133 replies to this topic

[Vlad Ward]

haruko, on 12 February 2013 - 12:17 PM, said:

Everyone keeps going off about "B-BUT MUH EXTRA LASERS" while conveniently forgetting that if you use them in tandem with the SRM's you'll overheat after 2 volleys and lose your ridiculously easy to hit RT/LT.

The SRMs on a good STK-3F are Heat Negative, so you can safely fire your lasers every couple of volleys even if you spam your SRMs on cooldown (which doesn't happen, since everything dies in 2-3 hits or less, so really you can use them more often).

Edited by Vlad Ward, 12 February 2013 - 12:19 PM.

[Franchi]

Vlad Ward, on 12 February 2013 - 12:16 PM, said:

You would need 37 SHS to have (barely) more heat dissipation than my 4SRM6 6ML 300STD STK-3F. Endo saves you 4.25 tons on an 85 ton Assault. Where are the other 11.75 tons coming from?



See Above. If you're getting behind Assaults in a Medium/Heavy, you're facing bad Assaults.

So 90% of assault pilots are terrible? I don't have to get there and stay there (I can most times) I just have to get there fire a shot then get back there and fire another shot at some future time, it only takes two shots to the rear from close range to drop just about anything in a 6 pack.

[DrxAbstract]

Vlad Ward, on 12 February 2013 - 12:16 PM, said:

You would need 37 SHS to have (barely) more heat dissipation than my 4SRM6 6ML 300STD STK-3F. Endo saves you 4.25 tons on an 85 ton Assault. Where are the other 11.75 tons coming from?

That's just it, i cant recall... dont have one sitting in my mechbay anymore to tinker. perhaps it was an XL and not Endo, in which case it becomes irrelevant.

[Vlad Ward]

Franchi, on 12 February 2013 - 12:24 PM, said:

So 90% of pilots are terrible?

Yes.

[Viper69]

I am terrible, but I have fun being terrible. I run Endo steel on my stalker 5S.

[DEN_Ninja]

Wait until collision comes back. I will use my fast mechs to sweep the legs of the A1 and let it fire missiles into the ground and blow itself up.

I can't do that to a stalker tho.

[Mazgazine1]

Wow a lot of Splatapult pilots claiming they are super badass.. Dude, with in second of meeting a stalker you are already missing half your srms......

Stalkers don't have giant targets for ears.

I can also hold 2 (ER)PPCs at the same time, or 5 MLs..

Got my best scores and I consistently top 3 in damage with my stalker.

[Rigmoran]

Franchi, on 12 February 2013 - 12:24 PM, said:

So 90% of assault pilots are terrible?

Vlad Ward, on 12 February 2013 - 12:28 PM, said:

Yes.

Maybe more.

Sadly, there really is only one way to test this and we don't have the ability to set up controlled 1 v 1's.

Although, I have to agree that keeping people off your backside in an assault is not usually all that hard. Skill makes up for a lot of shortcomings in a niche mech design.

Also, comparing your results against PUG's is not really a good idea. PUG's are like a box of chocolates. You never know what you're gonna get.

Edited by Rigmoran, 12 February 2013 - 01:02 PM.

[Franchi]

Rigmoran, on 12 February 2013 - 12:59 PM, said:

Maybe more.

Sadly, there really is only one way to test this and we don't have the ability to set up controlled 1 v 1's.

Although, I have to agree that keeping people off your backside in an assault is not usually all that hard. Skill makes up for a lot of shortcomings in a niche mech design.

Also, comparing your results against PUG's is not really a good idea. PUG's are like a box of chocolates. You never know what you're gonna get.

Before I took a short break I played 8 mans on a regular basis, I found it relatively easy to get an assault mechs back for long enough to kill it in a 6 pack, in my centurion it was a complete joke, and that was against primarily atlases, against a stalker its even easier to stay out of the firing cone.

I would love to do some 1v1's with some SRM stalkers as described in the OP. My pitiful 4.21 KDR needs a boost.

Edited by Franchi, 12 February 2013 - 01:07 PM.

[Vlad Ward]

Tell me more about how you walk into 8-mans with a Centurion and stomp Atlases with ease. This is something I would genuinely like to hear more about.

Edited by Vlad Ward, 12 February 2013 - 01:10 PM.

[Serapth]

Mazgazine1, on 12 February 2013 - 12:55 PM, said:

Wow a lot of Splatapult pilots claiming they are super badass.. Dude, with in second of meeting a stalker you are already missing half your srms......

Stalkers don't have giant targets for ears.

I can also hold 2 (ER)PPCs at the same time, or 5 MLs..

Got my best scores and I consistently top 3 in damage with my stalker.

Thats the thing with my Stalker SRM6 boat... I'm not sure if its a boat anymore...

With the Splatcat ( I recently just tried it out ), its a one trick pony. It's much quicker, and the torso twist borders on broken, but after you've blown your load, you are a sitting duck. On top, you need to close to 150m or less to be effective.

My Stalker though, on top of 5 SRM6s and tons of ammo, can also pack 3xLL, making him effective while closing, or inbetween cycling. That said, if you have 3xLL, pretty much the full armament of a medium mech, as backup, are you still an SRM boat?

[ownka]

While I feel this thread has a lot of trolls and jerks, especially on the side I'm about to argue, I've gotta say, the stalker srmboat is only good at killing bad mechs. I play mainly scouts and fast mediums (yen lo max speed and CN9-D max speed), with a snipey atlas and a LL/AC10 cataphract every once and a while, and I've gotta say I've never lost a fight with a SRM stalker that I'm aware of.

Just the other night I ran into one in my CN-9-D, and the silly thing didn't get me in its sights till I was already backpedaling at about 200m away. It started chasing, so once I got to a safe-ish distance I just turned around, slammed my mech in full reverse, and had a fun time coring him with my gauss and LL while I ran backwards as fast as he could run forward.

There is no reason to pilot a mech that doesn't A. move fast enough or B. have the range to easily deal with these sort of stalkers, unless you're running an ECM brawler atlas, and even then the atlas can run comparable overall damage with more focused fire from autocannon(s), and has more armor to start with. On top of that, the atlas brings ECM to the table, whereas the stalker brings...well...missiles. This build of stalker is really good at smashing bad players, but the second a good player sees what you're running they will generally be able to either evade your shots or shoot you long before you can shoot them.

The LL's might make it better, but with 5 SRM6's and 3 LL's I've gotta say either your heat is crap or you're using the tiniest engine on earth, probably both. Maybe not much ammo. Dunno.

Edited by ownka, 12 February 2013 - 01:13 PM.

[Serapth]

ownka, on 12 February 2013 - 01:11 PM, said:

The LL's might make it better, but with 5 SRM6's and 3 LL's I've gotta say either your heat is crap or you're using the tiniest engine on earth, probably both. Maybe not much ammo. Dunno.

Frankly, you just described a really awful pilot, you see that in almost any build.

As to the 3xLL build and heat, its not really a big deal, you just generally stop firing the LL when you are using the SRM's. You already need a hefty amount of heat management to boat SRMs in the first place... you just switch between the two... use the LLs at 400+m, cool off while closing to 150m, then use the SRMs.

You cant alpha the 3xLLs in with the SRMs, at least, not often. But its all about flexability. In the 3xLL build, you know the situation your were just talking about, where you ran away to outside the SRM range and turned and nuked... in that case, I would have been coring your back with my lasers. That is the flexibility it gives.

[Ngamok]

Serapth, on 12 February 2013 - 01:10 PM, said:

Thats the thing with my Stalker SRM6 boat... I'm not sure if its a boat anymore...

With the Splatcat ( I recently just tried it out ), its a one trick pony. It's much quicker, and the torso twist borders on broken, but after you've blown your load, you are a sitting duck. On top, you need to close to 150m or less to be effective.

My Stalker though, on top of 5 SRM6s and tons of ammo, can also pack 3xLL, making him effective while closing, or inbetween cycling. That said, if you have 3xLL, pretty much the full armament of a medium mech, as backup, are you still an SRM boat?

So you are using the 5M which has a much smaller torso twist than the 3F. Easier to get behind you out of your arc.

[Serapth]

Ngamok, on 12 February 2013 - 01:19 PM, said:

So you are using the 5M which has a much smaller torso twist than the 3F. Easier to get behind you out of your arc.

Yes, every mech has it's downsides, that is the Stalkers. You play accordingly and positionally aware. In other words, park your arse in some rocks if possible. That's a big part of piloting a Stalker ( more so than even an Atlas ), positional awareness. You get caught out in the open by a well driven Light pilot, you are toast.

Fortunately most Lights aren't really ridden by all that great of pilots, so you can generally just wait for them to do their next circle pass and nuke them to hell in an SRM cloud.


Now if you want to argue the Catapult torso twist is better, and probably OP, I agree with you completely.

Edited by Serapth, 12 February 2013 - 01:22 PM.

[ownka]

Serapth, on 12 February 2013 - 01:17 PM, said:

Frankly, you just described a really awful pilot, you see that in almost any build.

As to the 3xLL build and heat, its not really a big deal, you just generally stop firing the LL when you are using the SRM's. You already need a hefty amount of heat management to boat SRMs in the first place... you just switch between the two... use the LLs at 400+m, cool off while closing to 150m, then use the SRMs.

You cant alpha the 3xLLs in with the SRMs, at least, not often. But its all about flexability. In the 3xLL build, you know the situation your were just talking about, where you ran away to outside the SRM range and turned and nuked... in that case, I would have been coring your back with my lasers. That is the flexibility it gives.

Even then, a good stalker pilot's option would have been to sluggishly turn away and crawl towards cover as I let his rear know how I feel about him. He would have gotten a little splash damage on me, then have to waste time retreating aimlessly. The best he could hope for on any mech capable of moving at reasonable speeds by a reasonable pilot is one good alpha, maybe 2. I've been demolished by plenty of good A1,s but I can't even remember the last time I died to a brawling stalker. It is like comparing a snake to a snapping turtle. Yes they both do bite, but anyone that gets bitten by the turtle is either dumb or unlucky. That's all I'm saying.

Edited by ownka, 12 February 2013 - 01:26 PM.

[Vlad Ward]

ownka, on 12 February 2013 - 01:23 PM, said:

Even then, a good stalker pilot's option would have been to sluggishly turn away and crawl towards cover as I let his rear know how I feel about him. He would have gotten a little splash damage on me, then have to waste time retreating aimlessly. The best he could hope for on any mech capable of moving at reasonable speeds by a reasonable pilot is one good alpha, maybe 2. I've been demolished by plenty of good A1,s but I can't even remember the last time I died to a brawling stalker. That's all I'm saying.

Anything that isn't the 3F is crap for short range fighting in a Stalker. That said, you need a lot more than 110kph to outmaneuver a decent Assault. Even a max speed Light requires an extremely skilled pilot to stay out of an Assault's LOS ~100%.

Your personal experiences don't really mean much in the grand scheme of things. As already mentioned, many pilots are awful and their shortcomings cannot be attributed to their Mech.

[QuantumButler]

Franchi, on 12 February 2013 - 12:24 PM, said:

So 90% of assault pilots are terrible? I don't have to get there and stay there (I can most times) I just have to get there fire a shot then get back there and fire another shot at some future time, it only takes two shots to the rear from close range to drop just about anything in a 6 pack.

Sturgeon's law mate, 90% of everything, MWO players included, is terrible.

[ownka]

Vlad Ward, on 12 February 2013 - 01:27 PM, said:

Anything that isn't the 3F is crap for short range fighting in a Stalker. That said, you need a lot more than 110kph to outmaneuver a decent Assault. Even a max speed Light requires an extremely skilled pilot to stay out of an Assault's LOS ~100%.

Your personal experiences don't really mean much in the grand scheme of things. As already mentioned, many pilots are awful and their shortcomings cannot be attributed to their Mech.

Even 80KPH is enough to stay away from a stalker. The same thing that makes these sort of mechs so good saves you from them. The stalker can only hit a 80-90 KPH mech till it gets to the next cover, which as I said is maybe 2 alpha strikes. 2 alphas from a stalker is a lot of damage, but definitely survivable due to lack of focus from the srm's. Once you know where it is, there is no good reason to ever take another hit from those SRM's. The A1 can chase you around the building, rip your back off, and beat you with it.

[nksharp]

Probably the easiest mech to play right now is a 3f, to bad you still lose if your on a bad team