139 replies to this topic

[Kylere]

This is like asking how much damage should a medic do before it is worth including one with an Army unit.

A great scout can do zero damage and be the only reason someone lives. I am in the top three 90% of the time (winning or losing), but I have never won by myself. Only a jerk thinks damage total is the only value.

[Flapdrol]

If the game turns into a big brawl and the enemy focus fires on you, you block with your arms so the enemy has to strip all armor before destroying you you'll have been a credit to the team even though you did barely any damage.

[Zero Neutral]

No way. A scout had better be doing damage or all he is doing is sight seeing. Once the enemy team is found the light should be rejoining the main group or capping. I understand that if Albright mech is capping then their damage will be lower, but scouting is no excuse for low damage output.

[Broceratops]

they should do enough damage to kill their opposite mech on the other team. otherwise someone else on the team is forced to pick up the slack.


this is a basic way of looking at things but a lot of games are lost because a non-ecm light dies and then the ECM raven on the other side runs amok, or a lrm atlas dies and then the DDC runs amok.

Edited by Broceratops, 14 February 2013 - 06:50 AM.

[Hobo Dan]

In one game last week on Frozen City, both teams were flirting with one another on the ridge. I made the decision to pull around to the lower end of the dropship in my YLW and try to sneak into that city area around D6. I made it unnoticed and proceeded to get behind the enemy line. There I ran in and started popping AC/20 rounds into their backs. I got off three shots before their whole team turned around and wrecked me. However, my team took advantage of my distraction to roll over the ridge and wipe the floor with them while they were chasing me. We won 8-1.

I did crap damage and got a crap score, but I feel I played an important part in the win.

I mean, you play to win the game right?

Edited by Hobo Dan, 14 February 2013 - 06:41 AM.

[Kylere]

Zero Neutral, on 14 February 2013 - 06:36 AM, said:

No way. A scout had better be doing damage or all he is doing is sight seeing. Once the enemy team is found the light should be rejoining the main group or capping. I understand that if Albright mech is capping then their damage will be lower, but scouting is no excuse for low damage output.

Sorry, but my scout buddy let me do 1600 damage and he did about 50. Some ***** looking at his numbers would think he sucked and I was god-like, The truth is that we just played.

[Wispsy]

Broceratops, on 14 February 2013 - 06:38 AM, said:

they should do enough damage to kill their opposite mech on the other team. otherwise someone else on the team is forced to pick up the slack.

TBH if all the Atlas on my team manages to accomplish is kill the enemy Raven 3L then in my eyes they have done more good then any other Atlas who walks off kills one assault and damages another!

[Viper69]

I think its not a damage issue. The person could have been the distraction you needed to get that flank rolling. Why does it always have to be about damage output?

For example:
Last night on river city my team was on the low side. We went water to alcatraz when I spotted mechs crossing the bridge. Our drop commander sent me in my stalker and our hunchback back to our base to fight a delaying action. Their whole force went upper city and with the intel our commander made a call to cap while the two of us repelled them. The hunchback got to our base first in time to see an awesome loaded with all medium pulse lasers. He took a shot and ducked back while I stepped around to face the assault mech head on. While we slugged it out he flanked the faster assault and pummeled his rear. While this happened our team started capping and the enemy was too far into their push to make an attempt to retake their base. We won without losing a mech and they lost only 3.

My point is our drop commander and the other. 4 pugs didnt get stellar damage but we won and the pugs flollowed our lead and scored a win. Now going by the damage=usefulness theory half my team was useless. That is why i hate pigeon holing people into categories based on one criteria.

[Kousagi]

Viper69, on 14 February 2013 - 06:46 AM, said:

My point is our drop commander and the other. 4 pugs didnt get stellar damage but we won and the pugs flollowed our lead and scored a win. Now going by the damage=usefulness theory half my team was useless. That is why i hate pigeon holing people into categories based on one criteria.

Not sure you can really count that match as a win. Sure you cap'ed the point and got a pretty end of match screen that said victory, but you got a very tiny amount of Cbills and XP... I would call that match a loss for everyone.

[Escef]

Damage is a false indicator. An ECM light with TAG will generally do a lot less damage than the missile boats he's spotting for, but does that mean he contributed less? Does the guy who spent more time in chat coordinating than shooting deserve less credit when it was his tactics that won the drop?

[Scrawny Cowboy]

Kousagi, on 14 February 2013 - 06:53 AM, said:

Not sure you can really count that match as a win. Sure you cap'ed the point and got a pretty end of match screen that said victory, but you got a very tiny amount of Cbills and XP... I would call that match a loss for everyone.

Still meeting one of the two win conditions.

[Chavette]

None you fool.

If you knew anything about the game, a light/med that distracts the enemy for long enough to have the big guys kill them, is worth its weight in gold.

[Onmyoudo]

To be a credit to the team you need to be useful. You can always tell in a match who is being useful and who is not. I voted 200, because it is rare to be useful and not do at least some damage - exceptions for scout lights and people who get unlucky and insta-cored. S**t happens, sometimes.

For example, the Awesome running in a straight line at the entire enemy team is not useful, even if he kills someone when his XL explodes on their face.

The Raven playing chicken in the enemy backfield allowing the rest of your team to push forward and start tearing backs is useful even if they blow up after firing their lasers once.

[Kousagi]

B3RZ3RK3R, on 14 February 2013 - 06:56 AM, said:

Still meeting one of the two win conditions.

Totally is, but who cares about pretty words? Cbills and XP are worth far far far more then a victory screen and when you can make more Cbills and XP in a well fought loss then a no fight win, then the no fight win is a loss. As a win without a fight, you make like 25k cbills, a well fought loss, 100k or so cbills... I'll take the fight.

Also back on topic. For people saying that damage is not a factor, you be crazy. Damage is a good factor in it. Now sure that purely scouting light mech with nothing but tag on it, might help out your LRM boat, but what about the other teams light mech? He might not be brain dead, and might just be the reason your team gets crushed, but since you teams light is being nothing but a scout and Not killing the other light mech, then theres not much your team can do about it. Plus, for every mech that does not do damage, someone else has to pick up that slack, so everyone has to do some thing worth their mech slot on the team.

[Natasha Kerensky]

Kousagi, on 14 February 2013 - 06:11 AM, said:

Its not about Pure damage, but so long as you are able to kill 1 mech of the same weight class or higher on the enemy team, then you have pulled your weight. Which should land you somewhere in the 150 damage range, depending on how good of a shot ya are. Though you should have at least hurt some other mechs too so.

To be counted as a contributor to the win however, you have to kill/hurt more then your own weight class or enable your team to deal greater amounts of damage while not taking as much... like say light mech distraction as the enemy team plays catch the fast mech then your team rolls in for lovely back shots.

I agree. Not everyone is going to have perfect headshots on people. So assuming they are very good, they should have around at least 150 damage with 3 kills?

[skelley92]

Damage doesn’t really matter. It’s about contributing to the team, the win and fulfilling your role in the team.

Yesterday was a perfect example, I dropped in a CN9-D with 1 heavy and 6 assaults. I was by far the fastest mech on the board, about 100kph. When we realized the team’s makeup, orders came out “assaults stick together, skelley go cap”.

So I capped, which divided up their team into smaller and smaller groups trying to counter my capping, which made easy pickings for our assault wolf pack. I think I did 24 points of damage.

Did I contribute? Was I credit to my team? I think so.

Edited by skelley92, 14 February 2013 - 07:09 AM.

[Taurick]

150, with the caveat that a ballistics spider will probably struggle to get that but will make up for it by causing enemy heavies to turn their back on our strike lance

[Eric darkstar Marr]

Okay for all the ones posting it doesn't matter you lie. You and I both know your type is the first to whine about X player doing 8 damage in a match. That being said 200 minimum and you have truly contributed to the game.

If the bottom 2-4 do 200 damage each it means there is not much carrying by the other players and make for a more balance game. Now yes you will have those games with 4 players doing over a thousand and then a couple of 500s then a couple of 200s those games are rare but do happen and that is from 5 atlai and like 3 heavy/assault also.

The only time I would never ever ever care is if that guy that did 100 damage or so took out 3 mechs by head shots. Then you are PRO or a cheater or have an awesome mouse that hyper sensitive and adjustable (hint R.A.T.)

[Odin]

Damage is what brings the other guy down, right.
But it would be nonsense to call out a minimum, for haven's sake.
Do as much damage as you want, or can, some do less damage but have high kill rates ------>
AC20.

Accuracy, high SA and a good sense for team play are more important.




Odin

[Nonsense]

You can say that damage doesn't matter on an individual level and come up with hundreds of anecdotes describing situations where you did something awesome for the team and did little damage.

But...I challenge you to find many examples where you had 3 or more people on your team do less than 150ish damage and you still win (via destroying the enemy).

Face it, cap wins suck because they're kinda boring and don't give much XP/cbills. The vast majority of games end with one team destroyed. A few games end in conquest resource victories but even among those, a lot of mechs are destroyed to make way for that fast mech or two to out-cap the enemy.

Total damage doesn't matter on an individual level, but as a team you don't want too many individuals doing small damage....

I hope all you "damage doesn't matter" people understand why everyone thinking "damage doesn't matter" is dangerous psychology.