605 replies to this topic

[Jimskiavic]

Why do people always focus on the eugenics? They're overlooking other things ****** loved doing, like breathing. Breathing is evil I say! Boo breathing!

[CG Oglethorpe Kerensky]

Once you look past the fascism, eugenics program, lack of basic human rights, and a psychopathic warrior caste running everything under the constant threat of death...well the clans are pretty cool!

[TibsVT]

Personally I'm a fan of the Clans. The way their fighting is based un honour rather than underminded tactics. I agree with their whole set of rules and trials. In some cases they are a bit rugged but it's a system that works.

However that being said, I have the utmost respect for anyone who alligns themselves with the Inner Sphere once we have access to Clan Mechs. Those are the people who can honestly say they play the side they do because they are loyal to them. Any of us loyal the the Clans however have the other half who just want to use the Mechs because they are "better" or "cooler".

Be that as it may, sadly there is no way to honestly distinguish between the two Clan halves. I suppose from the game's point of view, that may be half the reason people hate the Clans though that hardly helps lore-wise.

[guardian wolf]

CG Oglethorpe Kerensky, on 11 March 2013 - 06:11 AM, said:

Once you look past the fascism, eugenics program, lack of basic human rights, and a psychopathic warrior caste running everything under the constant threat of death...well the clans are pretty cool!

*sighs* I'm not even gonna bother anymore.....

[CoffiNail]

guardian wolf, on 11 March 2013 - 10:35 AM, said:

*sighs* I'm not even gonna bother anymore.....

Notice his sig. Although I will admit he can put up a good argument when he is not trolling. This is not one of those times.

[Damion Wolf]

Koshirou, on 27 February 2013 - 03:12 PM, said:

Nothing veiled about it in my case.

@ Damion Wolf
You might want to try using words to communicate. In the best case scenario, these words would even form recognizable arguments. That would probably achieve something. But I fear you may be a little late to the party anyway, because I just assume you fall under the purview of my rhetorical question a few pages back:

You haven't been around in this thread for very long, I take it. For the reccord, I didn't even notice your post.

[Damocles69]

clammers are lame

[CoffiNail]

Damocles69, on 11 March 2013 - 12:59 PM, said:

clammers are lame

Until the Jade Falcons shove their Fist down the Lyran's backdoor.

See what I did there? I used your own House Emblem to insult you there.

[Strykewolf]

Tubies want to take my mead. Not without a fight.

Edited by Strykewolf, 11 March 2013 - 03:36 PM.

[CG Oglethorpe Kerensky]

guardian wolf, on 11 March 2013 - 10:35 AM, said:

*sighs* I'm not even gonna bother anymore.....

When Deitr Osis was defeated on Wolcott, what did he say before he died?
Everything that is horrifying about the clans, all the justification one needs to destroy their way of life was summed up by him right before an elemental murdered him for losing a battle.

Having an ER PPC that does 15 points of damage doesn't make you the 'Good Guys',

Ghandi once said that you can judge a society by how it treats its weakest members; the Clans use them for target practice.
When the clan warriors are sharpen their skills against the 'Dark Caste', who do you think they are shooting exactly?

[Sir Fuzzy]

The clans are... umm.. to much like the Draconis Combine? Damn those Warrior castes!

In all seriousness though, as someone who loved Warhammer 40K and L5R just as much as BT I cannot come up with any good reason not to like the clans. The clans essentially mix the best of Space Marines with the Samurai awesomeness of L5R mixed in with a bit of "THIS.. IS.. SPAAAAAARTAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!" for good measure. The only IS groupie that even comes close is the Draconis Combine.

It's like asking why someone hates the Protoss but loves the Zerg. Or why someone hates Elliott Smith but loves Justin Bieber.

Edited by Sir Fuzzy, 11 March 2013 - 04:54 PM.

[Grey Black]

Sir Fuzzy, on 11 March 2013 - 04:52 PM, said:

The clans are... umm.. to much like the Draconis Combine? Damn those Warrior castes!

In all seriousness though, as someone who loved Warhammer 40K and L5R just as much as BT I cannot come up with any good reason not to like the clans. The clans essentially mix the best of Space Marines with the Samurai awesomeness of L5R mixed in with a bit of "THIS.. IS.. SPAAAAAARTAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!" for good measure. The only IS groupie that even comes close is the Draconis Combine.

It's like asking why someone hates the Protoss but loves the Zerg. Or why someone hates Elliott Smith but loves Justin Bieber.

Question: What the **** is a Beiber?

[Sir Fuzzy]

Grey Black, on 11 March 2013 - 04:59 PM, said:

Question: What the **** is a Beiber?

It's a lot like an Urban Mech with no weapon(s) dressed in skinny jeans and equipped with a mega-phone so that the 12 year old pilot inside can talk about how awesome he is to his enemies.... only far, far worse.

Edited by Sir Fuzzy, 11 March 2013 - 05:08 PM.

[Grey Black]

Sir Fuzzy, on 11 March 2013 - 05:07 PM, said:

It's a lot like an Urban Mech with no weapon(s) dressed in skinny jeans and equipped with a mega-phone so that the 12 year old pilot inside can talk about how awesome he is to his enemies.... only far, far worse.

Oh, much like the typical Clan fanboy? Or, as I like to say, Clanboy?

[Visyac Cephias]

They kill sheep.

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/LAM

They deserve no mercy. The bastards.

[Saben Zero]

I don't like them for what they do to the player base. With their simply better tech and winner-take-all society playing as the clans is the option to take to play-to-win, and then people crow and preen about honor while looking down their noses at the IS. It's boorish. They're a Might-makes-Right society with a canon-given huge advantage. The braggidacio of the fanboys I find tiresome.

I actually find the clans themselves in the lore to be interesting. They found an interesting way to keep their society's fighters busy without wrecking everything. sadly this solution has the side-effect of bringing to the fore selfish even megalomaniacal people. Of course the IS has jerks as well, but they are held in check by the fractured nature of the Fuedal IS.

bah, this terribly rambling...

TL;DR: Clan Fanboys are like Raider Fans if the Raiders had nine-foot-tall Terminators.

[Maurdakar]

I hate the clans because clan fan boys:
-Are so focused on the clans sole moment of glory when they took the I.S. by surprise after a horrifying war.They act like the clans are somehow better than the I.S. pilots because 'muh eugenics program'.
They completely ignore the history after the clan invasion when the clans became entrenched in the same old conflict and became 'just another *******' faction of the I.S. Especially after they lost their tech advantage.

-Seem to expect to have access to better tech than other players who click on an I.S. faction in MWO. Ya that's a realistic prediction. How to video game?

-Often overlook the Clans rejection of core human traditions and how their lame, tired, overused, Klingon, Mandalorian, Orcish, practices are oppressive and outright offensive to the beauty of the human spirit.

I hate clans:
Because they heralded the continuing increase in Battle-tech weapon lethality which took Mech Warrior away from what makes it unique, sped up combat thus making it more like every other shooter.

Because despite the complete compromise of their humanity and common morality they are proven time and time again not to have gained any measurable edge over free births. Yet they continue their practices anyways.

Because their mechs are not humanoid. The whole point of the giant robot genre is that the machine transforms a character into a superhero, one who is still vulnerable and 'human' without their machine. It exists as their avatar and justifies them kicking so much *** on the battlefield, in a sci-fi setting.

Because they imply a governmental system where leaders are chosen through ritual combat is somehow more effective and functional and less ******** than the royal bloodlines of the I.S.

Because Omni-Mechs are less fun to engineer and use mechanically.

Because the writers continually glorified horrible fascism and violence and totally overlooked the reality of conquering and holding a planet for any length of time. Meanwhile I.S. continues to be portrayed as the jerks they are, without the fan-fic romantic violence.

I like the Clans because:
They mixed things up.

They quickly amassed a huge roster of yawn-inducing Mary-Sue un-killable unbelievable pilots. This allowed I.S. pilots to become more grounded and thus more interesting to read about because their adventures are more believable in the context of the fiction, the stakes are higher when you lose to Clanners, and the obstacles they must overcome are greater since they are up against dedicated warriors with better tech. Also the only way for I.S. pilots to win is by using their wits and superior tactics, which is more interesting than when the hero out-punches the villain to gain victory. The best example of this would be Turkayyid.

Clans will often screech: "DISHONORABLE TACTICS, YOU EMPLOYED SOME KIND OF, OF BRAIN MAGIC."
And there is no more satisfying sound in the Inner Sphere than this.

Edited by Maurdakar, 17 March 2013 - 02:28 PM.

[PaintedWolf]

Because their militarist Caste-System is oh so backwards, while the militarist Fedualism of the Successor States is oh so progressive. (I love how the cartoon presented Adam Steiner as a Freedom Fighter, and glossed over the fact that he was basically defending Feudalism. )

[Koshirou]

Maurdakar, on 17 March 2013 - 01:56 PM, said:

I hate the clans because clan fan boys:

I am sorry, but you do make the same basic mistake as these fanboys: You treat the Clans as if they were a real, existing society. They are just a fictional literary device. A horrible fictional literary device, true enough, that appears as if it was thought up by someone who read "The Iron Dream" and didn't get the freakin' joke.

PaintedWolf, on 17 March 2013 - 02:27 PM, said:

Because their militarist Caste-System is oh so backwards, while the militarist Fedualism of the Successor States is oh so progressive. (I love how the cartoon presented Adam Steiner as a Freedom Fighter, and glossed over the fact that he was basically defending Feudalism. )

That's actually a key difference in there:
- Most Inner Sphere governments are clearly modeled along the lines of medieval history, that is, a time period which is understood on a basic level by almost everyone to, and that is long enough ago not to arouse major passions anymore. The gaps are filled with, again very basic, common assumptions on how human society works (families, careers, etc.)
- The Clans, on the other hand, are presented as a "new" or "alien" type of society and one that, to put it mildly, incorporates some less than wholesome elements from very recent history. Presenting such a society in SF always carries the risk of real or imagined advocacy - a novel such as "Starship Troopers" is a prime example. With the hot steamy man-love emanating from various Clan sourcebooks and novels, it is obvious that FASA and its successors did not even try to avoid the impression of advocacy. The hordes of Clan fanboys who see the Clans as an actual model for society, an idea for which there are not enough pictures of Picard burying his face in his hand(s) on the entire Internet to adequately respond to, attests to this.

TL;DR: Inner Sphere is okay because it is modeled on an outdated social system no one seriously considers. Clans are not because they are presented as a "new" society that attracts fanboyism among stupid and/or fascist people.

[White Bear 84]

I dont hate clans. I go where the money is. Mercenary to hire. Enough said.