379 replies to this topic

[Zylo]

Mycrus, on 01 February 2013 - 03:32 AM, said:

exactly what i have been saying all along...

4-man vs PUGs is OP
4-man + ECM vs PUGs is godmode
4+4man vs PUGs is cowardice

unfortunately, so called 'teams' that like 'teamwork' hide in the 4-man queue while the 8-man is a ghost town...

why? because 4-man premades have 101 reasons (yes as many as dalmatians) why they won't play 8-mans...

but the only true reason is that 4-man premades love to PUGstomp and are scare of the 8-man queue.

With 4 new recruits applying we happened to have 8 ready to drop so we formed up a group of 8 to give the new recruits a real test. There didn't seem to be many issues finding matches in 8-man drops last night (around 8 hours ago from the time of this post) although we did get a few failed to find match attempts but were never waiting more than the time needed for a group member to restart after getting bugged and unable to click ready. Most attempts were similar to the wait time needed for 4-man drops.

Some of the larger merc corps should have no trouble running groups of 8, I mean Hell's Ponies has 20 full members + 7 recruits total yet we can pull together enough to run an 8-man team. How many merc corps with 100+ complain they can't get 8 online at the same time? I'm sure some are afraid of the competition but I think most just dislike the lack of weight matching. I don't mind the lack of weight matching too much.


If the solo/4-man matchmaker would work properly the 4-man groups wouldn't be causing so many issues. It seems like a really simple fix to limit each team to a single 4-man group and only place a group on 1 team when another is available for the other team. 4-man groups are needed to allow group play for smaller merc groups during off-peak hours. Even though we can and do run 8-man groups, we do have off-peak times and run groups of 2, 3 or 4 at these times.

[Name115734]

I play 4 mans mostly and I couldn't agree more, get rid of 4's.

8's are the place for coordinated play, but with 4 mans it is very difficult to get a coordinated 8 man together.

Sadly with the situation as it is, including UI bugs, wait times, failed to find matches, etc., it is easier logistically to sync two 4's than to go through the effort of dropping as an 8 though.

[Tetatae Squawkins]

Call the police on anyone who uses teamwork.

[codynyc]

LOL why wasent this ever a issue in older mw games? Same mechanics ... same mechs... The only new factor is the players... Maybe people should stop QQing

with that said a trial que would be nice to see although i doubt that will ever happen

[SouthernRex]

No, you sissy.

[Mycrus]

AltAzantia, on 31 January 2013 - 10:10 PM, said:

To bad, you're a pug. By definition, you are someone who refuses to take a necessary step towards improving your gameplay.

Go drown in pubbie lake.

by definition you are a troll and a poor one at that.

[Shismar]

Removing 4-man groups would do exactly nothing. If you and your team sucks, you will still get rolled. Not to mention that even without formal groups, nothing can prevent players from meeting on TS and sync drop.

We will see how the ELO implementation goes. Also matching groups with another group on the opposing team would be great. That one is difficult though in a weight matching environment.

Until then, if you want to win more matches, hop on TS and find a group.

[Mycrus]

I GOT an IDEA!

MM should group 4+4-man vs 8-man

because in 8-man, you da PUG!

[Ghogiel]

Mycrus, on 01 February 2013 - 04:18 AM, said:

I GOT an IDEA!

MM should group 4+4-man vs 8-man

because in 8-man, you da PUG!

In soviet matchmaking, PUG groups you.

Love it. Just for the amount of potential QQ.

[Zylo]

Shismar, on 01 February 2013 - 04:14 AM, said:

Removing 4-man groups would do exactly nothing. If you and your team sucks, you will still get rolled. Not to mention that even without formal groups, nothing can prevent players from meeting on TS and sync drop.

We will see how the ELO implementation goes. Also matching groups with another group on the opposing team would be great. That one is difficult though in a weight matching environment.

Until then, if you want to win more matches, hop on TS and find a group.

Removing the 4-man drop options would get some players testing out the most effective ways to solo-sync-drop the largest number of players possible into a match without being grouped in game while being grouped together in TS or another voice program.

Those who figured out how to do this would have a far greater advantage than a 4-man group does today because the average pug player would think it was impossible for any groups to exist in a solo only match.

[Joseph Mallan]

Sam Slade, on 31 January 2013 - 09:10 PM, said:

Right now the new player experience in MWO is bad. It's not Trial Mechs or grind or anything like that; simply put we have to do away with four man groups. I've been playing PUGs exclusivly for almost a month now just to see what all the fuss was about... I'm actually starting to dislike the game and play Hawken or something instead.

Generally a four man premade group will contain at least one ECM mech(usually two), they will contain highly speced mechs(all the upgrades, etc...) and they will communicate easily(duh). Combine this with the synch drops(don't care if you're wanting to play against your clanmates... harden up and form an 8 man team), the high chance that at least one PUGer will dc/afk/suicide rush, the fact that ALL ECM counters require teamwork and you have a high chance of ending up on the wrong end of a backside kicking.

All in all this makes for a terrible, terrible new player experience... having played PUGs constantly I can say without a doubt the four man groups are the most negative element in the game. I LOVE mechwarrior but playing as a PUG just sucks.

I'm sorry? Sure I played many of the MechWarrior titles prior to MWO. However I am a virgin MMO player. So tell me how PreMades was supposed to have ruined My experience. I did my first month in Closed Beta. I did my first Month with 8 man teams being unrestricted. I learned the mechanics of the game under that unrestricted PUGstomping, knowing two things:
1) I was going to get my Butt handed to me.
a) I was new
My opponents probably were not
c) groups were going to have a easy time kicking my butt.
2) I would eventually need to join a group if I wanted to increase my chances of winning.

So my initial experience was the same as yours. I got handed to on a regular basis, and I was fresh meat for the veteran players.

The game can prosper from a training ground to help new players learn the basics, establish their ELO ranking and just generally get their feet wet. However there is no better way to get you bearings than to just wade in, expect to die till you get your bearings.

[Ilwrath]

Novawrecker, on 01 February 2013 - 03:35 AM, said:

Karl,

I can completely understand the perspective of a freshly new player learning the ropes of the game. But every player, in ANY game they are just learning will get splated due to lack of knowledge.

He can go play Tribes Ascend or World of Tanks. Both of those games has an initial playground where new players is meeting their own kind. So ******** easy yet so ******** hard it seems.

Edit; You will meet smurfs in those games but that can never be avoided.

Edited by Ilwrath, 01 February 2013 - 04:38 AM.

[Mycrus]

Zylo, on 01 February 2013 - 04:20 AM, said:

Removing the 4-man drop options would get some players testing out the most effective ways to solo-sync-drop the largest number of players possible into a match without being grouped in game while being grouped together in TS or another voice program.

Those who figured out how to do this would have a far greater advantage than a 4-man group does today because the average pug player would think it was impossible for any groups to exist in a solo only match.

been there done that... during the 4-man limit patch we solo synch drop as much 32 players at a time in single TS3 channel for giggles...

you will end up at the very most 2-3 per side across multiple maps

[Zylo]

Mycrus, on 01 February 2013 - 04:18 AM, said:

I GOT an IDEA!

MM should group 4+4-man vs 8-man

because in 8-man, you da PUG!

It sounds good in theory but that would pretty much require not using any sort of weight matching which seemed to be a common reason some groups avoided the 8-man drops. That would probably cause many players to attempt solo-sync-drops to be able to "group" in a weight matched drop.

2 and 3 player groups could also complicate matchmaking a bit if the matchmaker had to find 2x 3-man groups + 1x 2-man group to launch against a team of 8.

[Novawrecker]

crabcakes66, on 01 February 2013 - 04:03 AM, said:

Call the police on anyone who uses teamwork.

"You are currently in violation of the Non-organized Team play pact. Move along, Citizens. Move along ....."

Edited by Novawrecker, 01 February 2013 - 04:27 AM.

[Mycrus]

Zylo, on 01 February 2013 - 04:25 AM, said:

It sounds good in theory but that would pretty much require not using any sort of weight matching which seemed to be a common...

meant nothing by it, just trolling sir

o7

[Sam Slade]

Joseph Mallan, on 01 February 2013 - 04:22 AM, said:

said a whole bunch of stuff applicaple to a reasonable and mature fan of MWO

When I say 'new player experience' I mean the kinds of new players needed to keep the cash rolling in, not fans who have already been factored into profit projections.

Most of the "bah! play premade or you're scum" hubris is coming from strange and jaded vets of games like EVE(where you're life IS THE GAME... the kind of folks that dress as Tron because we must venerate the program!).

That is not the debate I care to weight in to.

[Zylo]

Mycrus, on 01 February 2013 - 04:31 AM, said:

meant nothing by it, just trolling sir

o7

I'm guessing you're a bit bored and the 8-man queue is dead right now...

[PANZERBUNNY]

Mycrus, on 01 February 2013 - 04:13 AM, said:

by definition you are a troll and a poor one at that.

This entire thread is a troll against sanity and responsible gaming, perpetuated by people who have very little understanding of what makes a long lasting game.

Here's a hint: Pandering to scrub whining about people dropping with their friends, having a good time and wanting to take that away isn't the best place to start.

Before we could drop with formed groups there was a time when people were sick of not having that ability and Closed Beta population was lucky to have 50-60 people on at high times. (For a while there.)

It would be a gigantic step back.

They'll sort it out in the near future. Stop worrying about your lame stats and you'll be fine.

[Chavette]

I GOT DA FIX MAYNE I GOT DA ANTIDOTE RIGHT HURR!

http://mwomercs.com/...-party-problem/

Seriously, check it, you'll like it!