131 replies to this topic

[Sifright]

Any one attempting to justify the fact that we can see enemy weapon load outs but not friendly to decide our tactics is a fool.

Plain and simple. I'm not going to bandy about huge arguments over this. It's logically inconsistent and there is no reason for it.

[AimRobot]

Wolfyop, on 01 February 2013 - 04:09 AM, said:

Is the other way around in MWO you need to know what your team have because its not a no brainer atleast I think thats the goal you know information is ammunition!

Okay i will take a step back, lets say you see your team mech and weapons, what will you do then ?
P.S i dont think we should be able to see enemy loadout.

Edited by AimRobot, 01 February 2013 - 04:23 AM.

[Sifright]

AimRobot, on 01 February 2013 - 04:16 AM, said:

Okay i will take a step back, lets say you see your team mech and weapons, what will you do then ?

Depends on the situation and my current load out.

Do we have a lot of brawlers?

Do we have a lot of LRM boats?

depending on the make up of my team if i am pugging it changes how i behave dramatically.

If im in a SRM6 cat I check the size of the mechs im fielded with if its mostly mediums or lights I can be very cavalier. If I can know the weapon load outs on my team mates I can know who i should stick with as my weapons are short range if we have a similar load out I can work more easily with him.

Whats your reason for NOT wanting to know your own teams load out when you can get the information for what your enemy is using?

by the way saying people will 'copy' their team mates load outs is a stupid counter reason.

Edit:

lastly why should players in a premade team get the advantage of knowing friendly load outs when pugs can't? If you cant see how this kind of information allows for much greater integration of players into a cohesive fighting force i can't help you.

Edited by Sifright, 01 February 2013 - 04:24 AM.

[Wolfyop]

AimRobot, on 01 February 2013 - 04:16 AM, said:

Okay i will take a step back, lets say you see your team mech and weapons, what will you do then ?
P.S i dont think we should be able to see enemy loadout.

What 4 and 8 man premades do?

[AimRobot]

Well cause its ffa, people play for different reasons.
You can meet people who just enter the game and try most basic stuff or then you can run into people who wants to try stuff or people who just dont give a damn that just want to enjoy whatever they do.
Then people will sit and rage/flame over why people arent doing what they are told and end up scaring people off. (FREEdom FOR ALL)

So far i only support the idea in 8man where its hard for the leader to remember everyones loadout.

[OneEyed Jack]

Knowing if that Atlas is a brawler that I should follow or a sniper/LRM boat that I should screen, or giving the players smart enough to look the ability to check the same on me, would be extremely useful. Maybe it would keep some of the idiots from wading into the water in Forest Colony with nothing longer-ranged than a Large Laser. Probably not, but I think it's worth a shot.

[Wolfyop]

AimRobot, on 01 February 2013 - 04:38 AM, said:

Well cause its ffa, people play for different reasons.
You can meet people who just enter the game and try most basic stuff or then you can run into people who wants to try stuff or people who just dont give a damn that just want to enjoy whatever they do.
Then people will sit and rage/flame over why people arent doing what they are told and end up scaring people off. (FREEdom FOR ALL)

So far i only support the idea in 8man where its hard for the leader to remember everyones loadout.

but thats a different matter and the matchmaking its the problem. If you know what your team is capable of you can adapt to them making it easier to play better independent of their skill, when the matchmaking is addressed and you start playing with better players this will make better matches.

Edited by Wolfyop, 01 February 2013 - 04:53 AM.

[Sifright]

AimRobot, on 01 February 2013 - 04:38 AM, said:

Well cause its ffa, people play for different reasons.
You can meet people who just enter the game and try most basic stuff or then you can run into people who wants to try stuff or people who just dont give a damn that just want to enjoy whatever they do.
Then people will sit and rage/flame over why people arent doing what they are told and end up scaring people off. (FREEdom FOR ALL)

So far i only support the idea in 8man where its hard for the leader to remember everyones loadout.

having lead 8 man teams a fair few times (read as I usually get roped into commanding ), I can tell you as a premade player I know the load outs that every one has if i am going to be the leader I don't need friendly target scanning for 8 man groups. If we do split up I assign groupings based mech and weapon load out.

Pugs need this kind of information look up far more than premades do.

[Erasus Magnus]

JSparrowist, on 30 January 2013 - 06:09 AM, said:

I think it would help to see loadouts. How am I supposed to know that I'm following and supporting a `Phract 4X with 4xMG and 1xSL until we reach a line and they start firing their ineffective and useless build?

or on the other side of the spectrum, how often did i follow pug mates that do crap tons of damage (had one phract 4x i guess, which made 1200damage and killed all 8 of the enemy team, just wow)

people could learn a thing or two if they can see their teammates loadout.

[Elessar]

Wolfyop, on 01 February 2013 - 04:52 AM, said:

but thats a different matter and the matchmaking its the problem. If you know what your team is capable of you can adapt to them making it easier to play better independent of their skill, when the matchmaking is addressed and you start playing with better players this will make better matches.

Especially as even in a PUG one of the players can take command (if the other players will follow his commands is quite another thing ... but usually it is a wise thing to do ).
Therefore, even now, knowing what the other players have can increase the chances of PUGs against premades by a great margin (at least if the players play halfway competent (and this is somethign that should be encouraged, even in PUGs ))

[Remarius]

I have some severe doubts that anyone who thinks they have time to target and scan 7 other team mates at the start of a game to see their loadout is making effective use of their time... can't imagine the hell of 8 people all waiting to scan each other... did i miss someone ... no idea lets rescan......

Edited by Remarius, 01 February 2013 - 05:26 AM.

[Bguk]

Sifright, on 01 February 2013 - 04:13 AM, said:

Any one attempting to justify the fact that we can see enemy weapon load outs but not friendly to decide our tactics is a fool.

Plain and simple. I'm not going to bandy about huge arguments over this. It's logically inconsistent and there is no reason for it.

If I remember this thread correctly, those of us who voted no did so on the premise we don't even want to see the enemy loadout. Modules or something similar could be used to inspect it but not given out wholesale. I do not want to see friendly, or enemy, loadouts for free.

[Endrick]

Egomane, on 30 January 2013 - 05:59 AM, said:

I don't really see the need for a complete readout of the other team members paperdoll or weapon loadout.

I know that humans are a very curious species and almost always want to knwo everything. I am no exception there. But wouldn't also take some of the spice out of the game?

I know more about the enemy team than I do my own team.
Also, he who controls the spice controls the universe.

[Sifright]

Endrick, on 01 February 2013 - 05:39 AM, said:

I know more about the enemy team than I do my own team.
Also, he who controls the spice controls the universe.

I dunno, he who controls the spice so far has become blind or turned into a giant worm tyrant.

neither seems particularly palatable.

[Endrick]

Sifright, on 01 February 2013 - 05:41 AM, said:

I dunno, he who controls the spice so far has become blind or turned into a giant worm tyrant.

neither seems particularly palatable.

At least as a giant worm tyrant it's a lot easier to buy your own hot ghola chicks or dead boyhood friends though.

[Der Basilisk]

First let me say that i did not read this whole thread, but i´m definitley for friendly scanning. Where is the logic therein, that i know more about my enemies than about my teammates?

And even in an 8vs8 where all know each other, it is helpful since it wouldn´t only show me my friends loadout, but also their mechs condition and which weapons they might have already lost. Thus i can decide to help someone or just plan accordingly, in case i had something to say about it.

For those, who are against it, i have a rather simple solution. Just don´t use it. I don´t want to offend someone, but if you don´t like, just don´t use ist. But as far as i can tell, most here are for it, so let us have it.

Edited by Der Basilisk, 01 February 2013 - 05:51 AM.

[Sifright]

Endrick, on 01 February 2013 - 05:46 AM, said:

At least as a giant worm tyrant it's a lot easier to buy your own hot ghola chicks or dead boyhood friends though.

I mean sure it has its upsides... but like... dude his penis totally fell off. Hot Ghola chicks aren't very useful in that situation.

plus he had a copy of baron harkonen running around in his mindscape. Shudder.

Even worse he remembers what its like to have sex with his mother... and his father

Edited by Sifright, 01 February 2013 - 05:51 AM.

[AimRobot]

Der Basilisk, on 01 February 2013 - 05:49 AM, said:

First let me say that i did not read this whole thread, but i´m definitley for friendly scanning. Where is the logic therein, that i know more about my enemies than about my teammates?

And even in an 8vs8 where all know each other, it is helpful since it wouldn´t only show me my friends loadout, but also their mechs condition and which weapons they might have already lost. Thus i can decide to help someone or just plan accordingly, in case i had something to say about it.

For those, who are against it, i have a rather simple solution. Just don´t use it. I don´t want to offend someone, but if you don´t like, just don´t use ist. But as far as i can tell, most here are for it, so let us have it.

Its just not always in the games best interest what people want even tho i would like it im still unsure it is a MUST HAVE.
I still think enemy loadout is a much bigger deal and dont understand why its ther or auto enemy target for that matter, ears and eyes should be a part of the game.

[Divine Madcat]

Remarius, on 01 February 2013 - 05:25 AM, said:

I have some severe doubts that anyone who thinks they have time to target and scan 7 other team mates at the start of a game to see their loadout is making effective use of their time... can't imagine the hell of 8 people all waiting to scan each other... did i miss someone ... no idea lets rescan......

Well, for one, you never need to scan everyone. Scouts have very limited loadout.. as long as they are giving targets, they are fine. But its the other mechs who can fill a variety of roles ; we Ned to know if they are brawler, missile boat, or sniper (etc) .

Second, you almost always have two min before you get in a furball... are you telling me you can't take 20 seconds to scan some ambiguous mechs, and devise a plan, before you even reach a first capture point /firefight/ checkpoint? Sure, if you are a scout, it is harder.. but any other mechanical should have plenty of time..

[Remarius]

Divine Madcat, on 01 February 2013 - 09:46 AM, said:

Well, for one, you never need to scan everyone. Scouts have very limited loadout.. as long as they are giving targets, they are fine. But its the other mechs who can fill a variety of roles ; we Ned to know if they are brawler, missile boat, or sniper (etc) .

Second, you almost always have two min before you get in a furball... are you telling me you can't take 20 seconds to scan some ambiguous mechs, and devise a plan, before you even reach a first capture point /firefight/ checkpoint? Sure, if you are a scout, it is harder.. but any other mechanical should have plenty of time..

I look at what mechs I can see visually and then move to a firing point unless theres a ECM I decide to follow, that initial look takes 10 seconds at most. I use long/medium range direct fire sniper weapons primarily so I want to catch someone on the other side moving into position unless theres an overwhelming reason to stick to someone else (*cough* DC *cough*). I'm also going to massively dispute your 20 seconds figure as targeting/R'ing my own team mechs one by one and mentally digesting their loadouts/capabilities is NOT a 20 second job even with the target information gathering module I use. Wish I could digest information that fast of course but I'm not a battle computer.