203 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

Tennex, on 29 January 2013 - 05:34 PM, said:

hopefully a nerf will still come. because it really needss one. defies all logic.

whilst I may not always be in agreement with you.. love the inclusion of the Urbie in your Sig. Very subtle!

[MrPenguin]

Monky, on 29 January 2013 - 05:37 PM, said:

Are you really resorting to attempting to troll someone over a disagreement about a video game? Also, you are referring to psychosis. Insanity is not necessarily psychosis, but I'm sure you understood my intent and are just being a **** about it.

If anyone is trolling. Its you.

Also, I thought you where going to ignore everything people had to say. You're already contradicting yourself buddy.

[Monky]

MrPenguin, on 29 January 2013 - 05:34 PM, said:

Okay then, theirs the door ----------------------->

If you're going to say this, then mean it. If not, then shut it.

If you lack the intelligence and maturity to have a proper debate with someone else on a public forum then don't bother replying at all. Making childish posts like this only shows us your complete lack of maturity.

I made a statement as to how I felt on the first page of the thread, sorry that's not enough for you. Additionally, I was referring to it not being worthwhile to try to talk to PGI about it, and I have already gotten my refund. I keep coming back out of some vain hope I guess. I will say, for sake of keeping you on your toes - it looks childish to throw out ultimatums and judgements/thinly veiled insults as if you are on a high horse (particularly without having read what has been said).

Edited by Monky, 29 January 2013 - 05:45 PM.

[Orzorn]

Bishop Steiner, on 29 January 2013 - 05:32 PM, said:

No , I don't have any FRAPS or such. I do have hundred of similar posts from users ever since CD stating the same thing. And my own eyes, having regualrly used Awesome 8Qs and Catapult K2s where on match I snap shot a mech at 200 meters and bang, perfect, focused damage.. dead mech. Then go several matches where I can land 20 dual volleys into the CT of a stationary Atlas (have even done this to AFK ones for experiments . now that I have Afterburner installed, I actually might need to do this again, come to think of it.. PROJECT TIME!)) and it finally turns yellow.

See, that makes me believe that is related to the laser/srm damage issue discovered about a week ago. Some of those weapons weren't doing the right amount of damage, and others, like lasers, were doing too much. PPCs may very well be affected by the same bug, or perhaps a bug of their own. Regardless, I remember comments from a dev saying that PPCs use a projectile that is actually the same size as an autocannon round, and hits the same way. So if PPCs are "spreading" (or, from what it sounds, just not doing the proper damage), then its likely a bug, and not by design.

Edited by Orzorn, 29 January 2013 - 05:42 PM.

[Suprentus]

Monky, on 29 January 2013 - 05:37 PM, said:

Are you really resorting to attempting to troll someone over a disagreement about a video game?

I prefer the term "calling out BS." You can call it trolling if you like though. Should I be doing something more productive with my time than posting about a video game?

Monky, on 29 January 2013 - 05:37 PM, said:

Also, you are referring to psychosis.

No, I'm not.

Monky, on 29 January 2013 - 05:37 PM, said:

Insanity is not necessarily psychosis, but I'm sure you understood my intent and are just being a **** about it.

I understood your intent. It was a dismissive, catch-all term you decided to use to absolve yourself from having to face any facts, and my intent was to show you the uselessness of that approach. Really, if you want to check out, then just check out. I've shut the door on arguments before because I didn't feel like dealing with it. I don't make excuses for it though.

[MrPenguin]

Monky, on 29 January 2013 - 05:39 PM, said:

I made a statement as to how I felt on the first page of the thread, sorry that's not enough for you.

So, your response is to act like a child to anyone who has a counter argument? Thats absurd.

You want to know how to act like in a debate?

Look at tennex and bishops posts.

Of course, I disagree with them. But at least they can acknowledge counter-arguments and form there own reply with out resorting to ear plugging "LALALALA!" like you did.

Seriously, a forum is about having a conversation on both ends. If your only reason for being here is to shove your opinion down our throats and not even listen to any kind of counter-argument then theirs literally no reason for you to be here.

Edited by MrPenguin, 29 January 2013 - 05:46 PM.

[Sable Dove]

Let's not forget that PPCs have a minimum range of 90m. Meaning just about the only ECM it will cancel is the D-DC.

[Bishop Steiner]

Orzorn, on 29 January 2013 - 05:41 PM, said:

See, that makes me believe that is related to the laser/srm damage issue discovered about a week ago. Some of those weapons weren't doing the right amount of damage, and others, like lasers, were doing too much. PPCs may very well be affected by the same bug, or perhaps a bug of their own. Regardless, I remember comments from a dev saying that PPCs use a projectile that is actually the same size as an autocannon round, and hits the same way. So if PPCs are "spreading" (or, from what it sounds, just not doing the proper damage), then its likely a bug, and not by design.

Very possible.. the point being, though, whether by design, or by bug, most of the people I have seen saying the PPC needed a buff, have only asked for one thing... consistent damage. Hence, instead of adding effects... either adjust the weapon, or hunt the bug.

It is rather akin to adding really nice rims and a ballin stereo, when I bring in a Ford Pinto, with a bad engine. All the bells and whistles don't actually address the reason I brought the car into the shop in the first place, ya know?

My long held complaint, and really, my only one, in this game, is that they should have made all the core tech and build stable and balanced FIRST, then started adding thing s like advanced tech. Instead, to this day, we see them constantly tweaking all the weapons that should have been a baseline for everything else, so every time you tweak A to "fix" B, you end up breaking C.

If they had simply balanced and "perfected" the core, 3025 tech first, THEN added new tech base off a SOLID baseline, I think we would not have 90% of the issues we see the Nerf/Buff yo-yo being used to "fix".

[MrPenguin]

Sable Dove, on 29 January 2013 - 05:47 PM, said:

Let's not forget that PPCs have a minimum range of 90m. Meaning just about the only ECM it will cancel is the D-DC.

You missread that.
Bellow 90m's, the damage degrades. PPC's still do damage below 90. AFAIK the lower you go, the less damage you do.

As far as the effect, I'm willing to bet it will work at any range. You might not do much damage, but I don't see why the effect wouldn't proc.

[Monky]

Judging by your posts, it's a place for you to gang up on an out of context point without even looking at the entire thread. No one has even responded to what I said, it was never countered nor do I expect it to be, because it was fairly matter of fact analyses that this is not an effective ECM counter and really just a side gimmick. Everyone blew up over me saying that buffing everything else in order to counter a single thing (ECM) is indicative of poor design. Which it is. There is no instance in any game ever that this isn't the case.

Then come the philosophy arguments and the general internet dickery.

If you want to tilt at windmills, I'll spin for ya.

[Deamhan]

All they needed to do was to change it so that TAG allowed the user to obtain a lock within the bubble. However, this extended window that can be created will make hitting ECM lights with streaks a whole lot easier.

Next up, EMP missiles. Significantly reduced damage, but can knock out the ECM for 5 seconds.

[Orzorn]

Sable Dove, on 29 January 2013 - 05:47 PM, said:

Let's not forget that PPCs have a minimum range of 90m. Meaning just about the only ECM it will cancel is the D-DC.

PPCs still hit within 90 meters, and in fact, their damage scales linearly downward.

Of course, we'll have to test out and see if PPCs disrupt ECM below 90 meters. I would be surprised if they didn't.

[RoboCyberMummy]

I, for one, welcome our new PPC overlords.

[Suprentus]

Monky, on 29 January 2013 - 05:50 PM, said:

Judging by your posts, it's a place for you to gang up on an out of context point without even looking at the entire thread.

Sorry, but you're not a very good judge. "No ifs, ands, or buts," "I'm done," and falling back on tired old tropes, all in an attempt to dismiss any other possible viewpoint is hard to take out of context. Really, my saying "only Sith deal in absolutes" is really just as effective.

Monky, on 29 January 2013 - 05:50 PM, said:

No one has even responded to what I said, it was never countered nor do I expect it to be, because it was fairly matter of fact analyses that this is not an effective ECM counter and really just a side gimmick. Everyone blew up over me saying that buffing everything else in order to counter a single thing (ECM) is indicative of poor design. Which it is. There is no instance in any game ever that this isn't the case.

Well to address your entire paragraph here, I'll just bring back up an earlier post I made:

Suprentus, on 29 January 2013 - 05:38 PM, said:

...I'm thinking it will definitely need more adjustment than adding a PPC and module effect. I think they're a step in the right direction though, and no one ever said that this is the end-all of adjustments in the game. Personally, I think the module will have more effect against ECM than PPCs. I see the anti-ECM aspect as just a little bonus, and I'll take it. I'm not going to bring PPCs just to counter ECM.

You can consider that a response to your OP, even though it wasn't directly aimed at you. It addresses the concerns of your OP nonetheless.

Monky, on 29 January 2013 - 05:50 PM, said:

Then come the philosophy arguments and the general internet dickery.

If you want to tilt at windmills, I'll spin for ya.

But don't you like exploring the human experience and what makes us tick?

[Tennex]

the current solution seems like a lazy 2 for 1 deal.

that way paul doesn't have to brain too hard about how to actually fix ecm and PPCs.

hopefully thats not true though. and this was just a nice information warfare addition, on top of already planned nerfs and buffs respectively for these items.

[Orzorn]

Tennex, on 29 January 2013 - 06:04 PM, said:

hopefully thats not true though. and this was just a nice information warfare addition, on top of already planned nerfs and buffs respectively for these items.

Honestly, that's what I believe it is.

PPCs were stated to get an EMP effect even before they mentioned doing something about ECM. I don't believe this is the "fix" they had in mind for ECM, rather, its an effect that PPCs were going to have anyways.

Its just that the current situation has people believing that this is the fix.

Then again, I could be wrong.

[Suprentus]

Scissors are OP. Don't buff rock, just nerf scissors.

[Monky]

Suprentus, on 29 January 2013 - 06:04 PM, said:

Sorry, but you're not a very good judge. "No ifs, ands, or buts," "I'm done," and falling back on tired old tropes, all in an attempt to dismiss any other possible viewpoint is hard to take out of context. Really, my saying "only Sith deal in absolutes" is really just as effective.

I suppose to appreciate what I'm saying, you'd have to subscribe to the idea that some things can be known for certain.

[Suprentus]

Monky, on 29 January 2013 - 06:11 PM, said:

I suppose to appreciate what I'm saying, you'd have to subscribe to the idea that some things can be known for certain.

But you can't be certain (ok, well technically you can, but that doesn't make you right). Already, people are starting to think that maybe this isn't a case of "buff everything else just to compete with one thing." Does that not cast uncertainty on your notion?

Edited by Suprentus, 29 January 2013 - 06:17 PM.

[Malora Sidewinder]

probably to some degree, but in order to maximize effectiveness with the EMP effects, a pilot must have some serious precision skill from medium to long range- that is to say they need to be better than the vast majority of pilots ARE. so unless you're one of the best players, no, this will do basically nothing.
I think PPC/ERPPC should have had their damage boosted by 2 as well as the emp effects, but make it 4 seconds instead of 5 in trade off for the damage.