455 replies to this topic

[Erik Jast]

Dimento Graven, on 30 January 2013 - 12:34 PM, said:

The game is designed for team play. PGI has stated that communication is key to success.

Suck it up pug'ers, find a merc group to join, download a VOIP solution, shut the F up about it already.

Yes, your amazing douchey attitude will draw the masses of pugs to join you and your premade. Douchebag is douchey.

[Kristov Kerensky]

Ilwrath, on 30 January 2013 - 01:57 AM, said:

With a lobby this could work. It would still be pug (pick up group) and they need integrated voice that works for it.

Even I would group up then but I really prefer to play alone. If you are unable to stand alone, you don't deserve to stand at all. Of course we all know that the intense whining about matchmaking is really about premade players that don't want their pug-stomp to end.

They HATE the idea of a pure 4+4 vs 4+4 que. Most of them already hate the 8 vs 8 que so there you go...

Normally I avoid doing this, especially with someone this obviously...yeah...anyway...

First off, I've agreed that having the match maker put a premade of equal size on both teams is a great idea, so have almost all of the others in this very thread who agree with me that the whining about premades is just that, whining. PGI has now twice put out statements that the premades are NOT the evil bastiches that people are making them out to be and that most of the roflstomping is actually being done by pubbies and not premades. For some reason, people ignore that information and continue to insist that premades are evil, the spawn of the devil, the 5th Horseman and the bringers of DOOOOOMMMM!!!!11!1!!!!!!!!!!1111111

Currently, we have 2 types in MWO, those who use teamwork and those who villify the former. Guess which side you belong to Ilwrath, you and all the others screaming that premades are ruining the game and will be it's death?

Let me see..'I can't use TS because of *insert reason here*'. Does this make you incapable of trying to work as a team member when you DO drop? I do it all the time, dropping by myself, not using TS, but instead hitting the Y key and giving basic information or instructions to my teammates ingame. I know, I know, I'm expecting others to play a team oriented game like a team member, how godsdamned stupid is that? What in the nine hells was I thinking! I don't know..maybe I was thinking...this is a team oriented game and team play should be the NORM, not the exception? I know, I'm a dumbass, that's like going to the gas station to get gas, just how dumb can I get?

See Ilwrath, you and those like you screaming that premades are killing this game and that PGI should cater to the solo only players, you folks TOTALLY miss what MWO is about. What I'm seeing from you Ilwrath and those like you is real simple...this game is all about YOU, how many kills you get and how many wins you get. There is no team, it's just YOU, the star, those other guys..they are just support characters, there to make sure you look good. Little secret for ya bub..you got the wrong game.

This really isn't the game for the casual player who'll give maybe 15 minutes a week to playing and expects to be anything but cannon fodder. This is a team oriented PvP game where your options are fight as a team member or fight as a team member OR, third and final choice, don't play as a team member and die badly as Rambo.

You don't HAVE to join a unit and fight with the same folks day in and day out until you all know each other's movements and patterns without thinking. That's very helpful but it's not even remotely required to do well in MWO. All you have to do is 1 simple thing...play as a team member. It ain't all about YOU bub, it's about the team, YOU don't win the TEAM wins. Starting to sound like a bleedin high school sports coach, but you know what? It's true, that IS how MWO works, teamwork is the key to victory and if you don't play as a team member, you can't expect anything but pain and misery for your time.

[Dimento Graven]

Erik Jast, on 30 January 2013 - 12:42 PM, said:

Yes, your amazing douchey attitude will draw the masses of pugs to join you and your premade. Douchebag is douchey.

What ever, at least I haven't been the one QQ'ing about a problem that really isn't a problem.

You want to win more? You have to have better communication, and as PGI has told us:

Quote

How does gameplay work?

MechWarrior Online puts MechWarriors into a first-person, team-based, tactical battlefield where the victors swim in the spoils of war and are rewarded with the almighty C-Bill (in-game currency).

Each team has 8 players and the two teams are pitted in combat in an enclosed battlefield. Communication is key, be it in-game chat, integrated C3, or a third party VOIP solution, keeping in constant communication with your teammates will drastically increase your team’s chances of success.

The various weight classes of BattleMechs help create their own evolving roles on the battlefield. Fast moving scouts can feed target and tactical information back to the main battle group and the team commander. This information allows the support and assault role pilots to decide where to put their resources to work. Long-range fire support and heavy hitting assault class Mechs will use this invaluable information to finish the job at hand. It is up to you, the pilot, to customize your BattleMech’s loadout and electronic systems to fulfill the role you want to take.

It's not ME telling you this, it's PGI, I'm only the messenger your true '**********' is apparently PGI and again, the answer has been given.

Join a group. Use VOIP.

[Serapth]

If you lost one in every two matches to a broken gameplay mechanic, would you complain?

1 in 3?
1 in 5?

At what point would you accept being screwed by the game as being appropriate?

[Ghost_19Hz]

If everyone would stop being so defensive on this subject(esp. the derrr comments about PGI design this way join a cool guy clan and rainbows will fly out of your butt), you would easily see that if someone has several bad first experiences/matches with any game anywhere, they will not attribute it to, "oh they designed this game for TeamSpeak and Clans." they will however say, "Hm, this isn't very fun. Bye."
The problem seems not to lie with the really good 8 man teams, it seems to lie with the ones whom avoid 8v8 premades. Since its completely random right now, even 4 man pre-made teams could be rolled into this since if you get two 4 mans vs. 8 pug/trials, its the same terrible experience as two 4 man pre-mades sync dropping. Not sure what we can do about it, as i hate terrible pug teams the same as anyone, but i pug more than i play pre-mades. Most discussion on this subject should be held after phase 3 anyway. Then the real criticism can begin.

[Dimento Graven]

Serapth, on 30 January 2013 - 12:52 PM, said:

If you lost one in every two matches to a broken gameplay mechanic, would you complain?

1 in 3?
1 in 5?

At what point would you accept being screwed by the game as being appropriate?

The problem YOU have as pug'er is PROVING that each time you supposedly got 'screwed by the game' it was because you were in a match with pre-mades.

Again, you PUG'ers have the issue of complaining that pre-mades are apparently so prevelant that they're ruining the game for the solo player, OR, that PGI is focusing on making the supposedly extreme minority of pre-mades happy and ignoring the VAST number of pure PUGs out there.

Sorry, but you can't have it both ways.

Either

1. There are so many pre-mades that PUG'ing is too difficult, in which case that means that most matches and most players are playing in pre-mades and therefore PGI is RIGHT in thinking they need to accomodate this majority customer base

OR

2. The vast majority of players are actually PUGs, in which case MOST of your losses are to OTHER PUGs who are just better than you, and there is no real pre-made problem.

Take your pick and get consistant.

[Erik Jast]

It's funny, the premades that are talking smack to Pugs are afraid of heading into 8v8 themselves. They of course have their own creative excuses but apparently, their excuses of not playing in 8v8 is more valid than a pug player's excuse of not wanting to join a premade. Such hypocrites it's hilarious. Grow a sack, go play 8v8 instead of ezmode pugstomping.

[Dimento Graven]

PythonCPT, on 30 January 2013 - 12:59 PM, said:

If everyone would stop being so defensive on this subject(esp. the derrr comments about PGI design this way join a cool guy clan and rainbows will fly out of your butt), you would easily see that if someone has several bad first experiences/matches with any game anywhere, they will not attribute it to, "oh they designed this game for TeamSpeak and Clans." they will however say, "Hm, this isn't very fun. Bye."
The problem seems not to lie with the really good 8 man teams, it seems to lie with the ones whom avoid 8v8 premades. Since its completely random right now, even 4 man pre-made teams could be rolled into this since if you get two 4 mans vs. 8 pug/trials, its the same terrible experience as two 4 man pre-mades sync dropping. Not sure what we can do about it, as i hate terrible pug teams the same as anyone, but i pug more than i play pre-mades. Most discussion on this subject should be held after phase 3 anyway. Then the real criticism can begin.

You're still wrong this isn't just a simple 'comment' made by a single employee of PGI. The statement I keep quoting is a core premise about this game's design, period.

This isn't Garth making an ill thought out comment, talking out his wazoo again, this is part of the game's presentation to the public.

So you can't dismiss it like that. I know you'd like to, but, you have to face facts, this is a TEAM based game that requires CONSTANT communication, therefore, anyone who is NOT forming teams, and NOT communicating with people on his side is at a disadvantage, not an unfair one, one that person out of arrogant ignorance has decided to maintain. At any point in time a PUG can go find a merc group to join, download a FREE VOIP solution and the disadvantage is gone.

That doesn't mean the PUG can't EVER play as a solitary PUG ever again. I know I still play as PUG, but I also don't cray and whine when a pre-made happens to kick my butt. OF COURSE THEY DID, they could coordinate better, they didn't ahve to stop firing and aiming and piloting their mech to type in a message to the rest of the team who may or may not have seen the message before it disappeared.

It would be stupid of me to get mad at the pre-made.

Erik Jast, on 30 January 2013 - 01:03 PM, said:

It's funny, the premades that are talking smack to Pugs are afraid of heading into 8v8 themselves. They of course have their own creative excuses but apparently, their excuses of not playing in 8v8 is more valid than a pug player's excuse of not wanting to join a premade. Such hypocrites it's hilarious. Grow a sack, go play 8v8 instead of ezmode pugstomping.

Not this pre-made. I do 8 man drops quite a bit. Not ALL the time, but certainly enough that you can't be talking to me.

Of course, you as a PUG talking smack to pre-mades about not playing 8v8, when it is CLEARLY impossible for you to do the same, well now... Your lack of sack must be much deeper than theirs is.

At least they're brave enough to have the option.

You're too much of a chicken **** to even make it available to yourself.

Edited by Dimento Graven, 30 January 2013 - 01:09 PM.

[Elandyll]

Dimento Graven, on 30 January 2013 - 12:47 PM, said:

What ever, at least I haven't been the one QQ'ing about a problem that really isn't a problem.

You want to win more? You have to have better communication, and as PGI has told us:




It's not ME telling you this, it's PGI, I'm only the messenger your true '**********' is apparently PGI and again, the answer has been given.

Join a group. Use VOIP.

And I'm sorry to point out that you are QQing about the QQing...

Read that quote again ... Integrated C3 VOIP? Where?

Shouldn't that come with the game, which is supposd to be Team based FPS?
Refering your players to a third party to hide your own deficiencies is rather balsy I have to say.

For Puggers who cannot/ will not join a clan or random people on a 3rd party software, VOIP should already be within MWO (putting you automatically in a VOIP group when starting a game), along with a Lobby and better matchmaking. THIS is the bread and butter of any competitive Team based Online FPS.

Until then, you might as well refrain from reading those threads, because I'm pretty sure that they -Will- continue.

Edited by Elandyll, 30 January 2013 - 01:12 PM.

[Kristov Kerensky]

Serapth, on 30 January 2013 - 12:52 PM, said:

If you lost one in every two matches to a broken gameplay mechanic, would you complain?

1 in 3?
1 in 5?

At what point would you accept being screwed by the game as being appropriate?

Are you serious with that question? I guess you are...wow...do you ALWAYS blame others for your inability?

Hey guys, I think we found the true issue behind the complaints about premades...

[Dimento Graven]

Elandyll, on 30 January 2013 - 01:12 PM, said:

And I'm sorry to point out that you are QQing about the QQing...

Read that quote again ... Integrated C3 VOIP? Where?

Shouldn't that come with the game, which is supposd to be Team based FPS?
Refering your players to a third party to hide your own deficiencies is rather balsy I have to say.

For Puggers who cannot/ will not join a clan or random people on a 3rd party software, VOIP should already be within MWO (putting you automatically in a VOIP group when starting a game), along with a Lobby and better matchmaking. THIS is the bread and butter of any competitive Team based Online FPS.

Until then, you might as well refrain from reading those threads, because I'm pretty sure that they -Will- continue.

Wait, wait, wait, wait...

You're telling me, that after having downloaded and installed a FREE TO PLAY game, you're suddenly unwilling to use a FREE TO DOWNLOAD, INSTALL, AND USE, VOIP solution, because it's not automatically included?!?!!?!

You're also telling me that this BETA, IE: VERY INCOMPLETE GAME, should RIGHT NOW have EVERYTHING you need, all included to be part of a team?

Yeeeeaaaahhhhh... I think the 'unreasonableness' of your position has been properly demonstrated.

Thank you very much, you may move along.

[Elandyll]

Dimento Graven, on 30 January 2013 - 01:16 PM, said:

Wait, wait, wait, wait...

You're telling me, that after having downloaded and installed a FREE TO PLAY game, you're suddenly unwilling to use a FREE TO DOWNLOAD, INSTALL, AND USE, VOIP solution, because it's not automatically included?!?!!?!

You're also telling me that this BETA, IE: VERY INCOMPLETE GAME, should RIGHT NOW have EVERYTHING you need, all included to be part of a team?

Yeeeeaaaahhhhh... I think the 'unreasonableness' of your position has been properly demonstrated.

Thank you very much, you may move along.

Where did I say that "I" was unwilling? You have no idea of my circumstances, so why don't you and your childish QQ about QQing move along yourself?

As per the "IT'S BETA!!" argument, I won't get back in that, suffice to know that people are paying for service to know where the "actual" status of the game is at.

Last, if you think it's fine and dandy to have an Online Team based FPS without core functionnalities like Lobby, Matchmaking and integrated VOIP ... I have a few Castles in Spain for you. Bridge too. Lots.

Lol.

[Dimento Graven]

Elandyll, on 30 January 2013 - 01:20 PM, said:

Where did I say that "I" was unwilling? You have no idea of my circumstances, so why don't you and your childish QQ about QQing move along yourself?

As per the "IT'S BETA!!" argument, I won't get back in that, suffice to know that people are paying for service to know where the "actual" status of the game is at.

Last, if you think it's fine and dandy to have an Online Team based FPS without core functionnalities like Lobby, Matchmaking and integrated VOIP ... I have a few Castles in Spain for you. Bridge too. Lots.

Lol.

No, you don't get to dismiss my points like that after all the posts and such. According to your own comments about how things "should be" in this incomplete game it's quite easy to see that there's some sort of issue you have with dowloading and utilizing a thrid party solution.

Also, it's FREE. FREEEEEEEEEEEE. You don't have to pay one dime to play if you don't want to. You can! The rest of us who have contributed by paying for something would appreciate your contributions as well to keep the ball rolling on development, BUT, over and above that, again, it's FREE.

Your issues with PGI referring you to a third party VOIP solution again, it's a matter of prioritizing where that money those of us who have contributed, goes to. They could, spend lots of money building a their own VOIP for the game, taking money away from content such as new mechs, maps, game modes, weapons, etc., or taking money away from addressing bugs like the client issues that make dropping 8's so problematic, or visual crap like yellow screens, black screens, rainbow huds, netcode, etc.. My preference, hey TS, Ventrillo, C3 are all well developed, and maintained by third parties, they don't cost me a dime, don't cost PGI any of the money I've invested in them, so hey... Why not?

As far as 'lobbies', maybe that's coming, probably well later, but in the mean time, you want a lobby, go join a merc group, get on their VOIP server, and THERE YOU GO!

Again, FREEEEEEEEE!!!

Let PGI concentrate on stuff that the whole community can use. What good is a lobby if your match maker can't balance teams? What good is a 100% integrated VOIP if the client craps out and you keep having to restart your system?

What good is any of it if the community gets tired of the same old 'mechs on the same old maps playing on the same 2 modes?

There is no problem here other than PUGs lose (apparently a lot), and when they lose, they decide to blame pre-mades, whether or not they were actually present at the time of the butt kicking.

[Kristov Kerensky]

Elandyll, on 30 January 2013 - 01:20 PM, said:

Where did I say that "I" was unwilling? You have no idea of my circumstances, so why don't you and your childish QQ about QQing move along yourself?

As per the "IT'S BETA!!" argument, I won't get back in that, suffice to know that people are paying for service to know where the "actual" status of the game is at.

Last, if you think it's fine and dandy to have an Online Team based FPS without core functionnalities like Lobby, Matchmaking and integrated VOIP ... I have a few Castles in Spain for you. Bridge too. Lots.

Lol.

http://mwomercs.com/...ogs-interviews/

You and the others like you who just don't understand that this game isn't even at the halfway point in feature inclusion and development REALLY need to read the posts in that link, I mean seriously read those posts.

Once you've read them, you should start to view this game as so many of us do, a software project still in the early cycle of development that's following it's design docs. As opposed to the complete and totally unbalanced and halfassed piece of fecal matter that you seem to view it as.

[Greyfyl]

Dimento Graven, on 30 January 2013 - 01:33 PM, said:

There is no problem here other than PUGs lose (apparently a lot), and when they lose, they decide to blame pre-mades, whether or not they were actually present at the time of the butt kicking.

What you mean to say is: 'From where I'm standing playing at an advantage there is no problem here at all."

If there was 'no problem' why would PGI even bother with phase 3? I mean according to you everything is fine the way it is now. Imagine that.

Edited by Greyfyl, 30 January 2013 - 02:28 PM.

[Kristov Kerensky]

Greyfyl, on 30 January 2013 - 02:28 PM, said:

What you mean to say is: 'From where I'm standing playing at an advantage there is no problem here at all."

If there was 'no problem' why would PGI even bother with phase 3? I mean according to you everything is fine the way it is now. Imagine that.

Have you read what phase 3 does? The inclusion of 12v12, matching premades with and against pubbies, ranking system to try and balance out who's facing who so the matches are possibly more 'fair'. You only saw that last bit huh..ranking system and fair..that's what you got from phase 3 and you totally missed the rest.

You see, PGI has actually looked at the numbers, unlike you Grey, and they know exactly how badly the premades are bending the pubbies over, so badly that it's not happening enough to be an actual issue by any measure, so badly that they are going to continue letting premades and pubbies face each other in phase 3. Yeah, the problem with premades roflstomping pubbies is SO bad that it doesn't actually exist and hasn't existed all along, at least, that's what the actual data from the servers is showing according to PGI.

Let me guess..PGI is lying...

[Bfvmg]

Dimento Graven, on 30 January 2013 - 12:24 PM, said:

First, I keep seeing people assume that there are more pugs than there are pre-mades and stating that as fact. I don't believe it, and until PGI opens 'the books' as far as the match maker is concerned we'll never know. I believe that every drop, and I mean every drop has had some number of pre-mades, be it a single 2 man team, or multiple 4-man teams on both sides, pretty much every drop contains some pre-mades. If there were as many pugs out there as people claim, I wouldn't continuously be dropping with groups where the match maker can't find an 8th person for the team. Also, let's not confuse the hard core 'lone wolf' with a PAYING customer.

Quite right Dimento.

They are saying that the vast majority of people dropping are pugs, and that the premades, especially the 4x4 synch droped premades are killing teh games.

However, (and it was Bishop Steiner that started this) if teh vast majority of people dropping are pugs, then how are the premades stomping ll over them everytime?

By their logic, if there are THAT many premades stomping them, then the pugs are NOT the vast majority they are claiming.

Personally, I am done with this. I have tuned out the whining and crying, and becasue I am so sick of the whining and crying, I will continue to "Synch Drop" as often as I can to make them whine and cry more.

[Serapth]

Amazing how far the skillless will go to save their crutch while being too cowardly to face real competition in the form of 8 mans.

You know what else PGI stated... in this thread?

That premades due have an unfair advantage and are a bunch of cowardly peons, who have the ability to face proper competition but instead choose to abuse pugs.

Bfvmg, on 30 January 2013 - 02:43 PM, said:

Quite right Dimento.

They are saying that the vast majority of people dropping are pugs, and that the premades, especially the 4x4 synch droped premades are killing teh games.

However, (and it was Bishop Steiner that started this) if teh vast majority of people dropping are pugs, then how are the premades stomping ll over them everytime?

By their logic, if there are THAT many premades stomping them, then the pugs are NOT the vast majority they are claiming.

Personally, I am done with this. I have tuned out the whining and crying, and becasue I am so sick of the whining and crying, I will continue to "Synch Drop" as often as I can to make them whine and cry more.

Once again, does it even matter?

If premades are dropping and stomping by the simple fact they are premades and nothing more, this needs to be addressed, even if its only 25% of matches.

[Bryan Kerensky]

To be frank and honest, whether I PUG or run with fellow members, I can't tell who is in a premade or who is in a PUG unless someone explicitly tells me or I recognize names on the other or mine.

It should be noted that contrary to popular belief, 4 mans are not screaming over the mike telling each other enemy positions, movement order or focus fire targets. This should be relatively ingrained into most veteran players which is why TS will either be completely silent with the occasional quip or noisy about things other than mechwarrior. The majority of my merc corp members will move to their positions, focus fire on targets that present themselves as such and move to locations they feel adequate to deal damage or get a good view on the enemy, others will simply follow based on what they feel is best.

[Particle Man]

SiorAlpin Wolf, on 29 January 2013 - 03:57 AM, said:

I have seen at least 20 people that play MW TT get excited about playing MWO then when they actually play its all good until they realise that pug grps are mixed with pre-mades

How would they "realize" this unless there's some ******** douche over their shoulder saying things like "OMG YOU LOST! THEY MUST BE SYNCDROPPING!". Not every stomping you get is from a sync drop, and an alleged new player isnt going to know W TF you're talking about. Standing over people's shoulders doing the same thing you're doing here, stirring up trouble based on no facts, is not any more useful.

I think OP's story is bullships and he's just making yet another QQ thread because he sucks and cant comprehend that it's possible that some people are just better than him. It's the same thing as that 12 year old that screams about hwo everyone is hacking only because he lost.
pics or it didnt happen.