74 replies to this topic

[SC1P1O]

I recently got very bored of using DDC's, Splat Cats. 3L, Stalker and K2. So I asked my buddies in house liao what mech I should buy that would breath new life into the game and that offers a play-style that will require a challenge to be successful. The general consensus was to try a dragon. After playing more that 20 matches in the dragon I have come to the conclusion that its a good mech, but it hurts the team. Playing the dragon is definitely a thrill, using strategy to flank the enemy, to harass and distract, or to sit back and wait for the time to jump into a brawl and help your team. The one Drawback is that the way its hard points are set up and the fact that its in the class of catapults and cataphracts, the moment you start the game your team is potentially behind in firepower. I know the argument that pilot skill outweighs potential differences in hard-points and alpha capabilities, but it seems that I would help my group out better by running a splat cat or ac20 cat, than getting into my dragon. In addition in a one on one battle with a k2 or a1 even using hit and run tactics the fact that I have a large ct means im likely to die, i know from experience that in those battles I usually crush the dragon. The k2 and A1 can almost match the dragon in speed, while having the same or more firepower. Thus my question to you is, do you think the dragon can be a viable replacement for a K2, A1, or illya? And if so why.

[1453 R]

Your team may be behind in firepower, but they're ahead in speed. 'Almost' isn't the same as doing so.

I find that the Dragon is best thought of as a slightly oversized medium - a real medium, not a Hunchback - rather than as an undergunned heavy. You're not going to match the firepower of a Catapult or a Cataphract, but you will generally be faster to a lot faster than those other 'Mechs. With a 350XL and Speed Tweak my Flame can hit 104 kph, and that's not even the highest-rated engine in the class. Neither of the game's other heavies can match that, and the JagerMech can't even realistically hope to try when it comes out.

Dragons can make effective light hunters and fast responders. Their value is lower in PUG fights which're generally decide by brute force/which side landed more D-DCs, but in a more coordinated group your Dragons can skirmish at the front with the fatties and still be fast enough to fall back and protect any missile boats still brave enough to try for locks in this day and age, or outrace a lot of other machines to cap points in Conquest.

If you're not making as much use of the Dragon's mobility as you can, you're not really making use of the Dragon.

Edited by 1453 R, 05 February 2013 - 06:39 AM.

[Mechteric]

@OP, please try to remember to split into paragraphs when writing more than 4 or 5 lines of text. Its not that I'm trying to be a grammar ****, its just much harder to actually read text when its formatted like that.


I really like the Flame due to it not needing to rely on its arm for the prime weapon. Perfect fit for having a fast AC20 based mech!

Edited by CapperDeluxe, 05 February 2013 - 06:44 AM.

[Wriath]

SC1P10, I'll talk to ya on teamspeak some next time I see you, Dragons rock.

[OneEyed Jack]

SC1P1O, on 05 February 2013 - 06:25 AM, said:

I know the argument that pilot skill outweighs potential differences in hard-points and alpha capabilities

No it doesn't, because the same pilot in a better mech will just plain do better.

SC1P1O, on 05 February 2013 - 06:25 AM, said:

Thus my question to you is, do you think the dragon can be a viable replacement for a K2, A1, or illya? And if so why.

Not at this time. I think people should play what they enjoy, and the Dragon has a distinct style separate from the other heavies. If you're Dragon isn't considerably faster than any Cat or CTF, you're not playing to it's strength. And with it's superior arm movement, it can keep on target better than even a Cat. It's not a replacement, because it's used differently, and can be very effective when used well.

All that said, there will generally be some hampering to the team. Until a better balancing of mechs than simply weight class is added, you face the problem of handing your opponents a sizable advantage in firepower, akin to the problems of the Awesome and Spider, and the Dragon is neither small nor fast enough to dodge fire the way lights and Cicadas do. But unless you're playing with a competitive team, don't worry about it and just have fun. You can still be pretty successful. I bought a Flame just for the hell of it, and found it enough fun I bought 2 other Dragons so I could Elite it. In so doing, I found I enjoyed the -1N enough that I kept it as well, and am working on Mastering it.

[Malsumis]

This post is exactly what bothers me about the current state of this game. Players gravitate to the "I win" mechs and then think all the other mechs are useless or hurt the team. I am so tired of the lack of originality with the player base when getting into matches. It's all DDC's, 3L's, or A1's with the occasional daring pilot taking a Dragon, Centurion, or even and Awesome. The pilot most certainly makes the difference as well as chassis setup. I run 2 Dragon chassis as I've mastered both and I am usually top 3 on the team. I don't charge in recklessly, but I also don't sit back and wait for kill shots. I use my chassis setups in the way that they are designed and can handle myself at range or in tight. Piloting skill makes all the difference. The mechs described above are what most consider "cheese" builds. I'll admit, the K2 (gauss or AC20) cat I like and is fun to use. I have not tried the splatcat yet. I'm sure I'll try it out and have some laughs, but it really looks like a easy setup to do well with. The DDC is a joke to me. 100 tons, ECM, and 3 missile hardpoints (almost always with SRM's) it's too easy to close in with.

There's so much more to this game. Get out of your cookie cutter mechs and try something new. Make yourself a better mech pilot. Try something without ECM.

[Tastian]

I absolutely love my Dragons and was elated when the Flame was announced. I've always hated that its the lightest heavy and decry the fact that I'm giving the opposite team potentially a srm cat or ac20 cat or ilya. Certainly a cat or phract can hold more firepower but my Flame has no problem outmaneuvering them.

I justify it this way: If I get 2 kills in a match (including at least 1 heavy or assault) and do more then 300 damage I think I've done my job. If I can't get even 1 kill or do less then 300 damage I've probably hurt my team and should bring something better to the table. And the result: I'm still bringing my Flame

[SC1P1O]

As for the grammar and punctuation, sorry about that. I Think I'm looking at this from a more competitive standpoint. I have a lot of fun driving a dragon, and I am a relatively good pilot, It just seems that what the dragon has to offer the Catapult can do better for 5 more tons and maybe 20 to 10 kph less, But if your a dragon running 100 and realize you might have bitten to much off I'm fast enough to put one or 2 more alphas into you before you escape. I want the dragon to work, and I know that in a dragon your not going to be the huge damage outputting high kill mech. But it seems that even piloted well when facing an equally skilled opponent in a cat your at a distinct disadvantage, so how do you build a hit and run mech that has to be within 270 meters that's competitive with an A1 or DDC,

You might say that I am playing the mech wrong, but in many pug drops I am the last one left and I have to take on one or two heavies and assaults. So is it even possible to do this in a dragon?

Also Ill hit you up wraith! Go House Liao!!

[Skyscream Sapphire]

After having spent considerable time the last few days in both my favorite Catapult (C1 with 300XL, 3xLL, and 2SRM6 + Artemis) and my favorite Dragon (Flame with 360XL, 3xLL, and 1xSSRM2) I can't disagree more with the OP!

I was about equally successful in both mechs. What the Dragon lacked in firepower it made up for in speed and maneuverability. Even though it had less weapons, I could get into position to fire them more often (the fully articulated arms also help here) so my damage per round was about the same. For killing blows, the Cat had a big alpha to get the final damage in but the Dragon could chase down the smoking mechs and position itself to get a clear shot at the unarmored components, so I ended up with a similar amount of kills.

They filled slightly different roles. The Cat could stand next to my teammates and go toe to toe against the other heavies and assaults. Meanwhile the Dragon could scout ahead, then come back and pick off the lights harassing my teammates, and then support their damage while circle strafing the heavies and assaults.

As far as defense goes, the Cat only has a little more armor and both have fat center torsos. The Cataphract has a smaller CT but more than makes up for it with vulnerable side torsos that make it difficult to run an XL engine and survive. In any of them, torso twist when you aren't firing your shots will be key to spreading the damage across all the armor. I feel like all 3 are probably equally durable, when played to their strengths, despite the weight differences.

Slightly different play styles, but in the end, same results!

[John MatriX82]

1453 R, on 05 February 2013 - 06:39 AM, said:

If you're not making as much use of the Dragon's mobility as you can, you're not really making use of the Dragon.

Words that should be written in the stone.

[Flapdrol]

The flame has nice hardpoints, the rest of the dragons dont, that's its biggest weakness.

[Mechteric]

Flapdrol, on 05 February 2013 - 07:35 AM, said:

The flame has nice hardpoints, the rest of the dragons dont, that's its biggest weakness.

Actually the 1N can be made pretty formidable as well, here you go this one is free

DRG-1N

or similar with Fang (SRM6+AMS replaces 2xSRM4): FANG

Edited by CapperDeluxe, 05 February 2013 - 07:45 AM.

[DegeneratePervert]

As others have stated, the Flame is a really, really good dragon, and I never mind dropping along-side one. Pack 4 large lasers on that thing, and you've got a beast of a machine. The fang is OK with Gauss, but it's arm is fragile.

[Adridos]

If you'd like to try out how it is to play a real medium mech (unless you've played with the advanced Centurion), then the Dragon is the only choice... and a great one.

[Phoenix Gray]

SC1P1O, on 05 February 2013 - 06:25 AM, said:

So I asked my buddies in house liao what mech I should buy ... Thus my question to you is, do you think the dragon can be a viable replacement for a K2, A1, or illya? And if so why.

There's your mistake right there. "There are no great Capellan Solaris champions": taking 'Mech from them is like buying a used camel on Astrokazy. Secondly, if the Dragon was good enough for Takeo Kurita to order built, it's good enough for you, by the Five Pillars...!

[John MatriX82]

Flapdrol, on 05 February 2013 - 07:35 AM, said:

The flame has nice hardpoints, the rest of the dragons dont, that's its biggest weakness.

1N and 1C are absolutely fine. Flame is a 1C with "specular" hardpoints, and its existence is what held me from buying the Flame.. Besides 4Ml +AC20 & STD 280/285 I'd not run it much differently than what I do with 1C.

[SC1P1O]

I Like the mech alot, I dont have the money for MC and Fang or Flame, so my question is what is some advanced strategies i can utilize to make the most out of my mech, I dont own the 1N atm im trying to level up the other 2 first. But i torso twist, i use cover, i dont attack unless im sure i have an advantage, but it always feels like im not doing enough to help my team. It may be i dont focus on components enough, but how would you play it to get the most out of your dragon to help the team?

also Arm mounted ballistics I'm guessing you just need to play a lot with them to get a feel for where and when to shoot? any tips on that would be great.

[Phoenix Gray]

CapperDeluxe, on 05 February 2013 - 07:39 AM, said:

Actually the 1N can be made pretty formidable as well, here you go this one is free

DRG-1N

or similar with Fang (SRM6+AMS replaces 2xSRM4): FANG

Nice. Only thing I'd suggest is mixing your AC5 and SRM ammo in each leg; that way if you take one leg hit you don't lose an entire weapons system.

[Spectre999]

The Dragon can do one thing that the Cat and Ctf can't - run around at 101 kmh. That's it's redeeming feature and the very thing you should focus on. You can scout, hit and run and capture.
If you want a dps platform, indeed the dragon is not for you. The strength is not in the amount of damage you deal, but how you apply it. And you have the agility to apply it to the exposed backsides.

The dragon is not a boomcat, but packing dual SRM4 and an AC10 on a 1N, you don't want me behind you as a foe.

Quote

also Arm mounted ballistics I'm guessing you just need to play a lot with them to get a feel for where and when to shoot? any tips on that would be great.

No magic to it. Rule no.1 is to remember that the arm mount is low, so see if there are no obstructions on the bullet's path. Rule no. 2 is stabilize your aim before you pull the trigger (i.e. don't wave that mouse frantically, if it helps, slow down or even stop the mech, walking backwards also helps),and that's it. Indeed, it takes practice before you can hit a moving target while you yourself are moving, but it's doable. The key is steady nerves and timing your shot.
Before trying to hit stuff with AC10 or 20, you may try your luck with LBX 10 (easier to aim), or the AC5 or 2 - higher rof means it's easier to adjust the shot.

Edited by Spectre999, 05 February 2013 - 08:40 AM.

[NRP]

You've said that you're already bored with mechs that everyone agrees are either best in class or pure cheese, so why not challenge yourself by using a mech that isn't considered "optimal"?

Try piloting a Dragon or an Awesome. You might actually be surprised.