452 replies to this topic

[DocBach]

There are more people who feel ECM made the game slightly worse than people who think it made the game slightly better or a lot better combined.

[Dreepa]

Even if the poll went 50:50.... from the perspective of making a good game, is it really an accomplishment that an added feature is only appreciated by 50% of the most loyal fanbase? (loyal fanbase=the community that sits in the forums).

I wouldnt want a feature in my game that is not liked by the absolute majority of players, because it would mean, that I as a dev dont make a game for my customer, but a game that I want for myself.

Edited by Dreepa, 03 February 2013 - 03:42 AM.

[armyof1]

I haven't played long enough to know how it was before there was ECM, but what I do know is that it's very often the games where both sides don't have an ECM that turns it into a prolonged and even battle that I'm happy to be part of whether I win or lose. When one team has 2-3 ECMS and the other don't have a single one it's almost certain the team without ECM will lose and very badly. I'm sure if we look at stats over all these kind of matches we'd get an overwhelming win ratio for the ECM team.

Even when I am in the winning team it just isn't very fun since I know I won more or less because of my teammates had one single equipment, not because my aim was better or I outthought my opponent by anticipating his moves etc. Those are the kind of fights that are the most enjoyable that happen all too seldom. More often you get two lights with ECM alpha you in the back and it's pretty much over. Or even worse, a couple of big mechs outflanking you while cloaked in ECM just over the ridge while you're stuck dodging a hailstorm of LRM from two missleboats, both OP things at once. And it's not like this happens sometimes, really uneven games are far more frequent than even ones. And I'm not so sure the coming ranking system can do so much about that since it has more to do with equipment than purely skill level.

Edited by armyof1, 03 February 2013 - 04:59 AM.

[Hekalite]

Dreepa, on 03 February 2013 - 03:41 AM, said:

Even if the poll went 50:50.... from the perspective of making a good game, is it really an accomplishment that an added feature is only appreciated by 50% of the most loyal fanbase? (loyal fanbase=the community that sits in the forums).

I wouldnt want a feature in my game that is not liked by the absolute majority of players, because it would mean, that I as a dev dont make a game for my customer, but a game that I want for myself.

Correction, the remaining portion of your loyal fanbase. This feature already converted loyal fans to non-players.

[nksharp]

Hekalite, on 03 February 2013 - 05:02 AM, said:

Correction, the remaining portion of your loyal fanbase. This feature already converted loyal fans to non-players.

I use to play probably 3 hours a day or so, now I rarely play at all (mostly just RHOD matches now). Probably half my clan has stopped playing consistently since most are bored from the lack of new content and others are just annoyed at bugs or cannot even play at all.

[WolvesX]

ECM -> Should be better balanced.

[CDLord HHGD]

Zeh, on 01 February 2013 - 09:21 AM, said:

This. This several times. Just give it less functionality. I voted neutral, but only because it's a good idea.. just too powerful.

Make it effect the individual mech and enemies only, and I'd be OK with it. The Angel-ECM like effect is my biggest gripe.

Currently ECM takes two slots and weights 1.5 tons. Either split it into three pieces of equipment (Guardian/Angel/Null) or make it equivalent to the three (6 slots and 4.5 tons). That's some real sacrifice in slots and weight, especially for the lights/Cicada......

[Dreepa]

Hekalite, on 03 February 2013 - 05:02 AM, said:

Correction, the remaining portion of your loyal fanbase. This feature already converted loyal fans to non-players.

I dont have any numbers, and its usually just unjustified claims when someone makes such statements without backing it up.

If one wants to be taken seriously, "gut feelings" never help. Its the same with all those biased polls out there. Sticking to the facts is key in a productive discussion.

[DocBach]

Dreepa, on 03 February 2013 - 03:16 PM, said:

I dont have any numbers, and its usually just unjustified claims when someone makes such statements without backing it up.

If one wants to be taken seriously, "gut feelings" never help. Its the same with all those biased polls out there. Sticking to the facts is key in a productive discussion.

My group that played MechWarrior exclusively use to have on average 40 players nightly. Now we have on average 4-8 players nightly. We actually changed the URL of our website to take MWO out of the address, because most players refuse to be associated with MWO anymore.

[Mancu]

DocBach, on 03 February 2013 - 03:19 PM, said:

My group that played MechWarrior exclusively use to have on average 40 players nightly. Now we have on average 4-8 players nightly. We actually changed the URL of our website to take MWO out of the address, because most players refuse to be associated with MWO anymore.

Yeah, I and quite a few people I know have cut down on play time significantly. A few directly attribute it to ECM, others (like me) attribute it to a mix of lack of content and ECM's lack of balance.

[Lootee]

Dreepa, on 03 February 2013 - 03:16 PM, said:

I dont have any numbers, and its usually just unjustified claims when someone makes such statements without backing it up.

If one wants to be taken seriously, "gut feelings" never help. Its the same with all those biased polls out there. Sticking to the facts is key in a productive discussion.

But so far MWO beta tester gut feelings have been uncanny spot on. We all knew there was something wrong with gauss rifles. Turns out they had 0 drawbacks. Due to a 'bug' they never exploded. So you had a weapon that does extreme damage, makes no heat, hits at extreme range and neither weapon nor ammunition could explode. Obviously it was the best weapon in the game by far in that state. Everyone knew something was off, just not what exactly.

It was gut feeling that heatsinks were messed up that got people to test DHS and discover the borked dissipation rates. Now gut feeling is telling us this 1.5 ton, 2 crit piece of wonder tech is horribly imbalanced compared to anything else you can mount for 1.5 tons. That's enough for 48 pts of armor, 1 heatsink and CASE, AMS and ammo, or 1 medium laser and 1 small laser. Do any of those things warp the game in the same manner as ECM ?

[Volume]

Something needed to be done about LRMs and Streaks being the pinnacle of damage/ton and being the easiest weapons to use (aiming and hitting consistently).

ECM was not the solution.

[Asha Catari]

PanchoTortilla, on 02 February 2013 - 11:41 AM, said:

Does too much and costs too little.

Where's my Ultra-Streak-ER-Pulse-PPC that weighs 2 tons and takes 1 crit slot?

And where is my HCM (Heat Countermeasure): weighs 2 tons, takes up 1 crtitical slot and lets any friendly mech within 150 m radius dissipate heat as though it had 4 additional heat sinks? It may be switched to counter mode making any hostile mech within 150 m radius dissipate heat as though it had 4 heat sinks less.

[Ngamok]

To me they die either way.

BUT, to have mechs with lots of Missle hard points and ECM is ridiculous for lights.

[DocBach]

Ngamok, on 06 February 2013 - 07:43 AM, said:

To me they die either way.

BUT, to have mechs with lots of Missle hard points and ECM is ridiculous for lights.

I've got no problem killing ECM, either. But I'm not the only player who plays this game.

What if you were a new player and the Trial week of the 'Mech was something like a stock A1 Catapult? How would you feel about a system that made all your weapon systems ineffective?

[BirdToes]

Apoc1138, on 01 February 2013 - 06:05 AM, said:

this poll will end up the same as all the other ECM threads, pretty much 40/40 pro/anti with about 20% who don't really care

Nope. As of now: 97 pro-ecm, 234 anti-ecm, 63 indifferent.

Pro-Ecm: 24.6%
Anti-Ecm: 59.4%
Indifferent: 16%

[Ngamok]

Volume, on 04 February 2013 - 05:22 PM, said:

Something needed to be done about LRMs and Streaks being the pinnacle of damage/ton and being the easiest weapons to use (aiming and hitting consistently).

ECM was not the solution.

It wasn't because now the ones that have the ECM also have multiple Streaks (Cicada-3M and Spider aside). But, if there was no ECM you would see LRM80 / LRM60 boats all over the place and that would be no fun either.

[Ngamok]

DocBach, on 06 February 2013 - 07:45 AM, said:

I've got no problem killing ECM, either. But I'm not the only player who plays this game.

What if you were a new player and the Trial week of the 'Mech was something like a stock A1 Catapult? How would you feel about a system that made all your weapon systems ineffective?

I agree but as I said, something is needed because Awesomes, Catapults, and Stalkers would just rain 60 to 80 LRMs constantly all over the place. The only problem I have is the 2 lights that have can pack the multiple streaks. That needs to be reduced. I don't have a problem with the spider nor the medium cicada (I masted that one and I know it's harder to use effectivley over the easy shooting streak raven).

[Sedant]

ECM is here, its staying. If you don't like it that's rough, maybe you should consider a different giant robot game (not to dissuade anyone from playing this game, because it is great). Adapt or die!

[Asmudius Heng]

Ngamok, on 06 February 2013 - 07:49 AM, said:

I agree but as I said, something is needed because Awesomes, Catapults, and Stalkers would just rain 60 to 80 LRMs constantly all over the place. The only problem I have is the 2 lights that have can pack the multiple streaks. That needs to be reduced. I don't have a problem with the spider nor the medium cicada (I masted that one and I know it's harder to use effectivley over the easy shooting streak raven).

That is an issue with how LRMs and SSRMs were implemented which is the root cause of all this ECM madness.