75 replies to this topic

[Suicidal Idiot]

Alfred VonGunn, on 27 May 2012 - 03:11 AM, said:

The thing your forgetting in the WHY of this is that.. If you know a certian Regiment has X number of Hunchbacks and Y number of Ravens ect.. You also know EXACTLY what they will need for ammo and parts... Toss in customized mechs and Omni-mechs and you have created an logistical nightmare... since you now have to have a LOT more different things shiped to that unit just in case..

or you could use the interchangability to REDUCE the logistical nightmare by loading exactly the same type of weapons into everybody's hardpoints, regardless of the original equipment. That would let you have just a few standardized ammo types that everybody could share, while you were still taking advantage of whatever mech chassis you came across.

I can't see a commander discarding a captured mech just because it isn't standardized to his supply chain.

Rambling real world example tucked away...

Spoiler

A real world example is WWII, where the Germans captured allied planes, and replaced the engines and guns with standard German issue stuff.

The Germans often patched together allied bombers that went down and belly landed (destroying props and engines) in German territory. Normally the hydraulics would be gone at this point, so no landing gear. They would be empty the bombs, replace the engines and load them up with machine guns and ammo. Then they would go back up and infiltrate the 'box' bomber formations of 10x10x10 planes. Then they'd open up the machine guns, and in the middile of 1000 bombers per box, it was impossible to miss.

Even worse was when the other bombers would shoot back. Once that started, it got ugly quickly, with 100's of planes shooting at each other. It got so bad that soon, any bomber separated from it's group was on it's own. Heartbreaking, but necessary.

The trick was uncovered when a pilot noticed that the engines on an infiltrating plane were inline (like a car), instead of radial (flat circle).

The Germans would also repaint them in Luftwaffe colors and fly them. Especially closer to the end as their production was destroyed.

If you've ever heard a single B-17 flying overhead, imagine how the earth must have shook as two or three 10x10x10 box formations of 1000 bombers each flew overhead. Try not to think of the hell on earth as each of them dropped a string of 250 or 500 lb bombs. at the same time. on your neighborhood. Glad this is all just for fun.

Edited by Suicidal Idiot, 28 May 2012 - 01:00 AM.

[Suicidal Idiot]

RealSoladrin, on 27 May 2012 - 03:15 AM, said:

A partical cannon also has capacitators, that's for certain. XD

I would think that the PPC would be a cyclotron/oscillating linear accelerator powering up plasma in a magnetic containment bottle until it has enough energy to blast downrange, and instead of storing the power in capacitors, the energy would be stored in the plasma itself.

I guess the entire cannon could be thought of as a capacitor. Another possibility is that capacitors are mentioned somewhere in the literature. It's just that from the descriptions I've read, there would be waaaay too much power to hold in capacitors, since it's supposed to be guns just puking an overload of energy in the form of charged particle lightning.

Technically, an electron beam welder would qualify as a very low power PPC. Ford welds cars together with 'em. In fact, a mig or arc welder would also qualify. If you hike the potential high enough, you wouldn't need a ground clamp. Like a lightning bolt doesn't.

[Sassori]

Kartr, on 27 May 2012 - 08:03 PM, said:

All the more reason to have your military using a standardized set of equipment, at least missile and ballistic weapons. That way when you're "importing" ammo from another planet you know for certain that it will work with the guns your military is using.

<SNIP A LOTTA STUFF!>

I don't necessarily disagree with any of that, I'm simply saying arguing about standardization is pointless as it doesn't exist in the mythical universe we are playing MechWarrior in except for the Clans. Since the weapons aren't standardized, then their link ups are not identical. Since the weapons aren't standardized they may not use the same power requirements.

For example:

PPC A fires a cohesive stream of energy for .5 seconds

PPC B fires a 'slug' of energy instantly. Both do 10 damage to a single location and generate 10 heat.

Both PPC's, but not the same weapon and can't necessarily be fit into any PPC slot.

Considering the amount of field repairs, salvaged weapon switching etc, standardization just goes straight out the window. All I meant. It doesn't exist in the MechWarrior universe cept for the Clans.

[wanderer]

LordDeathStrike, on 27 May 2012 - 08:32 PM, said:

a fusion IMPLOSION is highly likely, and the aftermath of an IMPLOSION looks alot like and EXPLOSION except all the radiation and heat is sucked in instead of expelled out, afterwards a dust cloud mushroom forms as the air rushes to fill the void left by the IMPLOSION.

glad to clear that up, physics class 100% grade finally comes in handy.

We can do better, as the whole thing about what happens when a fusion reactor goes critical is actually IN THE RULEBOOKS, IN DETAIL.

Most of a fusion reactor's chamber is...empty space. And a vaccuum at that. Chamber failure is more like your thermos cracking than it is a nuclear boomsplosion, as the lack of said vaccuum is also aces at quenching the whole reaction. Usually messes up the engine itself pretty fierce, but the big ol' explosions of Mechwarrior 4 or Stackpole's fiction are just that in-canon. Fiction.

[CommieGIR]

Alexander Johannisburg, on 27 May 2012 - 02:59 AM, said:

being that the Hollander is a 35 ton mech, any mech of the same weight should be able to mount a GR, having said that, the critical space needed (as mentioned) prevents the lights from mounting one, i believe. Because Inner Sphere mechs has specific hardpoints available to them on specific designs (which is why, if you played MW4 the mechs has the red/yellow/green boxes on the equip screen) and it was not until omni mechs were first "discovered" by IS engineers that the IS mechs started to use the omni-technology. now, why the IS never looked into omni tech is beyond me... seems to me, building a modular design for one system (IE ballistic weapons, or energy or missile) it seems only natural that you would, in the interest of decreasing overall maint. cost and difficulty make all your weapons use the same modular system, meaning no more square, triangular, or round pegs/holes, only round holes/pegs for everything, only makes too much sense. but hey, what do I know, right? lol

My understanding was that mechs with a specific loadout (IE every single mech except omni's) had to have the same loadout unless it was a specific variant, which had been produced for specifically those and no other weapons. so no matter what unless it was a variant, your hunchback had to have that AC in the shoulder, and nothing else and nowhere else. some of that was, in my eyes, an agent of the "fall of man" after the starleague, and how nobody knew how to change things and the rest was to keep the visually striking silhouettes so targeting comps and sensors and eyes and everything could tell a mech apart from 1-2 km away by look alone.

I'm a little late to the game in this post, but no, that is not how mechs work, and its not how the Battletech Universe works, that is how MW4 worked.

In the Battletech universe you can find multiple different loadouts for every chassis, and you are not locked to that, most mechs allow you to customize weapons loadouts.


MW3 was closer to true Battletech than MW4.

You have to remember, some mechs were no longer made, as well as some weapons systems hard to find ammo and parts for. So are you supposed to just decommission a mech because you ran out of AC-20 ammo? Nope, you rip off the AC-20 and put something else in its place.

wanderer, on 28 May 2012 - 09:56 AM, said:

We can do better, as the whole thing about what happens when a fusion reactor goes critical is actually IN THE RULEBOOKS, IN DETAIL.

Most of a fusion reactor's chamber is...empty space. And a vaccuum at that. Chamber failure is more like your thermos cracking than it is a nuclear boomsplosion, as the lack of said vaccuum is also aces at quenching the whole reaction. Usually messes up the engine itself pretty fierce, but the big ol' explosions of Mechwarrior 4 or Stackpole's fiction are just that in-canon. Fiction.

According to Battletech rules, the reactor CAN explode, granted the radius is small and not like a nuclear explosion, but its an explosion nonetheless

Edited by CommieGIR, 28 May 2012 - 04:58 PM.

[Beazle]

Alfred VonGunn, on 27 May 2012 - 02:32 AM, said:

I just hope they move away from teh TT bs and make it so Gauss RIfle ammo DOES NOT EXPLODE... There is no reason that is should since it has no gun powder and no other explosive in it.. A ammo hit to Gauss rifle should just destroy the feed and disable the gun.. nothing else...

In TT gauss ammo doesn't explode.......

Gauss RIFLES explode. The charged capacitors of a gauss rifle will detonate when hit, causing a fairly small (20pt) explosion.

[Aerik Lornes]

The gauss rifle explodes for the same reason machine guns only have an effective range of 90 meters... The designers felt it improved game balance or just thought it was a cool idea that didn't screw up game balance too much.

The Battletech game has it's own physics and natural laws that have nothing to do with ours. It's best not to think about them too hard. Just remember it's a game that's not intended to be anything but cool and fun.

[frostfly]

I think this thread exists just to kill catgirls.

[Thrishmal]

So, would I be able to build a cata with at least two Gause rifles then in place of the launchers?

That might be fun in a way.

[nad2357]

Thrishmal, on 28 May 2012 - 07:30 PM, said:

So, would I be able to build a cata with at least two Gause rifles then in place of the launchers?

That might be fun in a way.

i thought there was a catapult variation called the katapult that was essentially that

[Tadakuma]

I suspect that your best option for a fast mech with a Guass rifle will be the Centurion, if you can get the upgraded version with is (6/9) you can drop the LBX 10 and LRM - 10 with Artemis (this gives you 20 tonnes to spare) which is more then enough space for a Guass Rifle and 3 tonnes of ammo.

You even have two tonnes left over for extra armour.

Alfred VonGunn, on 27 May 2012 - 02:32 AM, said:

I just hope they move away from teh TT bs and make it so Gauss RIfle ammo DOES NOT EXPLODE... There is no reason that is should since it has no gun powder and no other explosive in it.. A ammo hit to Gauss rifle should just destroy the feed and disable the gun.. nothing else...

Actually in TT Gaus rifle ammo doesn't explode.

The Guass Rifle capacitors explode when the weapon is damaged (30pts of damage from memory). So remember The Gauss and your XL Engines are not friends.

[Beazle]

Tadakuma, on 28 May 2012 - 08:00 PM, said:

I suspect that your best option for a fast mech with a Guass rifle will be the Centurion, if you can get the upgraded version with is (6/9) you can drop the LBX 10 and LRM - 10 with Artemis (this gives you 20 tonnes to spare) which is more then enough space for a Guass Rifle and 3 tonnes of ammo.

You even have two tonnes left over for extra armour.

I'm gonna work on a couple of assumptions here but:

IF XL engines are in the game at realease.....

and

IF the hardpoint system allows for it.....

Slap an XL into a Cicada, throw out all the weapons, drop the engine size down until speed matches a Jenner and you've got enough space for a Gauss and a few more tons for armor or extra armor..

Use that speed and range properly and i think you've got a decent sniper mech.

Personally i've always thought "snipers" were an overly romanticized concept with little true value on a battle field, but if i was going to build one, that would be it.

Edited by Beazle, 28 May 2012 - 10:34 PM.

[Lanc3rz3r0]

Alfred VonGunn, on 27 May 2012 - 03:08 AM, said:

WHich is first came out YEARS ago it was ammo.. didn;t know of teh change.. But that makes no sense either... WHy would teh Gauss RIfle overload and explode but Lasers and PPCs don't?

because the gauss rifle uses a magnetic field generator to propel shells, lasers use light. PPC's im not familiar enough (in a real world context) to explain. i can tell you from hands on experience that when you damage laser housing/lenses etc all that happens is it shuts off. gauss (read rail) guns on the other hand DO explode when you mess with them. I have made ones that could shoot steelies (steel beebees) through a bananna. if your timing is off, or the capacitors get bumped, then the whole thing goes 'pop' (read boom)

[Joseph Blak]

Would love to be able to get a Gauss Rifle on the Cataphract I am eying!!!!!!!

[Slepnir]

MMM gauss rifles, you do realise we are building them now-

BAE systems to be exact, about the right scale for a mech even-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uV1SbEuzFU


On the laser/PPC VS railgun debate.

Energy weapons draw power directly from the mechs reactor which is why they are big heat generators and also why they do not require a bank of capacitors along the entire barrel length of the weapon to accelerate the projectile to supersonic speeds the problem for the railgun and the reason it explodes is that power is constantly being stored in these capacitors along the length of the gun during combat(unless of course you turn it off) the feedback from direct damage to the capicitor releases that stored energy in a cascading effect hense the explosion.

hitting a laser projector housing by comparsion mess up the tube and throws off the focus reticle alighnment or causes damage to it preventing the laser from focusing to a narrow beam. there is no explosive material to set off.

[wanderer]

joseph a blak, on 29 May 2012 - 02:56 AM, said:

Would love to be able to get a Gauss Rifle on the Cataphract I am eying!!!!!!!

If it can fit an AC/10, with some tonnage tweaking it'll fit a Gauss Rifle. If they include the -1X and -2X variants, both will refit to a Gauss rifle in that ballistic hardpoint nicely, once you accomodate the extra weight. And the Davions take the Cataphract into their own production-model Caesar, which comes out of the factory armed with one in 3049- though it lacks the jump capacity.

The machine that people are going to twitch most about is the Atlas getting refitted with one of those things for it's AC/20. Barely reduces it's short-range punch and easily doubles it's long-range damage and then some for much less heat burden...