158 replies to this topic

[TexAce]

Bryan Ekman, on 31 January 2013 - 09:51 AM, said:

It takes

2 Modellers
2 Animators
1 Concept Artist
1 Texture Artist

6 people x 1 Month to make each BattleMech.

how many revisions?
I have quite some experience in this stuff. if you say it takes one month it doesn't mean that the concept artist is working 30 days, he is working only the first week, right? Then the modellers work, then the texture artists and the animators at the same time. So none of them are working 30 days on a single mech.

At least I HOPE that's what you mean. Otherwise your workflow/pipe is not very efficient or you have a very picky art director doing hell a lot of revisions.

This is not a rant, I would gladly know more.

[Bryan Ekman]

TexAss, on 31 January 2013 - 10:15 AM, said:

how many revisions? I have quite some experience in this stuff. if you say it takes one month it doesn't mean that the concept artist is working 30 days, he is working only the first week, right? Then the modellers work, then the texture artists and the animators at the same time. So none of them are working 30 days on a single mech. At least I HOPE that's what you mean. Otherwise your workflow/pipe is not very efficient or you have a very picky art director doing hell a lot of revisions. This is not a rant, I would gladly know more.

1-2 weeks for the concept and 1~ week for the orthos. I rounded up for sake of simplicity, as there are many other smaller projects Alex works on each month as well, including patterns.

[DEN_Ninja]

Iwaslost, on 31 January 2013 - 10:13 AM, said:

Some one take those things away before they hurt themselves.

Also could you explain the whole Katrina Steiner thing to me? I'm fairly new to this.

See the crazy witch that is Katrina, formerly Katherine, Steiner assassinated her Mother, some cousins, Omiko Kurita, and attempted to have Victor along with many other people assassinated. This was all a vie for power because she is crazy like a Liao. She also ripped the Federated Commonwealth in half and at many times could of caused a huge collapse in the Inner Sphere.

Edited by Tichorius Davion, 31 January 2013 - 10:19 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Critical Fumble, on 31 January 2013 - 10:11 AM, said:

Hey, don't ruin the moment.

Its not often the devs walk and talk with mere mortals.

Its like Zeus came down and said, "Yo, this is how electricity works!" And all you have to say is, "Dude, you just stepped in a dog ****."

Actually, if you are on the T3 servers, it ain't all that uncommon. I have seen Paul and Garth and several others on quite a bit, and they are pretty open, either in drop, or just "holding court" in the Entry Zones. (Comstar NA and NGNG both)

[CDLord HHGD]

Iwaslost, on 31 January 2013 - 10:13 AM, said:

Also could you explain the whole Katrina Steiner thing to me? I'm fairly new to this.

http://www.sarna.net..._Steiner-Davion

[Bishop Steiner]

Iwaslost, on 31 January 2013 - 10:13 AM, said:

Some one take those things away before they hurt themselves.

Also could you explain the whole Katrina Steiner thing to me? I'm fairly new to this.

Don't worry, you have 6 years to catch up before the Witch starts her power bid, and 17 to be up to speed before we depose her skinny casper azz.

[Grraarrgghh]

Vernius Ix, on 31 January 2013 - 10:10 AM, said:

You sound like a man who would like to engage in and cover up pederasty.

This post is hilarious.

But for all the wrong reasons.

[DEN_Ninja]

Bishop Steiner, on 31 January 2013 - 10:19 AM, said:

Don't worry, you have 6 years to catch up before the Witch starts her power bid, and 17 to be up to speed before we depose her skinny casper azz.

If Khan Vlad wasn't such a weak little brat Hurricane Katrina would have been less of a problem.

Edited by Tichorius Davion, 31 January 2013 - 10:21 AM.

[o Riva o]

cdlord, on 31 January 2013 - 09:36 AM, said:

I'd say apply for the jobs they are offering and get some first hand knowledge.

I suspect they would want me to relocate to theyr frozen end of the world. I did refuse that for 2 compaies already. Not ready to change my mind (I hate cold )

Quote

I'm sure there are lots of corporate snags along the way and for any corporate decision takes weeks potentially. I'm sure if all it was was a dozen or so people, they'd be cranking this out, but they got more people pulling their strings including a caveat that any art and model may need to be approved not by PGI and IGP, but FASA as well. That alone could take months....

I agree. Still it would have to be several months of "corporate snags" for every major asset to fit the development time
The fact that they have to have everything approved by 'FASA' is a speculation though, right ?

Joseph Mallan, on 31 January 2013 - 09:38 AM, said:

No really They have said they are hiring. if you are as good as you say you are, then man, you are everything the DEVs are looking for!

What makes you (all) think any of us want to work at Piranha ?
Besides you dont really have to be super "good" to be able to create something like MWO in the time given above. Thats considered "normal" in most game companies I know.

Heeden, on 31 January 2013 - 09:42 AM, said:

Also with the modelling, are you including the time for concept sketches, consultations, redesigns etc. because personally I think the art-style in MW:O is utterly fantastic and I don't think the time-scale you're allowing would lead to such a brilliant aesthetic that manages to keep the resemblance to classic battle-tech but with a modern feel, let alone the animation which is pretty top-notch.

1. I dont think the MWO art is "fantastic". Imo it all looks pretty blank and uninteresting. definetly compared to curent topselling games.
2. the concept sketches dont take as much time as you imagine. Also I think all the designs in MWO are based on tons of ilustrations that already exist in Battletech franchise for years. Not even counting the notion that they (quite surely imo) used all the assets and artworks they had done for MW5. And not even counting that they arelady had very good base for designs in previous MW games They didnt really need to pre-viz anything. (Im writing this just to inform how things usually work. And not.)

Thontor, on 31 January 2013 - 09:43 AM, said:

And clearly you and your friends are wrong and missed something in your "estimation"

Its maybe clear to you, but can you clarify for me where did we go wrong ?

Vechs, on 31 January 2013 - 09:49 AM, said:

Well I'm a level designer so I'll toss in my two cents.

If I know EXACTLY what to make, I can get the work done pretty fast.

You seem to be doing a time budget for just recreating what they've already made.

If I had a hard drive failure and had to recreate and area, that's one thing.

But being assigned to create an area from scratch involves planning, testing, and just... time.

Hi to fellow level designer!
I agree that if you are making a big, intricate level for a real FPS, with tons of checkpoints, areas, scripted and unscripted AI enemies, maybe several interchanging environments and hihg level of detail, then it takes a lot of planning, pre-viz-ing and maybe even whiteboxing 1st.
The levels for MWO are basic, small, empty, non-interactive, low-detail, have one simple environment ... dont need to continue
I just cant imagine making a dozen of artworks just to make the blant 'Frozen city' map.

Bryan Ekman, on 31 January 2013 - 09:51 AM, said:

It takes

2 Modellers
2 Animators
1 Concept Artist
1 Texture Artist

6 people x 1 Month to make each BattleMech.

Who the .. did you hire ?
Especialy: "2 Animators" ? What did they animate ? The only things that move in the game are the player-driven robots and Im guesssing that most of the robots animations are either code-created (legs, torso twist) or physics simluation (death).

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Vernius Ix, on 31 January 2013 - 10:10 AM, said:

You sound like a man who would like to engage in and cover up pederasty.

Pic Related.



Also I'm not here to argue with you bro, just felt you were being a jerk and called you on it. Seriously man, chill on the devs, they know we have issues with some of the things they bring to the table... and they're taking steps, it just takes them 6 months to roll out said steps.

[Grraarrgghh]

o Riva o, on 31 January 2013 - 10:20 AM, said:

I suspect they would want me to relocate to theyr frozen end of the world. I did refuse that for 2 compaies already. Not ready to change my mind (I hate cold ).

You're bad with geography. It barely ******* snows in Vancouver and -3c is cold to them.

You're also generally full of ****, but that much is obvious.

[TexAce]

Bryan Ekman, on 31 January 2013 - 10:17 AM, said:

1-2 weeks for the concept and 1~ week for the orthos. I rounded up for sake of simplicity, as there are many other smaller projects Alex works on each month as well, including patterns.

Thanks. That's sound ok. Only thing I'm amazing by is this:

Bryan Ekman, on 31 January 2013 - 09:58 AM, said:

• Levels take a 7 person team 3-4 months to make before test.

Drill your level designers! That's really a bit slow compared to what the Cry3 engine gives you and compared to what ends up in the level. Most 3D modellers I worked with (also on Maps) were much much faster.

Ever worked in Cinebox? You should have access to that. Could help you improve your level design speed with fast layouts.

Edit: Using 22 mandays for a month thats roughly 450-600 mandays for one map. Thanks but no thanks. That's a crazy calculation. 450 mandays to create frozen city? Jeez....I would have guessed 3 artists for 2 months (~120 mandays) + texturing time.

Edited by TexAss, 31 January 2013 - 10:52 AM.

[Steven Dixon]

Iwaslost, on 31 January 2013 - 10:13 AM, said:

Some one take those things away before they hurt themselves.

Also could you explain the whole Katrina Steiner thing to me? I'm fairly new to this.

The original Katrina Steiner was an evil tyrant that sold her daughter to a cruel despot, but fortuitously this resulted in the birth of her daughter the magnificent Katherine Stiener-Davion (who later took the name Katrina), who courageously worked to save the IS from her twisted napoleonic brother. Eventually she had to flee to the protection of the true and noble wolf clan. Oh wait I'm Davion, just reverse what I just said, Katrina=Disney Godmother, Katherine=Disney Stepmother.

[DEN_Ninja]

Grraarrgghh, on 31 January 2013 - 10:24 AM, said:

You're bad with geography. It barely ******* snows in Vancouver and -3c is cold to them.

You're also generally full of ****, but that much is obvious.

Bah no use, those southerners don't know winter like us northerners. They were born during summer and have only known summer. Winter is coming.

xD

[Mister Blastman]

o Riva o, on 31 January 2013 - 10:20 AM, said:

I agree that if you are making a big, intricate level for a real FPS, with tons of checkpoints, areas, scripted and unscripted AI enemies, maybe several interchanging environments and hihg level of detail, then it takes a lot of planning, pre-viz-ing and maybe even whiteboxing 1st.

Checkpoint areas.

Checkpoint areas?

Please. Leave.

Checkpoints and corridor shooters are the bane of FPS games and honestly, a cop out. A cop out for lack of vision, design ability and most importantly, shoddy half-thought out gameplay.

Go make a classic like Doom or Duke 3d--something that has complex, intricate levels. Ugh.

Seriously. If you know it all like you say you do--go make us a game! Tell us when you're done.

You can obviously do better than the developers here for no money at all.

[Robottiimu2000]

Tichorius Davion, on 31 January 2013 - 09:42 AM, said:

So a Steiner Scout Lance walks into a Caldera.









They all overheat.

lolled

[Grimlox]

Bryan Ekman, on 31 January 2013 - 09:58 AM, said:

• We started developing MWO in the summer of 2011, with full production beginning in October 2011.
  
• We went Open Beta 1 year after full production started.
  
• We have a team of 43 people working on it daily, not including IGP staff.
  
• CryEngine is a renderer and a level editor, we had to write all of the backend architecture, customer support tools, website, money management, analytics, etc. etc.
  
• The average feature takes betwen 1-4 months to complete before test.
  
• Levels take a 7 person team 3-4 months to make before test.

Hey Bryan,

Have you noticed that the time taken to create a mech has become more streamlined recently or do you feel 1 month is as fast as it will get?

[CDLord HHGD]

Steven Dixon, on 31 January 2013 - 10:26 AM, said:

The original Katrina Steiner was an evil tyrant that sold her daughter to a cruel despot, but fortuitously this resulted in the birth of her daughter the magnificent Katherine Stiener-Davion (who later took the name Katrina), who courageously worked to save the IS from her twisted napoleonic brother. Eventually she had to flee to the protection of the true and noble wolf clan. Oh wait I'm Davion, just reverse what I just said, Katrina=Disney Godmother, Katherine=Disney Stepmother.

You had me going there for a second. Was gonna have to smack you around a bit

[Volthorne]

Grraarrgghh, on 31 January 2013 - 10:24 AM, said:

You're bad with geography. It barely ******* snows in Vancouver and -3c is cold to them.

Shhhh! That's just the lure we use in Canada to get people to move up here to work. Then they get all surprised when we show up at the "airport" (read: strip of hard-packed snow) with "cars" (read: dogsleds) and drive them to their "apartment" (read: igloo). The stupid Americans will never catch on!

...

Did I just say all of that out loud?

[o Riva o]

Grraarrgghh, on 31 January 2013 - 10:24 AM, said:

You're bad with geography. It barely ******* snows in Vancouver and -3c is cold to them.

You're also generally full of ****, but that much is obvious.

Im affraid you are just full of .. hate.
And that was a joke of course. Its true I dont have detailed knowledge about Vancouver whereabouts or its weather. I do have a colleague in Canada and the photos he sends (of streets covered in 2 feet of ice) were not very .. welcoming
Im european .. mostly. Btw.

Mister Blastman, on 31 January 2013 - 10:30 AM, said:

Checkpoint areas.

Checkpoint areas?

Please. Leave.

..

I understand you dont really know what 'checkpoints' and 'areas' are in a (modern) game. I sugest you google about technical side of level design and you will find out you have little to rant about in this sense.
Eg. mostly any game cant work without areas, which are virtual (invisible) definitions of map parts for 3d engine, AI etc.
And when you "cap" an enemy base, well, thats an (area) trigger

Quote

You can obviously do better than the developers here for no money at all.

Game dev is my job, so I actually get money for that Not as much as the MWO devs get I guess, since different contry and all :-\ Still.

And if what Bryan Ekman wrote is true, then believe that yes, I actually can do better than that. And that even with a fact that Im not 3d specialist (as I wrote). I honestly cant imagine creating one simple, uninteresting looking mech with little to no aminations for weeks. I'd get fired from any company.

Edited by o Riva o, 31 January 2013 - 10:48 AM.