2013 - 03:32 PM, said:

Can you count to 3? Can you push the mouse button once?

If you answered yes to these 2 questions, then you too can 8man sync drop.

Sync dropping kills it for pugs, they almost never win. Yes there are a lot of premades, it's not hard to make them. Saying ELO will fix this is inherently ******** and is like saying Piranha is infallible. People can simply fix their own ELO to whatever they want with no reprecussions. We'll have to see how they do when they make matchmaking stage 3, and after the community exploits it as much as they can. Hopefully they listen to experienced players community concerns... but that's just wishful thinking. Anyways, just exploit it and report it, that's what beta is for, if you truly care about this game. 8 man dropping is ******** and I feel clans don't do this because if they really care about this game, they won't do this often. That is piranhas fault with the game though, not the players fault. They made a faulty system and their beta players literally abuse it, that's what beta is for.... that is if the designers actually listen, otherwise it's just players showing new customers why they shoudln't be playing this game.

I love posts like these, the idiots putting them up don't realize the how counter to their position these statements are.

Either, there are so few pre-mades out there that PGI should completely ignore them as they have little to no affect in matches, OR, there are SO MANY pre-mades out there that the PUGs are ALWAYS running into pre-mades that have sync dropped into a match and now the poor pugs are getting totally wiped out, so often that it's nearly not worth playing.

Make up your minds hard core pug'ers, you can't have it BOTH ways.

I can't stress this enough, I'm going to post it again:

from the http://mwomercs.com/game page:

Quote

How does gameplay work?

MechWarrior Online puts MechWarriors into a first-person, team-based, tactical battlefield where the victors swim in the spoils of war and are rewarded with the almighty C-Bill (in-game currency).

Each team has 8 players and the two teams are pitted in combat in an enclosed battlefield. Communication is key, be it in-game chat, integrated C3, or a third party VOIP solution, keeping in constant communication with your teammates will drastically increase your team’s chances of success.

The various weight classes of BattleMechs help create their own evolving roles on the battlefield. Fast moving scouts can feed target and tactical information back to the main battle group and the team commander. This information allows the support and assault role pilots to decide where to put their resources to work. Long-range fire support and heavy hitting assault class Mechs will use this invaluable information to finish the job at hand. It is up to you, the pilot, to customize your BattleMech’s loadout and electronic systems to fulfill the role you want to take.

The game is designed for team play. PGI has stated that communication is key to success.

Suck it up pug'ers, find a merc group to join, download a VOIP solution, shut the F up about it already.