258 replies to this topic

[Eric darkstar Marr]

Look so lang as it does 2 stars vs 3 lances there should not be any major issue till the min/max players figure it all out. With that said a crappy pilot even with clan tech will still be a crappy pilot.

So if its 10v12 or 5v8 I see no super problem other then clanners QQing about having to drop in 10s.

Clan drops must be separate from IS drops. So no mixing techs even in PuGs. If you have Clan tech party size would be 5 or 10.

[Strig]

They will be awesome as long as they are balanced properly. I would suggest the following (what the Devs have decided to do remains to be seen):

• No cross-pollenation of equipment (i.e., Clan mechs use clan gear, IS mechs use IS gear ... no exceptions)
  
• Clan mechs only on Clan teams, IS on IS (Clan team can fight clan or IS team and vice versa, but no mixed mechs on one team)
  
• Clans drop as Stars (5 mechs), IS drop as lances (4 mechs) therefore in a 12v12 as a base (what the devs claim to be targeting) IS teams get 3 lances (12 mechs) , Clan only get 2 stars (10 mechs)
  
• That's it

[Viper69]

Strig, on 31 January 2013 - 12:02 PM, said:

They will be awesome as long as they are balanced properly. I would suggest the following (what the Devs have decided to do remains to be seen):

• No cross-pollenation of equipment (i.e., Clan mechs use clan gear, IS mechs use IS gear ... no exceptions)
  
• Clan mechs only on Clan teams, IS on IS (Clan team can fight clan or IS team and vice versa, but no mixed mechs on one team)
  
• Clans drop as Stars (5 mechs), IS drop as lances (4 mechs) therefore in a 12v12 as a base (what the devs claim to be targeting) IS teams get 3 lances (12 mechs) , Clan only get 2 stars (10 mechs)
  
• That's it

Two clan stars would whup the holy crap out of 3 lances of IS mechs. You would need 3 lances to deal with one star of mechs. That is just a guess as is yours but it also comes down to weight. If the star is an assault star consisting of 1 dire wolf, 2 timber wolves 1 maddog and a hunchback 2c. Those 5 mechs will destroy 10 IS mechs consisting of 2 assaults 3 heavies 3 mediums and 2 lights. That is a 2:1 ratio. You throw in 2 stars then you would need 20 mechs of IS tech. Not to mention if you get a groups consisting solely of Dire wolves or Timber Wolves. Toss in an extremely powerful medium mech the Shadowcat and god help any IS medium mech found alone against it.

[Eric darkstar Marr]

Strig, on 31 January 2013 - 12:02 PM, said:

They will be awesome as long as they are balanced properly. I would suggest the following (what the Devs have decided to do remains to be seen):

• No cross-pollenation of equipment (i.e., Clan mechs use clan gear, IS mechs use IS gear ... no exceptions)
  
• Clan mechs only on Clan teams, IS on IS (Clan team can fight clan or IS team and vice versa, but no mixed mechs on one team)
  
• Clans drop as Stars (5 mechs), IS drop as lances (4 mechs) therefore in a 12v12 as a base (what the devs claim to be targeting) IS teams get 3 lances (12 mechs) , Clan only get 2 stars (10 mechs)
  
• That's it

What I have been preaching all along

Also I do not think we will see 2nd line clan mechs for a longer time so no Hunchback IIc or the likes. Also and hear me out Clans would not have access to certain modules like airstrikes longtom etc.. when the devs put them in because that would be dishonorable to them.
So if you have airstrikes or longtoms strikes it could pose a nice balance.

So while 10 direwolves could server a huge problem I would think they would have a weighted balance system in place first as it was something they talk about on and off.

[MustrumRidcully]

HiplyRustic, on 31 January 2013 - 11:39 AM, said:

Here we go again with the difference between paid content and P2W. There is one. There is no ship to ship combat in STO, it's a rail-shotter side game, so no ship grants a competitive advantage.

Are you guys talking STO or SWTOR? Because Startrek Online has sure as hell ship-to-ship combat. It's the best part of the whole game, basically! It's also broken as hell, and all the P2W items there don't help.

There is just one caveat - at least in STO, you can earn Dilithium and exchange it for Zen. There is no way to turn C-Bills into MC at all in MW:O. I think that's one of the worst aspects of it. Both for players as well as for PGI, actually. There is no way for a player to earn mech credits, so people that have time instead of money are simply fracked. But also - a way to earn MC can also make it more tempting to buy some MC - just to finally have enough to afford whatever you want to get... There is a lot less barrier to using the cash shop, and thus eventually also much less barrier to use cash. But you also always enable players to acquire items from the cash shop without playing.

The problem with STO's method IMO is that they use the Dilithium to Zen Exchange process. This means someone is always paying for the Zen in the system, and I think that's what is ultimately making all the P2W items still P2W. Someone had to pay.

[Rakashan]

Come on... In this community a Dev sneezing causes massive QQ. Never mind balance or playability...

Yeah, I am interested to see what they do. They can't just release clan tech and make it widely available or nobody will ever run anything else. I can imagine ways to make it available but not prevalent (the best seems to be putting a clear line between IS and Clan mechs and tech and never allowing them to meet and then changing the MM so that clanners drop together and IS drops together with different rules for matching, 8v5 makes the most sense with the maps we have).

Whatever they choose, they've got to do something and what they choose will make some happy and make others unhappy and the QQ shall reign supreme regardless of what they do.

[Sadistic Savior]

Bishop Steiner, on 31 January 2013 - 11:58 AM, said:

not exactly rolling out any "credible evidence to back your argument on that one..... just saying. And 5 million infantry against a hundred bombers dropping MoABs, the "numerical advantage" vanishes... literally.

That analogy obviously fails in MWO...IS mechs most certainly CAN damage and destroy Clan mechs. 1000 Locusts most certainly will kill the best Clan mech.

Numbers do matter in this context. That is why ratios are a valid way to balance tech.

[Wales Grey]

Voted Checkbox.

why do people keep making these threads

[Bishop Steiner]

because when not trolled they actually serve for useful discussion

[Sug]

I really wish the devs would give SOME information on their Clan plans, even if it's pre-pre-Alpha ideas that may or may not be used. Just something.

Why so secretive? We know the Clans are coming...

Devs: SURPRISE!! Clan invasion!!!

Us: Uh..no **** it's 3050.

[Strig]

Viper69, on 31 January 2013 - 12:42 PM, said:

Two clan stars would whup the holy crap out of 3 lances of IS mechs. You would need 3 lances to deal with one star of mechs. That is just a guess as is yours but it also comes down to weight. If the star is an assault star consisting of 1 dire wolf, 2 timber wolves 1 maddog and a hunchback 2c. Those 5 mechs will destroy 10 IS mechs consisting of 2 assaults 3 heavies 3 mediums and 2 lights. That is a 2:1 ratio. You throw in 2 stars then you would need 20 mechs of IS tech. Not to mention if you get a groups consisting solely of Dire wolves or Timber Wolves. Toss in an extremely powerful medium mech the Shadowcat and god help any IS medium mech found alone against it.

Possibly, and one of the things I think we really need to balance against is Battle Value (along with ELO - skill). This means you aren't matching purely on weight but on value of gear as well.

Additionally, as darkstar points out:

Eric darkstar Marr, on 31 January 2013 - 12:52 PM, said:

Clans would not have access to certain modules like airstrikes longtom etc.. when the devs put them in because that would be dishonorable to them.
So if you have airstrikes or longtoms strikes it could pose a nice balance.

So while 10 direwolves could server a huge problem I would think they would have a weighted balance system in place first as it was something they talk about on and off.

This, I think is important: the Clans play by different rules. They are insanely powerful, so there are gonna have to be balancing factors. Things like limiting "dishonorable" tech will help. Ideally, Clan mechs and tech would also be extremely expensive (not that that will balance game-play, but worth noting).

I have faith that there are many ways to balance Clan mechs to make them fair and fun ...

All that said, the QQing will be EPIC!

[Marcuscelkus]

a simple idea. let the clan hardware be available only to players with certain rating. General xp or kill to death ratio and you will have a sieve for all noobs and credit card players. simply one does not buy skills on net.

you wanna best mech tech? so prove to be worthy with your achievments. simple as that

[Marcuscelkus]

p.s you have to play longer and be good to be able to play clanners. other nice thing would be fraction hardware restriction. e.g you can't have clan tech on IS Atlas just on some combine or clanner version. another example have long tom or similar on clanner tech.

[Sug]

Marcuscelkus, on 31 January 2013 - 02:32 PM, said:

p.s you have to play longer and be good to be able to play clanners. other nice thing would be fraction hardware restriction. e.g you can't have clan tech on IS Atlas just on some combine or clanner version. another example have long tom or similar on clanner tech.

Any kind of restriction on who plays Clan will cause an uproar of QQ. Seriously. Imagine all the mouth breathers asking "Wehn is MaDCAT in game?" being told they won't be able to play Clans the second they create an account.

[HiplyRustic]

MustrumRidcully, on 31 January 2013 - 01:01 PM, said:

Are you guys talking STO or SWTOR? Because Startrek Online has sure as hell ship-to-ship combat. It's the best part of the whole game, basically! It's also broken as hell, and all the P2W items there don't help.

There is just one caveat - at least in STO, you can earn Dilithium and exchange it for Zen. There is no way to turn C-Bills into MC at all in MW:O. I think that's one of the worst aspects of it. Both for players as well as for PGI, actually. There is no way for a player to earn mech credits, so people that have time instead of money are simply fracked. But also - a way to earn MC can also make it more tempting to buy some MC - just to finally have enough to afford whatever you want to get... There is a lot less barrier to using the cash shop, and thus eventually also much less barrier to use cash. But you also always enable players to acquire items from the cash shop without playing.

The problem with STO's method IMO is that they use the Dilithium to Zen Exchange process. This means someone is always paying for the Zen in the system, and I think that's what is ultimately making all the P2W items still P2W. Someone had to pay.

Yes, he was talking about STO while I was thinking SWTOR. Having said that, STO ship sales aren't cash-only, so there is no barrier to working your *** off ingame to be able to get the same ships, through Z/D conversions. P2W environments are cash-shop environments where only by paying can you access the "advantage", so the point remains the same. Refine enough dilithium and put it on the market and you have Zen...there is no comparable mechanic here.

Edited by HiplyRustic, 31 January 2013 - 02:59 PM.

[Taemien]

Bishop Steiner, on 31 January 2013 - 08:04 AM, said:

Really.. since you know what those mechs will have, apparently, and how they will operate, you will toast 4? Man I hope I drop with you on the first Clan Invasion drop... and after we have BOTH been smoked by the Same MadCat.. tell me how you are going to smoke 4 of them again.....

4 Large Lasers into that massive nose of a Center Torso:



Seriously, how could anyone miss that thing? Oh wait.. you can't as evidenced in MW4 and MWLL. I've been playing against Madcats for the last 15 years and have normally come out on top. MWO will be no different. 6 ERLL Madcats in MW4 weren't any trouble then, they won't be trouble now.

You must be a TS hating PUGer to be afraid of that thing.

[Bishop Steiner]

Taemien, on 31 January 2013 - 04:10 PM, said:

4 Large Lasers into that massive nose of a Center Torso:



Seriously, how could anyone miss that thing? Oh wait.. you can't as evidenced in MW4 and MWLL. I've been playing against Madcats for the last 15 years and have normally come out on top. MWO will be no different. 6 ERLL Madcats in MW4 weren't any trouble then, they won't be trouble now.

You must be a TS hating PUGer to be afraid of that thing.

I'll anxiously await your youtube footage of you decimating whole stars all by yourself. And basing ANYTHING of MW4 already tells me how pointless your argument is.

[Natasha Kerensky]

3 Lances vs 2 Stars. Balance complete.

[CoffiNail]

Natasha Kerensky, on 04 February 2013 - 01:05 PM, said:

3 Lances vs 2 Stars. Balance complete.

The balance we have been should since the Game started development in Nov 2011

Edited by CoffiNail, 04 February 2013 - 01:06 PM.