455 replies to this topic

[Thirdstar]

Greyfyl, on 29 January 2013 - 08:40 PM, said:

I'm pretty much done with the issue for now, it's the same excuses by both sides at this point. People on both sides have drawn their lines and you aren't going to reason with any of them. I'm just as guilty of this as anyone as I can't possibly understand how anyone would have an issue with premades being placed on both teams.

Because the battle as it were is now very ideological and the camps have become very very hardline. Think of it in terms of political parties. Neither side can admit to blowing things out of proportion, lying, trolling, ad hom attacks. It would cause a loss of face.

Another point I want to bring up is that I'm terribly dissapointed in Garth.....again. Remember the last time he trotted out the 1 in 10 drops are premade wisdom? People STILL hang onto to that one and this latest post is yet more fuel into the fire. Kristov has already latched onto that, you'll notice.

A Community Manager must never add fuel forum fires. I realize the rest of his post was actually in support of the PUG queue wasteland but that's not what people will take from this thread, they're going to take that one sentence.

Sad.

[Zylo]

If PGI really wanted to stop the exploits in the solo/small group matches they would have stopped the sync-drop exploit long ago by limiting each team to a single group.

Blaming players for the issues while still allowing the matchmaker to place 2x 4-player groups on the same side by chance doesn't fix the problem at all. It makes it look like PGI was unable to make a quick fix after sync-drop exploits were discovered in PHASE 1. Phase 2 released and still allowed the same sync-drop exploits.

Blame the players for exploiting by sync-dropping.

Blame PGI for even allowing it to happen.

[Fyrerock]

Every single game I played so far has been a pug and I only communicate by typing. I have also lost more games then I won by a fair number but my kill ratio is over one as well, and I have noticed a few things as I played. Their are three types of groups that I seems to find myself in, the first which only happens once in a while is a pre-made 4 that I was lucky to join, and I just follow them. The second type of group is the smart players that can aim, shoot and most of the group will have over 250 damage by the end of the fight, even if we win or lose. The third group is the one where at least 4 plus of the players will have less then 100 damage and many times less then 50, which means it is almost impossible to win. What is even worse, is when you see numbers like this from a range fight, where both groups spends many minutes shooting at each other from the distance, and yet a large numbers of players in the group miss most of the time. I am not sure what can be done, but it seems a good portion of the players not only have a hard time aiming, but they also seem to love standing in the open and trade shots back and forth.

But the one type of pre-made group that pugs have zero chance against are the big mechs set up as brawlers that are able to move close thanks to ecm and then charge and kill everyone fast. Pre-ecm the LRM kept the skilled players in slow mechs that were set up as brawlers from getting close easily, now they can get close as a group and take advantage of there skill and high alpha dps and team work to win every time. I must admit, when I keep running into these types of pre-mades I will quit for a few hours and start playing again once these groups are done for the night.

[PhoenixFire55]

Dirkdaring, on 29 January 2013 - 03:47 PM, said:

Someone didn't read the OP post.

Matter of doing sync drops is the same as the matter of 8-man PUG stomping that was being discussed all the time. As of now all it takes for PGI is to make a button in options that allows you to choose if you want to get droped into matches with groups or only PUG matches. Organized groups is a backbone of this community and I hope that when community warfare comes out there will be no to minimum 'PUGs' left.

PGI made the game worse for units by limiting group sizes to 4 but they found a solution. I believe you do forget that there is only a chance for them both 4-man groups to end up on the same side. There is also a great chance they'll end up on different sides. Trust me when I say it, they'll enjoy it as much as being on same team if not more.

Somehow organized units and groups always find fun in the game even when smb tryes to take it away from them. And yet somehow 'lone-wolves' always find smth to cry and complain about.

It is PUG-whine that destroyes the game, not people who group and play together using teamwork that is so OP.

[Ilwrath]

PhoenixFire55, on 30 January 2013 - 12:55 AM, said:

It is PUG-whine that destroyes the game, not people who group and play together using teamwork that is so OP.

This is wrong. The numbers of solo players far outnumber the premade noobs in the general gaming population. The devs cannot make a game focused on the premades unless they enforce pre-start setup of groups. And they don't do that.

The game need much more customers and therefore they can safely ignore the premade whining and focus on making the game better for solo-players.

The best is to make the game good for both groups, like WoT does, but if they have to make a hard choice... its not really hard at all: ignore the weaklings that cannot play unless they have a huge advantage by pre-grouping up.

This is a fact.

Edited by Ilwrath, 30 January 2013 - 01:25 AM.

[Thirdstar]

Ilwrath, on 30 January 2013 - 01:24 AM, said:

This is wrong. The numbers of solo players far outnumber the premade noobs in the general gaming population. The devs cannot make a game focused on the premades unless they enforce pre-start setup of groups. And they don't do that.

I would LOVE to see what happens if they put in a proper premade restriction. Make it so you can't start in a match unless you have a minimum grouped size of two. Get rid of PUG play.

If nothing else it'll be an amazing experiment.

[Ilwrath]

Thirdstar, on 30 January 2013 - 01:47 AM, said:

I would LOVE to see what happens if they put in a proper premade restriction. Make it so you can't start in a match unless you have a minimum grouped size of two. Get rid of PUG play.

If nothing else it'll be an amazing experiment.

With a lobby this could work. It would still be pug (pick up group) and they need integrated voice that works for it.

Even I would group up then but I really prefer to play alone. If you are unable to stand alone, you don't deserve to stand at all. Of course we all know that the intense whining about matchmaking is really about premade players that don't want their pug-stomp to end.

They HATE the idea of a pure 4+4 vs 4+4 que. Most of them already hate the 8 vs 8 que so there you go...

Edited by Ilwrath, 30 January 2013 - 01:58 AM.

[Hades Trooper]

Dr Killinger, on 29 January 2013 - 04:15 AM, said:

Shouldn't you rather be dropping into 8 mans? I mean, you have enough members, just curious as to why you're still doing 4 mans? I'm actually starting to think that a 4 man in itself is too much of an advantage to pit against a group of puggers.

I agree with OP 100%, and I really hope that matchmaking phase 3 fixes this.

! reason i can see being a HHoD member is that 8 man groups take too much effort, when i play it's mainly now during the aussie night time and getting an 8 man together, getting ready to drop and then people having to go and come back again, it's just easier to run 4 man groups.

late of a night it gets to the point where where almost in the same group of 2 4man's but then the other sides are 50% of the time also.

To me also, with so many new recruits to play and get to know, 8 man groups can turn really ugly fast as people get stomped, much eaiser to get people up to speed and learn the game in a 4man group.

[Kadaje]

I have been in plenty of games where we rolled the enemy, we're just a 4 man, or even pugging (obviously not as much). I've also been on the receiving end of a roll for 10 games straight, and I think people greatly overrate the number of people sync dropping. It happens, but to say premades are ruining the game and everyone is sync dropping against you is crap. It doesn't take an 8 man to roll a pug group 8-0 or 8-2, just pugs getting caught out away from their allies so they can be FF.

When so few people communicate anything in group chat I have trouble sympathizing for these posts. I knew after the first week that I'd enjoy the coordination of a premade group more, got on TS3 and have been having fun since. Does this mean im not supposed to have fun? As a premade I usually try to type our plan as it changes so the pugs can have an idea what we're trying to accomplish. When they listen, we can finish games 8-0, etc... So unless you consistently see the same 8 people dropping on the same team, you're probably not getting sync dropped as much as you think.

[Ilwrath]

Kadaje, on 30 January 2013 - 02:49 AM, said:

you're probably not getting sync dropped as much as you think.

Maybe 1 in 20 will be a sync drop so it is not the main problem, at least not in EU prime.
The main problem is that often will 50% of one team be premade and up against a pure pub.
Simply ensuring that both teams got one premade will help a lot with this and make the game better.

[roflplanes]

Ilwrath, on 30 January 2013 - 01:57 AM, said:

They HATE the idea of a pure 4+4 vs 4+4 que. Most of them already hate the 8 vs 8 que so there you go...

You obviously either don't listen very well or simply enjoy whining. No one uses the 8-man queue because its lack of tonnage matching renders it an absolutely useless assault-brawl every match. Use your search button, find my post in THIS THREAD, read it, and if you still don't understand why we prefer 4-man crews, you simply don't understand the game at all.

[Ilwrath]

roflplanes, on 30 January 2013 - 07:31 AM, said:

No one uses the 8-man queue because its lack of tonnage matching renders it an absolutely useless assault-brawl every match.

And what is the problem? How does this justifying you and your kind tainting up the pub games? Some premades is tainting up the 8 vs 8 so then you ******** cry and do the same in the pub que? You suck!

Edited by Ilwrath, 30 January 2013 - 07:46 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Greyfyl, on 29 January 2013 - 03:41 PM, said:

Have you ever worked with salesmen/marketing people? Just a question because you seem pretty naive about the whole situation. I'm not accusing anyone of downright lying, but I do think that there is no way PGI is going to out right admit that pugstomping is a huge issue, it would be another black mark on what has not been the most impressive of OB's.

I personally have never made a claim to the devs directly or here on the forums that at such and such a time I was rolled by a premade, please confirm this for me. I don't think I've ever seen anyone do that. So I have to take what was posted today by PGI with a grain of salt. I personally have verified plenty of games against premades, yes they were in the us TS dropships. This isn't rocket science.

By the way, have you seen the list of active TS servers lately? There are quite a few, and not too many of them are doing 8 mans from what I keep hearing, so who exactly are they playing against if they aren't beating up on pugs?

And actually you are whining about whining so how does that make you any better than anyone else?

The simple question is this:

Would having premades on both teams on average produce better matches then games in which there is a premade on one team only?

Of course it would, if you argue that this would not be a better solution than what we have now you are simply being combative or trolling or desperately trying to keep the 'unfair advantage' that you have now - the bolded quote here being directly how Garth phrased it. And no I'm not saying put this in place instead of ELO, I'm saying put them both into effect at the same time.

Unfair advantage?
If I use two Gauss on a Catapult is it an Unfair advantage or just an advantage?
LRMs can kill brawlers at a distance, Unfair advantage or just an advantage?
TS can be used by almost everyone, Unfair advantage or just an advantage?
6 SRMs on a Cat, Unfair advantage or just an advantage?

[Yokaiko]

Unfair my hass.

Unless you are deaf of have family issues anyone can log into the public Constar relays, that would be the definition of ..."public".

[roflplanes]

Ilwrath, on 30 January 2013 - 07:46 AM, said:

And what is the problem? How does this justifying you and your kind tainting up the pub games? Some premades is tainting up the 8 vs 8 so then you ******** cry and do the same in the pub que? You suck!

Here's the difference. There's a SMALL chance that a PUG will be matched against two 4-man teams. There is a DEFINITE tonnage mismatch in EVERY SINGLE 8-man drop. PUGs can combat their woes by simply playing the game as it was meant to be played (with a team?) but premade teams have no balancing option BUT to play in 4-man teams instead.

Now you're just being silly and obstinate. Big words, I know, but trust me you are.

[M4NTiC0R3X]

I was a warden, then I saw this thread and became a crusader.

[silentD11]

Ilwrath, on 30 January 2013 - 07:46 AM, said:

And what is the problem? How does this justifying you and your kind tainting up the pub games? Some premades is tainting up the 8 vs 8 so then you ******** cry and do the same in the pub que? You suck!

It's not that. The amount of premades is so small they had to remove drop restrictions or it would be impossible to find a match to what you dropped with. But this has had the effect of turning 8v8 into a bit of a mess that frankly isn't fun to play at all. And if one of your guys wants to goof around with a build, level up some new stuff, or just doesn't find the meta fun then 8v8 might as well not exist.

People want to play with their friends because the game is currently kinda stale without it. There aren't any really new maps, 12v12 is not here, and faction war is not here. Sadly 8v8 is currently a broken mess.

[MaddMaxx]

Ilwrath, on 30 January 2013 - 07:46 AM, said:

And what is the problem? How does this justifying you and your kind tainting up the pub games? Some premades is tainting up the 8 vs 8 so then you ******** cry and do the same in the pub que? You suck!

How old are you dude? That statement makes you sound like a 9 year old. Grow up and read what is written. WTH is "You Suck!" supposed to mean? Really!

[MW Waldorf Statler]

Some of these Wimmerer because Premades remind me of people who want to drive a car, but that's too heavy ... all these rules and the long time that I want to go now ... I just steal me a car without a driver's license to learn ...
let me win or I cheate and use bots ... the world is bad, because they will not let me into power .. all these evil people who do not recognize my genius, my abilities ... I am God, otherwise, I'll punish all so subdue, you me

11% of the Mankind consists of hyper-aggressive dominant schizoid antisocial dangerous Individueen

[Joseph Mallan]

Ummm could you say that in MechWarrior terms... I've been driving a car for way to many years to understand the example CSJ