166 replies to this topic

[kalami]

As someone who plays premades often and PUG just the same, I have no idea how anyone can be so high and mighty when playing premades in the current system. I can't wait to run into you Hammer in my premade or pug.

[hammerreborn]

How am I acting high and mighty? Because I see no point in showing which people are in premades? Okay...I look forward to killing you with 6 flamers because I'm pretty sure you're a joke.

Every comment in this thread on the pro expose premade are making pro ELO comments. Showing the premades does nothing for the new player experience, does nothing about pug stomping, does nothing about the current matchmaker, and does nothing about making a new PUG only mode.

ELO may or may not fix all of those things.

If you're going to make an argument make a good one. No one has given any reason to why premades need to be indicated other than to be "marked". Which is a terrible reason to do anything.

Would you all approve people marked that are in trial mechs? That have less than a 1 KDR, less than a 50% win rate? I mean, comon, let's swing this the other way. If we're going to show the skilled team players, how about marking the complete piles of feces you get stuck with as well.

Bad players cause losses just as much as premades cause wins, why aren't we marking them? We can give them a little skull icon because they're dead all the time, get it!

Edited by hammerreborn, 06 February 2013 - 10:50 AM.

[Edward Mattlov]

I do not understand the problem with teams that form up before they drop. There are free TS servers available for every faction in the game as well as Lone Wolves and these servers do not require any sort of commitment from you. Also, there are dozens of private units you could join as well, so there is no excuse if you do not have a "pre-made" of your own. At the moment, MWO is a team game, so team up or lose more often. If a "Solaris" mode is added, then people will be able to 1 vs 1 to their heart's content.

[kalami]

hammerreborn, on 06 February 2013 - 10:43 AM, said:

How am I acting high and mighty? Because I see no point in showing which people are in premades? Okay...I look forward to killing you with 6 flamers because I'm pretty sure you're a joke.

Every comment in this thread on the pro expose premade are making pro ELO comments. Showing the premades does nothing for the new player experience, does nothing about pug stomping, does nothing about the current matchmaker, and does nothing about making a new PUG only mode.

ELO may or may not fix all of those things.

If you're going to make an argument make a good one. No one has given any reason to why premades need to be indicated other than to be "marked". Which is a terrible reason to do anything.

Would you all approve people marked that are in trial mechs? That have less than a 1 KDR, less than a 50% win rate? I mean, comon, let's swing this the other way. If we're going to show the skilled team players, how about indicated the complete piles of feces you get stuck with as well.

Bad players cause losses just as much as premades cause wins, why aren't we marking them? We can give them a little skull icon because they're dead all the time, get it!

Yep im a joke. In your case why show any players at all then. Just jump in the game and see mechs. I was having fun with the comment of fighting against you and you (i guess i should have expected it) reacted like a 12 year old.

And I'm just curious who im playing against; when I go up and stomp another team or get stomped It would be interesting to know they were premade or just a bunch of pugs. If we see that we have a 4 man premade and 4 pugs our strat may change; maybe the TS premades take one side and the pugs take another; maybe the premades form up the front...whatever the case may be...it would be an interesting addition.

Edited by kalami, 06 February 2013 - 10:53 AM.

[Alexandrix]

People have been calling for this since closed beta.It's a simple thing to implement (far as i know,having basically zero programming knowledge).If it were going to happen,it would have happened already.
The devs have made it plainly obvious the lone wolf/solo/pub player is meant to be filler and target practice for those in groups.
That's the sad truth.
Find people to run with,or be cannon fodder.
Your call.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Showing pre-mades will allow people to make informed analysis on the game. Right now we are all running around screaming our heads off about this that and the other thing regarding pre-mades.

Some people have tried to track it and make conclusions, but it's hard when you have to ask in chat to find out what is going on.

If they added group composition to any of the screens (before or after), someone could actually play 100 games and track things. Then we would actually be able to see where the issues are.

Unfortunately PGI does not seem to want to release this info to us.

[Thirdstar]

hammerreborn, on 06 February 2013 - 10:43 AM, said:

If we're going to show the skilled team players...............

How does marking premades do this?

Anyway, your usual trolling tendencies aside, marking premades as a premade would go a long way towards changing the perceptions of playerbase.

You won't change the minds of those who have already taken extremist positions. You never will. You will however swing the reasonable people.

[Dagger6T6]

I'm still noticing it seems like teams are heavily stacked with founders on one side and non founders on the other... not everytime... but a good portion of the time. I don't know if it is coincidence or part of how the matchmaking works, or could be that founders are more likely part of an organized group

i realize not everyone is displaying the founders tag as well, but it is interesting, and now you can see this fact at the beginning of the round

[Nicholas Carlyle]

This is all about information to me. The more that we have, the easier it is to work out what is important to the health of the game.

Lets take it from the pre-made perspective...if they make this change and we can all see pre-mades, and through analysis it turns out that pre-mades really aren't pug stomping as much as some people think, wouldn't that validate the arguements a lot of pro-pre-made posters have been making?

I just want to know what is going on.

[kalami]

Dagger6T6, on 06 February 2013 - 10:54 AM, said:

I'm still noticing it seems like teams are heavily stacked with founders on one side and non founders on the other... not everytime... but a good portion of the time. I don't know if it is coincidence or part of how the matchmaking works, or could be that founders are more likely part of an organized group

i realize not everyone is displaying the founders tag as well, but it is interesting, and now you can see this fact at the beginning of the round

Probably the fact that founders have played this game a lot longer than most. You can't even get founders anymore; so it's a guarantee that they have played at least several months meaning their skillset is likely higher.

[Chavette]

No.

[Thirdstar]

Chavette, on 06 February 2013 - 10:58 AM, said:

No.

Yes.

[krash27]

hammerreborn, on 06 February 2013 - 10:43 AM, said:

How am I acting high and mighty? Because I see no point in showing which people are in premades? Okay...I look forward to killing you with 6 flamers because I'm pretty sure you're a joke.

Every comment in this thread on the pro expose premade are making pro ELO comments. Showing the premades does nothing for the new player experience, does nothing about pug stomping, does nothing about the current matchmaker, and does nothing about making a new PUG only mode.

ELO may or may not fix all of those things.

If you're going to make an argument make a good one. No one has given any reason to why premades need to be indicated other than to be "marked". Which is a terrible reason to do anything.

Would you all approve people marked that are in trial mechs? That have less than a 1 KDR, less than a 50% win rate? I mean, comon, let's swing this the other way. If we're going to show the skilled team players, how about marking the complete piles of feces you get stuck with as well.

Bad players cause losses just as much as premades cause wins, why aren't we marking them? We can give them a little skull icon because they're dead all the time, get it!

What do premades have to hide that makes this an issue? I just can't see the problem with knowing when the teams have premades or not. Very confusing!

[hammerreborn]

Thirdstar, on 06 February 2013 - 10:53 AM, said:

How does marking premades do this?

Anyway, your usual trolling tendencies aside, marking premades as a premade would go a long way towards changing the perceptions of playerbase.

You won't change the minds of those who have already taken extremist positions. You never will. You will however swing the reasonable people.

How? Devs sayin the playerbase is growing hasn't changed the people saying it's dying. Saying ECM is less prevelant (AND PROVIDING NUMBERS) has not stopped the anti-ecm crowd AT ALL. Do you honestly think that showing a team had a premade is going to change any of the perceptions?

The reasonable people are the ones who KNOW the premades are more likely to win and KNOW they aren't in every game. They don't need a marker telling them what they already know.

Marking every bad player with a <1 KDR or in a trial mech is just as useful as marking every team in terms of why team A beat team B.

I mean, if it's about perceptions. I want to see how many absolutely awful people are in the game. And then I want to compare them to this thread.

Edited by hammerreborn, 06 February 2013 - 11:05 AM.

[Dagger6T6]

kalami, on 06 February 2013 - 10:56 AM, said:

Probably the fact that founders have played this game a lot longer than most. You can't even get founders anymore; so it's a guarantee that they have played at least several months meaning their skillset is likely higher.

I agree, no doubt founders are at least probably more versed in the Battletech universe and more familiar with the game itself. But as far as I know the matchmaker is not creating matches based on skill as of yet... so matchmaking is based on mech tonnage and I suppose whether there are 4man teams available. So maybe this explains why more founders are on one team than another... but it's still curious... I know i have seen a number of drops where there were no founders whatsoever on one side and 5-6 on the other.

[Vlad Ward]

Dagger6T6, on 06 February 2013 - 11:04 AM, said:

I know i have seen a number of drops where there were no founders whatsoever on one side and 5-6 on the other.

Welcome to true randomness.

[hammerreborn]

Dagger6T6, on 06 February 2013 - 11:04 AM, said:

I agree, no doubt founders are at least probably more versed in the Battletech universe and more familiar with the game itself. But as far as I know the matchmaker is not creating matches based on skill as of yet... so matchmaking is based on mech tonnage and I suppose whether there are 4man teams available. So maybe this explains why more founders are on one team than another... but it's still curious... I know i have seen a number of drops where there were no founders whatsoever on one side and 5-6 on the other.

Theres a lot of teams with founders because theres a TON of founders (somewhere around 25k IIRC?). You're going to see a lot of them just for the simple fact that they are probably still at least 10-15% of the playerbase.

[Dagger6T6]

Vlad Ward, on 06 February 2013 - 11:06 AM, said:

Welcome to true randomness.

[Bguk]

Thirdstar, on 06 February 2013 - 10:53 AM, said:

Anyway, your usual trolling tendencies aside, marking premades as a premade would go a long way towards changing the perceptions of playerbase.

You won't change the minds of those who have already taken extremist positions. You never will. You will however swing the reasonable people.

Just because you disagree with someone does not equate to a troll.

I agree with the extremists because if they weren't, that word would have never been created.

hammerreborn, on 06 February 2013 - 10:43 AM, said:

Every comment in this thread on the pro expose premade are making pro ELO comments. Showing the premades does nothing for the new player experience, does nothing about pug stomping, does nothing about the current matchmaker, and does nothing about making a new PUG only mode.

ELO may or may not fix all of those things.

If you're going to make an argument make a good one. No one has given any reason to why premades need to be indicated other than to be "marked". Which is a terrible reason to do anything.

Would you all approve people marked that are in trial mechs? That have less than a 1 KDR, less than a 50% win rate? I mean, comon, let's swing this the other way. If we're going to show the skilled team players, how about marking the complete piles of feces you get stuck with as well.

Bad players cause losses just as much as premades cause wins, why aren't we marking them? We can give them a little skull icon because they're dead all the time, get it!

I agree with everything you stated. Only reason to have it is to show the whiners, on either side, what the real deal. We have factual data(screenshots) that attest to one side or the other. I just want to there to stop the majority of the debate basically. We have information then to stop the uninformed.

Although you may be right as Garth(?) posted the pre/pug issue is not that bad, and people just didn't believe him. But it's not real numbers so I can see it(and still disagree).

[kalami]

Cross reference away; I never claimed to be a superstar.

https://dl.dropbox.c...kalamistats.gif