173 replies to this topic

[Ilwrath]

Yokaiko, on 04 February 2013 - 07:39 AM, said:

No because you would have entire teams dropping. WAY to easy to exploit.

Just like people who used to suicide rush in trials instead of playing out the game.

WoT marks premades. You can see at any time who is teamed up. Why can WoT do this while MWO cannot?
Its a mystery.

[Bguk]

Ilwrath, on 04 February 2013 - 07:41 AM, said:

WoT marks premades. You can see at any time who is teamed up. Why can WoT do this while MWO cannot?
Its a mystery.

Because they didn't get to it yet. Mystery solved.

[Z0MBIE Y0SHI]

I would love to see this implemented.

[Bguk]

Ilwrath, on 04 February 2013 - 07:07 AM, said:

How strange.

And I don't believe that. Very often its because I get people on my team that simply cannot do any damage.
Sometimes I even mess up all by myself but that don't happen very often.

What I do believe, strongly, is that the matchmaker like to put pure pubs on one team. Often against at least one premade on the other side. That is not impossible to beat but depends on the quality of the premade and the quality of the pure pub team.

Could have fooled me with how you're been posting on all the other threads on premades.

[Cordy Ceps]

Yokaiko, on 04 February 2013 - 07:39 AM, said:

No because you would have entire teams dropping. WAY to easy to exploit. Just like people who used to suicide rush in trials instead of playing out the game.

After the game would be fine, but before or during the games would be a terrible idea.

Exploit the information to prevent getting pug-stomped? So ppl should get pug-stomped in your opinion?

Besides, its a good right of ppl to drop. The do not need to eat the cactus theyre getting served, thanks.
I dont say its a good thing, but theyre free to do it. There will be a fine for DC anyway, dont worry.

On the other side, therell be pugs who adapt and get a chance, just look at the "I wish i had fraps" thread.

Yo dont want that? Why actually?

Edited by Cordy Ceps, 04 February 2013 - 07:46 AM.

[Ilwrath]

Bguk, on 04 February 2013 - 07:42 AM, said:

Because they didn't get to it yet. Mystery solved.

it was about "
No because you would have entire teams dropping. WAY to easy to exploit."

WoT does not have that problem.

Why should this game have that problem. Now that is a mysterious mystery indeed!

Did not get to it? You really believe that?

[Ilwrath]

Bguk, on 04 February 2013 - 07:43 AM, said:

Could have fooled me with how you're been posting on all the other threads on premades.

Oh really? The problem is mixed. You don't get only crap games, even with the current bad matchmaker. You get pure crapgames when you have a premade on one side and less than able pubs on the other side. There is no chance of a win with that setup. Its pointless to play then.

[KuruptU4Fun]

It would seem to me that the ELO system will help filter some of the PUG/ Premade "unfairness" as it's called. What about those who can't field even a full 4 man? Do their contributions/ failures to win a match add to this debate?

It would seem that creating yet another option in MM would be to have the servers recognize that a 4MT are only allowed to join other 4/4/4 team match ups. But honestly that could create complications too. Then the servers also to the only other real option to put 2/3MT's in with the solo PUGer's.

If you believe that even option is unacceptable than I'd like to point out that the mathematics behind creating even teams using 2/3 man teams into a 8vs8 match up would take a lot of time and throw people off of playing in the first place.

[Bguk]

Ilwrath, on 04 February 2013 - 07:45 AM, said:

it was about "
No because you would have entire teams dropping. WAY to easy to exploit."

WoT does not have that problem.

Why should this game have that problem. Now that is a mysterious mystery indeed!

Did not get to it? You really believe that?

Eh, thought it was in general. Misunderstood.

This game should have that problem because the population isn't as large as WoT currently. People already disconnect over the thought of a premade, to have it in the game they would just disconnect sooner.

And yes, I do believe they haven't gotten around to it yet.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

Hallo Cordy


Ich denke ,du kannst WOT nicht mit MW vergleichen ,dafür ist letzteres zu kompliziert , hast du bei Wot so viele verschiedene waffensysteme ,Hitze etc etc etc ...jeder Veteran ist einem Pug bei MWO überlegen ,weil er Taktiken des Mechkampfes kennt...wie willst du aus sortieren ? was ist ein premade? anfangs,war es hier jeder ,der mit anderen über TS kommuniziert ,das kann MWO nicht prüfen , inzwischen sind wohl mehr Clans gemeint ,oder ist auch schon ein unerfahrenes Team mit TS Premade? ...der häufigste Grund für Niederlagen sind fehlende Fähigkeiten im mechkampft und in jeglicher Form von Taktik, Wenn man allein nur 250 Damage macht ,und einen oder mehr Abschüsse hat ,und der Rest vom Team schafft nicht mal in einem Assault mehr als 50 Damagepoints ist klar warum man verliert ,dazu DCs,Botfarmer, und Rambospieler.60% der Spieler hätten nicht in die Beta eines unbekannten spiels rennen sollen ,sondern warten ,bis es fertig ist ,und es auch ein tutorial gibt, Bis dahin sollte man sich einer Gruppe von Veteranen anschliessen um zu lernen
translated with abacho from german



I think, you can compare WOT not to MW, for it is too complicated latter, do you have with Wot so many different weapon systems, heat etc. etc. etc.... every ex-serviceman is to a Pug with MWO consider because he tactics of the Mechfight knows... like want you to sort from? what is premade? in the beginning, was it here everybody which communicates with others about TS, this cannot check MWO, in the meantime, are probably meant of more clan, or is already an inexperienced team with TS Premade?
... the most frequent reason for defeats are missing(lacking) abilities in mechfight and in each form from tactics if one makes alone only 250 Damage, and has one or more firings, and the rest(remainder) of the team does not create sometimes in an Assault more than 50 Damagepoints is clear why one loses, in addition DCs, Botfarmer, and Rambospieler.60 % of the players should have run not in the beta of an unknown play, but wait, until it is ready, and there is also tutorial,

Cordy Hello

[MaddMaxx]

Ilwrath, on 04 February 2013 - 07:07 AM, said:

And I don't believe that. Very often its because I get people on my team that simply cannot do any damage.
Sometimes I even mess up all by myself but that don't happen very often.

What I do believe, strongly, is that the matchmaker like to put pure pubs on one team. Often against at least one premade on the other side. That is not impossible to beat but depends on the quality of the premade and the quality of the pure pub team.

But without some form of hard evidence to corroborate such a claim, you may as well just re-adjust your tin foil hat.

I think the highlighted sentence is much more likely to be the majority in most cases.

Edited by MaddMaxx, 04 February 2013 - 08:02 AM.

[Cordy Ceps]

CSJ Ranger, on 04 February 2013 - 07:53 AM, said:

Hallo Cordy


Ich denke ,du kannst WOT nicht mit MW vergleichen ,dafür ist letzteres zu kompliziert , hast du bei Wot so viele verschiedene waffensysteme ,Hitze etc etc etc ...jeder Veteran ist einem Pug bei MWO überlegen ,weil er Taktiken des Mechkampfes kennt...wie willst du aus sortieren ? was ist ein premade? anfangs,war es hier jeder ,der mit anderen über TS kommuniziert ,das kann MWO nicht prüfen , inzwischen sind wohl mehr Clans gemeint ,oder ist auch schon ein unerfahrenes Team mit TS Premade? ...der häufigste Grund für Niederlagen sind fehlende Fähigkeiten im mechkampft und in jeglicher Form von Taktik, Wenn man allein nur 250 Damage macht ,und einen oder mehr Abschüsse hat ,und der Rest vom Team schafft nicht mal in einem Assault mehr als 50 Damagepoints ist klar warum man verliert ,dazu DCs,Botfarmer, und Rambospieler.60% der Spieler hätten nicht in die Beta eines unbekannten spiels rennen sollen ,sondern warten ,bis es fertig ist ,und es auch ein tutorial gibt, Bis dahin sollte man sich einer Gruppe von Veteranen anschliessen um zu lernen
translated with abacho from german



I think, you can compare WOT not to MW, for it is too complicated latter, do you have with Wot so many different weapon systems, heat etc. etc. etc.... every ex-serviceman is to a Pug with MWO consider because he tactics of the Mechfight knows... like want you to sort from? what is premade? in the beginning, was it here everybody which communicates with others about TS, this cannot check MWO, in the meantime, are probably meant of more clan, or is already an inexperienced team with TS Premade?
... the most frequent reason for defeats are missing(lacking) abilities in mechfight and in each form from tactics if one makes alone only 250 Damage, and has one or more firings, and the rest(remainder) of the team does not create sometimes in an Assault more than 50 Damagepoints is clear why one loses, in addition DCs, Botfarmer, and Rambospieler.60 % of the players should have run not in the beta of an unknown play, but wait, until it is ready, and there is also tutorial,

Cordy Hello

Um ehrlich zu sein, ich finde WoT komplexer als MWO im Moment. Ich denke, ich kann mir diese Meinung erlauben, da ich zu meiner aktiven Zeit zu den oberen 5% der WoT EU servers gehört habe. Was MWO simpel macht, sind die Maps. Die Taktiken sind sehr eingeschränkt, Kampfentfernungen sind in 90% der fälle <200m. In Wot, ist es eine Kunst zur richtigen Zeit am richtigen Ort zu sein. In MWO, wo ein Überschwerer so schnell rennt wie ein t-50-2 fährt, die maps aber kleiner sind, geht diese Komplexität verloren. Die Positionswahl beschränkt sich im großen auf "Ridge or tunnel".

Dennoch finde ich, dass beide Spiele sehr gut verglichen werden können, und dass WoT sehr viele gute und innovative Ansätze ins FTP-Shooter-Genre gebracht hat, von denen MWO profitieren kann.
Versteh mich nicht falsch, ich will kein zweites WOT, sonst würde ich WoT spielen.
Aber Wot hat imao mittlerweile eine sehr gute Balance erreicht, sowohl für solo als auch für teamspieler. Insofern ist es nicht verwunderlich, dass ich in diese Richtung schaue.

In english:

To be honest, i think WoT is more complex then MWO atm. I can do this comparison because in my active time, ive been among the top 5% of the european WoT server. What makes MWO simple are the Maps. The Tactics are limited, fighting ranges are in 90% of all case <200m. In WoT its an Art to be in the right place at the right time. In MWO, where an assault runs as fast as a T-50-2 can drive and the maps are smaller, this comlexity gets lost. More often then not, positionong gets reduced to "ridge or tunnel".

Nevertheless, i find WoT and MWO very comparable and that WoT has brought many good and innovative solutions into the FTP-shooter-genre. MWO can profit heavily from them.
Dont get me wrong, I dont want a second WoT, or id be playing WoT right now.
BUT imao, WoT has reached a very good balancing, for solo and for teamplayers, so its only natural for me to look in their direction for MWO-problem solutions.

Edited by Cordy Ceps, 04 February 2013 - 08:14 AM.

[Dagger6T6]

i don't really care to get into the premade vs PUG civil war... but I have been running a number of solo matches lately and it seems the pattern I'm detecting is that team sides are more swayed into Founder vs non-Founder

maybe this is purely random, but I saw a number of matches in which one team had 0 Founders and the other had nearly all Founders... pure coincidence? maybe, but it seemed to happen quite often. Now I do realize that maybe some people have the Founder tag turned off, and Founder tag does not indicate any sort of skill level... but it is probably safe to say that someone with a Founders tag is more than likely familiar with the Mechwarrior/Battletech universe etc, therefore probably more adept in the cockpit or more familiar with the game mechanics. Or maybe it is more likely that those that are Founders are probably in some sort of organized group, maybe related or unrelated

It was something I just noticed, granted it is probably a small sample size

Edited by Dagger6T6, 04 February 2013 - 08:12 AM.

[Ilwrath]

Bguk, on 04 February 2013 - 07:52 AM, said:

Eh, thought it was in general. Misunderstood.

This game should have that problem because the population isn't as large as WoT currently. People already disconnect over the thought of a premade, to have it in the game they would just disconnect sooner.

I don't think its that much about population. The main difference about premading in this game and WoT is that WoT has 3 out of 15 as a premade. I think its 15 that is the WoT team size but my memory may be wrong. At least its larger than MWO's teams.

Here you have 50% and up to 100% premading. That lets premade have a much bigger impact on the matches. In WoT one good players could impact the match enough to help their team win. If you are up against a premade here you alone hardly matter.

I never took a look at the matching in WoT and thought "oh noes they have several premades and we have zero. We are done for" Because it did not really matter. I won more games than I lost by 8% while doing pure pub there.

Bguk, on 04 February 2013 - 07:52 AM, said:

And yes, I do believe they haven't gotten around to it yet.

Has there been any info about them even talking about doing that?

[KuruptU4Fun]

Since Cordy forgot to use Google Translate, I'll do it for him.

To be honest, I find WoT complex than MWO at the moment. I think I can afford this opinion, since I've heard about my playing days to the upper 5% of the WoT EU servers. What does MWO simple, are the maps. The tactics are very limited, fighting distances are in 90% of cases <200m. In Wot, it is to be an art form at the right time at the right place. Moves into MWO, where an over Serious runs as fast as a T-50-2, the maps are small, however, this complexity is lost. The position is limited to the large choice of "Ridge or tunnel".

However, I think that both games can be compared very well, and that WoT has brought a lot of good and innovative approaches to the FTP shooter genre, which will contribute to MWO.
Do not get me wrong, I do not want a second WOT, otherwise I would be playing WoT.
But Wot Imao has now achieved a very good balance, both solo as well as team player. So it is not surprising that I look in that direction.

[Livewyr]

I see no problem with giving group numbers to people that show up in games..

No shame in teaming, no need to hide it.

[Wraith05]

I've got no problem marking premades, maybe in the end scorecard to avoid the scared DCs. But if it's at the beginning I'm ok with that also.

As for if it's you or your team, I am not calling you bad but any loss is usually the result of the team playing worse than the other. So yes it is you and your team. Groups just have an easier time working together because going into a match they know that at least 4 of them will be coordinated. And VOIP does make communication quicker allowing slightly faster reactions.

But anytime i've pugged i've never wrote my loss off as due to a premade. I usually knew why we lost: I went off on my own, my team scattered, they were fring at everything, they were missing. We had an AFK or DC, we walked into an ambush, we didn't use cover etc...

[Cordy Ceps]

KuruptU4Fun, on 04 February 2013 - 08:12 AM, said:

Since Cordy forgot to use Google Translate, I'll do it for him.

To be honest, I find WoT complex than MWO at the moment. I think I can afford this opinion, since I've heard about my playing days to the upper 5% of the WoT EU servers. What does MWO simple, are the maps. The tactics are very limited, fighting distances are in 90% of cases <200m. In Wot, it is to be an art form at the right time at the right place. Moves into MWO, where an over Serious runs as fast as a T-50-2, the maps are small, however, this complexity is lost. The position is limited to the large choice of "Ridge or tunnel".

However, I think that both games can be compared very well, and that WoT has brought a lot of good and innovative approaches to the FTP shooter genre, which will contribute to MWO.
Do not get me wrong, I do not want a second WOT, otherwise I would be playing WoT.
But Wot Imao has now achieved a very good balance, both solo as well as team player. So it is not surprising that I look in that direction.

I did as an edit Pls look above

Edited by Cordy Ceps, 04 February 2013 - 08:19 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

dagger lots of Founders have turned off their Tag for what ever reason. So sometimes those non founders are just in sheep's clothing.

[Exodus 2pt0]

Cordy Ceps, on 04 February 2013 - 06:35 AM, said:

And, please, no "Its your fault for not teaming up"- posts. Ive been in several Clans till now, didnt enjoy it.
My RL friends are not into MMOs. Thats it

It IS your fault for not teaming up.

Whether or not there is a pre-made in the game shouldn't change your play style. If you work together, you are essentially a pre-made.