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A-1 Catapult Broken?


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Poll: A-1 Catapult broken? (826 member(s) have cast votes)

How do you feel about the 6xSRM6 A-1 Catapult?

  1. They are broken, please do something (79 votes [9.56%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 9.56%

  2. I can deal with them only because I'm an awesome pilot (67 votes [8.11%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 8.11%

  3. They are harder than the average opponent (198 votes [23.97%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 23.97%

  4. Voted Just like any other mech (385 votes [46.61%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 46.61%

  5. I pilot an A-1 and yeah... its superior (44 votes [5.33%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 5.33%

  6. Voted I pilot an A-1 and its easy to counter them (explanation at post) (53 votes [6.42%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 6.42%

What is what makes it superior?

  1. The 90 damage alpha (336 votes [27.10%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 27.10%

  2. Jump Jets (63 votes [5.08%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 5.08%

  3. Torso Twist Angle (280°) (206 votes [16.61%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 16.61%

  4. Speed (86 km/h) (140 votes [11.29%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 11.29%

  5. Durability (422 max armor) (77 votes [6.21%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 6.21%

  6. Voted Nothing,they are just in line with the other mechs (418 votes [33.71%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 33.71%

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#541 Sifright

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 07:04 AM

View PostRacerX, on 11 February 2013 - 07:02 AM, said:

Agreed. I'm sick of these "Let's nurf the Cat" polls. What will stop the 6 SRM Cat or any other SRM heavy, in your face, build is splash damage. If a mech is in your face and launchs all of it's SRMs point blank then there should splash damage back to the attacker. It's stupid there isn't. Where is all that concusive energy and shrapnel going? If it doesn't tear a hole through the target then some of that is coming back towards the atacker.

I think splash damage will do wonders to force the SRM boat, whatever mech that may be, to keep its distance and end the one shot insta-kill scenario.


Please do add this.

I look forward to being able to shoot an enemy mech and have the light mech on his team that buzzs past getting smashed by the splash.

: )

#542 Karl Streiger

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 07:04 AM

The intention splah damage remind me at another thing...wouldn't charge damage and falling hit the Splashpult as well as scout mechs too?
I mean when they charge head on into a Atlas - the Catapult will fall - right?

#543 Leimrey

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 07:55 AM

OP, you forgot to include THE most important imbalancing A1 feature on your poll: the small side torsos. You see, what makes the splatterpult so deadly is not just its srm alpha, but the combination of speed, mobility granted by jump jets and extremely high burst damage. The catapult has the ability to close in on pretty much any medium or heavy at will in a very short amount of time, not to mention the lumbering assaults (not even the xl370+ rocking 9M Awesomes or Pretty Babies can outrun them fast enough to save their hides), which makes your range advantage much less important, UNLESS you have a very competent team with an overabundance of long range weapons that can stop a massed brawler assault (only bad cat players go into the fray alone, since everyone and their dog knows to focus it first) dead in their tracks. The high speed is achieved due to the cat's ability to mount an XL engine with little to no negative consequences, since their side torsos are so small and extremely difficult to hit from the front (yes, it's possible, but more often than not it is a matter of luck, since even the best shot will have a very hard time hitting the side torso of a circle strafing splatterpult which is looking directly at him).

If you make the side torsos bigger, then catapults will suddenly become MUCH less durable, because smart people will always go for those relatively poorly armored STs to destroy the engine. This way, a part of the catapult piloting playerbase will switch to STDs for extra survivability in an all out brawl, making them less maneuverable and allowing most of the medium mechs and some heavies (like the babby Atlas Cataphract 2X) to disengage at will, since their speed will not go over 70kph with speed tweak most of the time.

This is the best I can come up with when it comes to a STD A1 splatterpult build:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...c7b617122cf7434

Notice how it has to sacrifice speed (the standard 300XL build goes 82kph with speed tweak), mobility (due to lack of JJs) and heatsinks (the standard build usually has 15-16 dubs). This would allow the players to avoid the cat or see it coming and allow them to exploit their range advantage much more easily, softening it up before it reaches them and giving them much better chances up close. Of course, you could mount JJs on that build by sacrificing heatsinks and ammo, but the splatterpult is already extremely hot and ammo hungry, so this decision would nerf it in another way decreasing its sustainable DPS and total damage inflicted per match.

Nerfing the torso twist would make a much smaller impact on the catapult than people would like to believe. After all, most of the actually good stalker pilots have easily adapted to the 5M's horrendous torso twist and can eat Atlases for breakfast at will with their ability to output 2 95-100 damage alphas one after another and then switch to only firing their 5 srm6 launchers for 75 damage per volley (5Ms usually have 21-22 dubs and cool down much faster than the catapults, although they do have higher heat spikes when alphaing). The torso twist nerf alone is not enough to balance the catapult, since it would still retain its deadly speed and mobility (achieved through JJs which allow it to turn around mid air quite fast).

Edited by Leimrey, 11 February 2013 - 07:57 AM.


#544 Leimrey

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 08:09 AM

After reading the previous posts I would like to make another comment. While the suggestion to add more splash damage that would prevent excessive facehugging is nice, I don't think it makes any sense lore wise. I'm no TT guru, but I assume that srms are akin to real life HEAT rounds, which employ the shaped charge effect to penetrate armor. This means that the explosive is used to create a high pressure jet of molten metal that penetrates armor and it could be said the explosives themselves are not the main mechanism of penetration, so the splash damage from explosions would be minimal, while the directed metal particle jet would not hurt the mech that fired the rounds.

#545 Havyek

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 08:38 AM

I've made a post in the Suggestion forum a while ago about bringing back the death explosions.

Is it TT and "real"? Maybe not, but when a 'Mech explodes and causes splash damage to anything around it for 100m, it'll stop a lot of face humping. At the least, those face humpers won't last past 1 or 2 kills doing that.

Plus it looks cool.

#546 Sifright

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 08:43 AM

View PostBDU Havoc, on 11 February 2013 - 08:38 AM, said:

I've made a post in the Suggestion forum a while ago about bringing back the death explosions.

Is it TT and "real"? Maybe not, but when a 'Mech explodes and causes splash damage to anything around it for 100m, it'll stop a lot of face humping. At the least, those face humpers won't last past 1 or 2 kills doing that.

Plus it looks cool.


God I hope this happens.

100 M explosion radius will be hilarious.

i'll alpha a couple of different targets and then when i blow one up at the end of the congo line the chain of dead man explosions will be glorious to behold.

#547 Havyek

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 08:51 AM

View PostSifright, on 11 February 2013 - 08:43 AM, said:

God I hope this happens.

100 M explosion radius will be hilarious.

i'll alpha a couple of different targets and then when i blow one up at the end of the congo line the chain of dead man explosions will be glorious to behold.

I was thinking more of the giant mushroom cloud that will happen when a team focus fires the ECM Atlas, and all of the 'Mechs hugging it for it's ECM umbrella go BOOM!

The conga line chain reaction would be funny too.

#548 Indoorsman

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 08:57 AM

View PostBDU Havoc, on 11 February 2013 - 08:38 AM, said:

I've made a post in the Suggestion forum a while ago about bringing back the death explosions.

Is it TT and "real"? Maybe not, but when a 'Mech explodes and causes splash damage to anything around it for 100m, it'll stop a lot of face humping. At the least, those face humpers won't last past 1 or 2 kills doing that.

Plus it looks cool.

So many reasons not to do this, most of them hilarious. Imagine, 8 ppl attacking your base... Send in 1 mech at a time to just stand there doing nothing until the explosions defend your base ;)

#549 Havyek

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 09:02 AM

View PostIndoorsman, on 11 February 2013 - 08:57 AM, said:

So many reasons not to do this, most of them hilarious. Imagine, 8 ppl attacking your base... Send in 1 mech at a time to just stand there doing nothing until the explosions defend your base ;)

Simple.

Make the bases bigger.
Leg the 'Mech until everyone is clear then finish it off.

I used 100m as an arbitrary number. 50-70m is probably enough to stop the face humping.

#550 Leimrey

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 09:05 AM

Actually, adding in mech explosion on death would make brawlers even better, in a sense. Why? Because when a facehugger is killed by the enemy team, he will also hurt the target he was facehugging for additional damage. It's a double edged sword that should not be tinkered with, in my opinion. Consider the following: most smart brawlers would easily adapt to this change and avoid facehugging staying outside of the 100m pocket, moving in to facehug only when they're about to die to hurt the target for extra damage. Besides, srms form quite tight clusters at 100m even without Artemis, so this wouldn't really nerf any of their brawling ability. And even then, most of the actually good brawlers avoid facehugging altogether when they can, because they know that they're preventing their teammates from shooting at their target effectively.

Edited by Leimrey, 11 February 2013 - 09:08 AM.


#551 Indoorsman

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 09:08 AM

View PostBDU Havoc, on 11 February 2013 - 09:02 AM, said:

Simple.

Make the bases bigger.
Leg the 'Mech until everyone is clear then finish it off.

I used 100m as an arbitrary number. 50-70m is probably enough to stop the face humping.

Ok then how would death from above work, there would all of a sudden be death from below as well ;)

#552 Havyek

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 09:13 AM

View PostIndoorsman, on 11 February 2013 - 09:08 AM, said:

Ok then how would death from above work, there would all of a sudden be death from below as well ;)

Yes.

Doesn't bother me none.

If you wanted to make it different, CT destruction causes biggest explosion, side torso destruction causing XL engine to explode causes smaller explosion, head destruction kills the pilot, therefor no explosion since the engine isn't destroyed. Also yields the greatest salvage since really nothing except the cockpit is destroyed.

Kill the meat, save the metal.

Edited by BDU Havoc, 11 February 2013 - 09:13 AM.


#553 Dr Hieronymous Alloy

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 09:16 AM

View PostIndoorsman, on 11 February 2013 - 08:57 AM, said:

So many reasons not to do this, most of them hilarious. Imagine, 8 ppl attacking your base... Send in 1 mech at a time to just stand there doing nothing until the explosions defend your base ;)


Finally, a purpose for the metal baby.

#554 Codejack

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 09:47 AM

View PostDeadlyNerd, on 11 February 2013 - 06:33 AM, said:


Because. unlike some of us that own it, who admit to it being broken, they want to keep piloting a mech that can pretty much 2-3 shot anything from the front and 1-2 shot anything from the back.
That, or they're just rubbish in piloting it and don't know the meaning of the term "ambush".

Oh and yeah, most of the A1 pilots I see have their flaps open the whole time, thus lowering the armor of ears. A skilled pilot opens flaps only before encounters he knows he'll hit right away, and closes flaps right after he decides it's a good time to run and hide.



Good pilots know how to counter srmcats.

#555 Indoorsman

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 09:49 AM

View PostCodejack, on 11 February 2013 - 09:47 AM, said:

Good pilots know how to counter srmcats.

But do good pilots know how to counter good pilots... IN SRMCATS!?

#556 Codejack

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 09:51 AM

View PostLeimrey, on 11 February 2013 - 08:09 AM, said:

After reading the previous posts I would like to make another comment. While the suggestion to add more splash damage that would prevent excessive facehugging is nice, I don't think it makes any sense lore wise. I'm no TT guru, but I assume that srms are akin to real life HEAT rounds, which employ the shaped charge effect to penetrate armor. This means that the explosive is used to create a high pressure jet of molten metal that penetrates armor and it could be said the explosives themselves are not the main mechanism of penetration, so the splash damage from explosions would be minimal, while the directed metal particle jet would not hurt the mech that fired the rounds.


Yea, and we've had shaped charges since at least the 1940s.

Of course, considering how ECM works, there is some possibility that there was a galaxy-wide plague that left the entire human race about 40 IQ points stupider.....

View PostIndoorsman, on 11 February 2013 - 09:49 AM, said:

But do good pilots know how to counter good pilots... IN SRMCATS!?


I don't care how good a pilot you are, SRMs just explode in midair at 271m.

#557 Indoorsman

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 09:59 AM

View PostCodejack, on 11 February 2013 - 09:51 AM, said:

I don't care how good a pilot you are, SRMs just explode in midair at 271m.

Now I know you're not being serious, everybody gets taken by surprise or is in an unfavourable situation sometimes.

Edited by Indoorsman, 11 February 2013 - 09:59 AM.


#558 Codejack

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 10:01 AM

View PostIndoorsman, on 11 February 2013 - 09:59 AM, said:

Now I know you're not being serious, everybody gets taken by surprise or is in an unfavourable situation sometimes.


Sure, but I can think of half a dozen loadouts that are just as dangerous in that situation, and usually more versatile; 9xMLAS hunchback, for example. 45 damage in one spot? Beat that with a stick.

#559 Indoorsman

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 10:06 AM

View PostCodejack, on 11 February 2013 - 10:01 AM, said:


Sure, but I can think of half a dozen loadouts that are just as dangerous in that situation, and usually more versatile; 9xMLAS hunchback, for example. 45 damage in one spot? Beat that with a stick.

9 MLAS hbks run very hot, takes 2 Alphas to deal the damage of 1 splatcat Alpha with exactly 3 times the heat generated. 1 second later the splatcat will be up to 180 damage and it'll take the hbk another 2 alphas to catch up and it will have overheated.

#560 Lukoi Banacek

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 10:11 AM

View PostIndoorsman, on 11 February 2013 - 09:59 AM, said:

Now I know you're not being serious, everybody gets taken by surprise or is in an unfavourable situation sometimes.


Right...and when they do, they fall prey to a Mech that's built fairly extreme....so much so that in situations where people don't fall into it's path due to surprise, they should be easy targets. If you maintain situational awareness, do not charge blindly into the enemy and control your movement....you should very rarely fall into this problem. And when you do, the SRMCAT who has sacrificed range, flexibility and frankly some armor on approach to you, has the advantage.

Mechs aren't balanced in all situations and at all ranges. SRMCATs are no different.





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