233 replies to this topic

[Mr Mantis]

I also agree with how strangely streaks behave, and that they should not be able to shoot in the way that they do.

First thought would be to add a possible ark of fire, if the enemy is not in your arc than the streaks would not follow the lock. obviously the torso and arms have their own arcs and fire independently.

Second and less nerfing idea would be to add a turn radius to streaks, that they would fire straight out of their tubes for a few meters then fly towards the lock.
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um, something like that i guess, it was supposed to show the missile flying around the mech but after posted the formatting changes

Edited by Mr Mantis, 07 February 2013 - 02:01 AM.

[Gaan Cathal]

One Medic Army, on 07 February 2013 - 01:24 AM, said:

Can't quite fit that. Currently my F is 4xML 2xSL 5xJJ (Jumps are my one major advantage in light vs light), with a 300xl.
6 Mediums runs too hot.
My Jenner D with the 2s SRM4s is actually the best at fighting ravens, since one pt blank blast with the SRMs is typically enough to drive them off or kill them. With the jumps to do quick turns behind cover I can usually get them to joust rather than circle, and in jousting the mech with the higher burst damage wins.

Fair enough, heat management is always one of those personal preference things, and I can see how your D would win a joust with a streak-3L, like I said I fit mine without streaks so my experiences against Ds probably aren't the usual.

One Medic Army, on 07 February 2013 - 01:30 AM, said:

So your experience in light mechs is based entirely on the only one run in competitive format, and the one that dominates all light vs light matchups.
You have no perspective about playing non EZ-mode light mechs.
Lagshield is gone, lights that get shot die. (more true with projectiles than lasers really though).
Raven still beats other light mechs due to not needing to aim at all when using streaks.

In fairness he is right that collision mechanics need updating, though I don't know why fixing streaks precludes this.

And, sligt pet peeve of mine here, it's hardly just the 3L that can run SSRM, or indeed the ECM-SSRM combo.

[Larkis]

That sounds good.

[Zylo]

Larkis, on 07 February 2013 - 01:57 AM, said:

Ah thats the point. Your crying that the jenner was op (and indeed it was a long time, dont making fun playing a Jennr cause its to easy) and know you using Op Mechs to stomp your old enemy and are afraid that you get your payback.

I know balance will always change which is why I play mechs in all weight classes. I use the most effective mech for the role I am trying to fill on the team. I played a streak cat A1 the last 2 days before ECM just to get the A1 from 0 XP to full master. At that time it was the most effective light killer.

ECM was introduced and the Raven 3L I had been preparing was now the most effective light killer.

The reason I played light killer mechs was to allow the other members of my group to play the mechs they wanted to play while I would deal with the enemy light mechs. I felt it was a bad idea in 4-man drops to leave the enemy lights to random players on the team who might not even understand lag shooting.

It was all about efficiency... and maybe part of it was just me picking on the mech that had been OP for too long (btw I also picked on streak cats often in my Raven 3L).

Edited by Zylo, 07 February 2013 - 02:10 AM.

[Larkis]

Gaan Cathal, on 07 February 2013 - 02:03 AM, said:

In fairness he is right that collision mechanics need updating, though I don't know why fixing streaks precludes this.

Nobody says that collisions should not be fixing.

But Collision is just another tactic, actual the system works goo in my eyes, lagshield reduced, heavy mechs are hidding and i cant run between the enemy group like in closed beta. if i try im dying. So we dont NEED Collisions actual. its woudl be very nice to get in back but actual there is no need for it.

But the SSRm2 actual destroy the complede Light-Gameplay.

Gaan Cathal, on 07 February 2013 - 02:03 AM, said:

And, sligt pet peeve of mine here, it's hardly just the 3L that can run SSRM, or indeed the ECM-SSRM combo.

And the ECm-SSRm2 Commando. Actual mostly the only Lights ingame.

Zylo, on 07 February 2013 - 02:08 AM, said:

I know balance will always change which is why I play mechs in all weight classes. I use the most effective mech for the role I am trying to fill on the team. I played a streak cat A1 the last 2 days before ECM just to get the A1 from 0 XP to full master. At that time it was the most effective light killer.

i dont argue with such a person sorry.

[Zylo]

Larkis, on 07 February 2013 - 02:10 AM, said:

Nobody says that collisions should not be fixing.

But Collision is just another tactic, actual the system works goo in my eyes, lagshield reduced, heavy mechs are hidding and i cant run between the enemy group like in closed beta. if i try im dying. So we dont NEED Collisions actual. its woudl be very nice to get in back but actual there is no need for it.

But the SSRm2 actual destroy the complede Light-Gameplay.

And the ECm-SSRm2 Commando. Actual mostly the only Lights ingame.

i dont argue with such a person sorry.

I see how it is, you only want the fixes that help your choice of mech. I guess you fit right in with the typical whiners on these forums.

[Ghogiel]

Larkis, on 07 February 2013 - 02:10 AM, said:

i dont argue with such a person sorry.

I ran my 3L the 3 days after the spider was released just to be mean.

[DogmeatX]

Streaks shouldn't fly out of the launcher at virtually 90 degree angles (or more??)

Why not have it so they fire forwards from the launcher and then have a turning circle? This should make it less effective vs fast turning/circling lights (so Jenners and non ECM/Streak lights get a chance)

It would also have the side effect that bigger mechs with streaks could be countered by closing in fast and tight/fast circling as well.

So: beyond a certain range the streaks will go straight for the target but at very near/point blank ranges they need to do a turn first which could make the difference to an attacker having a chance or not.

I know in tabletop or whatever they're supposed to be 100% hit but for PC gameplay purposes this ought to be relaxed a bit.

I got to master in Jenners right before the ECM came and never bothered to rebuy the Jenner I wanted, because it just felt like suicide vs ECM/streak users - and since then have got a 3L too which makes me even less interested in getting a Jenner again (though I'd like to, if something is done about streaks and ECM combo at least)

I just see no reason why if a light chassis has an ECM variant you'd want to take the other variants over that one, especially when streaks are involved.

Edited by DogmeatX, 07 February 2013 - 02:18 AM.

[Lykaon]

Zylo, on 07 February 2013 - 01:00 AM, said:

Simple, you want as much burst damage as possible. SRM4 or SRM6 would fill this role better for burst damage against a tackled light mech.

Like it or not, having a friendly light tackle an enemy light was probably the fastest way to kill them as the entire team had a way of seeing that light mech fall down... at that point EVERYONE wanted the kill.

Except...

Someday we will see clan weapons in this game and with this injection of clan tech we get Streak 4 and 6 racks.
If you somehow think players will not be building mechs with as many streak6 racks as humanly possible you will of course be wrong.

It will not be because they want to shoot at downed light mechs.It will be because the streaks are the ultimate short ranged weapon system only held in check currently by ECM and their small volley sizes.

I will tell you honestly if I can mount them on a Raven 3L I will most certainly replace my 2 SSRM2s with a pair of SSRM6s!
Trippling my lazy mans lag compensating torso seeking missiles of doom!

Mark my words if streaks are not reballanced before the larger streak missile racks are available we will be seeing SSRM6 boats everywhere.The meta game will be built around ECM and streak 6 launchers and little else will be capable of competing against this.

[Misfit73]

Ghogiel, on 07 February 2013 - 02:13 AM, said:

I ran my 3L the 3 days after the spider was released just to be mean.

Whenever i have to choose between a Jenner and another target the Jenner becomes the primary target (and stays like that wherever its going) for my SSRM2s.
After they die i imagine them opening a thread, i really do.

Edited by Misfit73, 07 February 2013 - 02:23 AM.

[Zylo]

Lykaon, on 07 February 2013 - 02:18 AM, said:

Except...

Someday we will see clan weapons in this game and with this injection of clan tech we get Streak 4 and 6 racks.
If you somehow think players will not be building mechs with as many streak6 racks as humanly possible you will of course be wrong.

It will not be because they want to shoot at downed light mechs.It will be because the streaks are the ultimate short ranged weapon system only held in check currently by ECM and their small volley sizes.

I will tell you honestly if I can mount them on a Raven 3L I will most certainly replace my 2 SSRM2s with a pair of SSRM6s!
Trippling my lazy mans lag compensating torso seeking missiles of doom!

Mark my words if streaks are not reballanced before the larger streak missile racks are available we will be seeing SSRM6 boats everywhere.The meta game will be built around ECM and streak 6 launchers and little else will be capable of competing against this.

I know players will be making mechs with SSRM4's and 6's but I have a feeling clan weapons won't work on IS mechs, at least at the start. Clan lights with these weapons could be an issue of course.

I'm not against balancing streaks, I'm just saying collisions need to be returned first as the lack of collision knockdowns is currently a more serious game balance issue.

Returning collision knockdowns will also help deal with those teammates that seem to constantly crash into other friendly mechs. When they end up face down after crashing into a friendly Atlas maybe they will finally learn to not pack together so close.

Edited by Zylo, 07 February 2013 - 02:24 AM.

[Larkis]

DogmeatX, on 07 February 2013 - 02:16 AM, said:

I just see no reason why if a light chassis has an ECM variant you'd want to take the other variants over that one, especially when streaks are involved.

For the Gameplay they shopuld be a difference. A ECm Mech to protect himself and other mechs but with less weaponry, or a Fighter mech mit a Lot of Weapons but no ECM. But thsi is another matter.

Actual its the combinatio of light anf fast, brain-AFk Autoaimweapons and intigrate Counter for all other brainafk-no-Aim-Weapons. if there woudl be a way to fight against this mechs, they dont want use a DEFENSIVE System offensive.

[Blark]

Streaks+ecm=easy win in regards to lights (and most mediums).
And the new modules made things even worse Imo.

I like where the op is going: nerfing the streaks by altering their flight path to be more realistic; that way, even if streaks still always find their target they would have a significantly longer flight time on many occasions, giving AMS a chance to shoot them down.

ps:
If things were up to me:
- reintroduction of knockdowns
- fixed the remaining problems with lag-shield (It got a lot better lately as we all know)
- removal of streaks

That would make me a happy light pilot

Edited by Blark, 07 February 2013 - 02:27 AM.

[Hexcaliber]

Light pilots whining about the only really viable counter, whatever next. Lights are already the easiest mech to stay alive in and you want to improve that further, ****. Streaks are not a guaranteed hit against lights, they can, and will miss.

Once knockdowns are re introduced, streaks could possibly do with a slight reduction in their turn radius, but the fact these things cannot be aimed accurately at specific locations is a balancing factor, their damage is spread all over the shop.

No mech should be able to prance around the field invulnerable to every weapon; lights are no less viable for the presence of streaks, they are still perfectly viable and capable of killing every mech weight class, including assault.

They are the smallest fastest and hardest to hit mech class in the game, and the only class to gain an advantage from the presence of lag and you would have a viable counter removed. Seems to me what you really want is a fat red "iwin" button in the cockpit.

Edited by Hexcaliber, 07 February 2013 - 02:36 AM.

[Solis Obscuri]

I still find it bizarre that people are convinced Jenners are somehow invincible and unbeatable without broken mechanics via ECM and Streaks. Gotta get off crutch mode, kiddie...

[Larkis]

Hexcaliber, on 07 February 2013 - 02:28 AM, said:

Light pilots whining about the only really viable counter, whatever next. Lights are already the easiest mech to stay alive in and you want to improve that further, ****. Oh and for what its worth, streaks are not a guaranteed hit against lights, they can, and will miss.

That was before the lagshiedl woudl fixed. I can say piloting a jennr is not so easy like in the closed beta. I often got shut down by heavys and Assaults who stay together. Indeed a lonely Atlas is still an easy kill for a light buts thats the role lights are supposed to be. But i cant run into a group of mechs and surround them without getting damage.

[Zylo]

Solis Obscuri, on 07 February 2013 - 02:31 AM, said:

I still find it bizarre that people are convinced Jenners are somehow invincible and unbeatable without broken mechanics via ECM and Streaks. Gotta get off crutch mode, kiddie...

In the case of some players outside NA streaks might be the only viable way to kill lights due to connection quality.

I usually kill lights with SRM6's or sometimes the AC/20. The commando makes the best explosion but the Jenner is the most fun to kill.

[Hexcaliber]

Larkis, on 07 February 2013 - 02:36 AM, said:

That was before the lagshiedl woudl fixed. I can say piloting a jennr is not so easy like in the closed beta. I often got shut down by heavys and Assaults who stay together. Indeed a lonely Atlas is still an easy kill for a light buts thats the role lights are supposed to be. But i cant run into a group of mechs and surround them without getting damage.

Any mech regardless of its class will be shut down by a group working together, that's the benefit of team work.

The role of lights is to act as scouts, to probe for weakness in the enemies lines, and to hit and run pulling cover around the map, not as a counter to assault.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

I gotta say, watching light pilots ***** and moan about SSRM's is comical. I slay lights all the time in my 4 LPL 9M. I just shoot the legs, and once the legs are gone (usually in a single volley) I move on to the next mech and left the vultures descend on the gimped light.

People keep whining about the streaks, but don't realize that all the missiles in this game are broken. SRMs/SSRMs are at 2.5 damage per missle, when they should be at just 2. And LRMs are 1.7 damage per missile when they should be at just 1.

And people keep bringing up the clan SSRM4s and SSRM6s. You all fail to realize the Clan LRM 20's that are going to do 38 points of damage WON'T HAVE A MINIMUM RANGE. Which means they won't even need streaks, or any other weapon really. They'll have an EZMOAD button ranging from 0-1000m with their LRM 20's doing 38 points of damage.


All the streak/light/ECM QQ threads really boil down to the broke-*** missiles in this game.

[Larkis]

Hexcaliber, on 07 February 2013 - 02:41 AM, said:

The role of lights is to act as scouts, to probe for weakness in the enemies lines, and to hit and run pulling cover around the map, not as a counter to assault.

i still do this, hide behind the Atlas and run when he is turning aorund, than moving around some cover, came out and fire on the atlas again.