64 replies to this topic

[Deamhan]

Three things really need to happen

1. With this next patch, both the new matchmaker and some anti ECM mechanics will be introduced. So this is a wait and see as to what effect this will have.

2. I put forward the question about an antihack program like punkbuster in Ask the Devs so we will see what the word on that is.

3. The question has been covered but I can't remember what the reply was concerning limiting crit slots on hard points or otherwise putting some kind of restriction on what can be put onto them on a 'as mech' basis.

Adapt? I got your adaptation right here, to bad you can't see it from your monitor.

Teams consist of 2 ECM Lights, 2 ECM Atlas and the rest consist of...

Duel Gauss Cats or Catas
Duel AC20 of the same
4 or 6 PPC Stalkers
Splat Cat and Splat Stalker

But the mech isn't as important as the weapons. An over abundance of SRM 6, PPC, Gauss and AC20. The lights run streak heavy. Anything "less" and you are selling your team short.

That is what this game has been reduced to. If "adapting" is to be forced into a specific build/team config then this game is fail. Don't even bother with the "human factor" that is 'team work'. Of course the better player / teamwork will do better. That is something that is somewhat out of the Devs hands except for the new match maker. What IS within the control of the Devs is to do their best to balance the weapons and mechs.

Edited by Deamhan, 17 February 2013 - 10:36 PM.

[Zero Neutral]

I build Wits End on Warwick some times when I am taking too much AP damage.

[Star Colonel Mustard Kerensky]

[Woska]

I've noticed that weapon preferences run through cycles. People are sheep. And if someone is successful with a certain type of weapon, they all have to try it.

Case in point is the AC/2. For a while there half the mechs on the field were ballistic heavy and carrying as many AC/2s as they could. After a while the players started to see the down side of the weapon and gravitated to something else.

So yes, you have to adapt. You need to adapt your weapon loadout to suit your play style. You need to adapt your tactics to the enemy's action and weapons.

[Stoicblitzer]

I can't argue with what you're saying. that's the way the game currently is.

[Rift Hawk]

Woska, on 17 February 2013 - 10:03 PM, said:

I've noticed that weapon preferences run through cycles. People are sheep. And if someone is successful with a certain type of weapon, they all have to try it.

Case in point is the AC/2. For a while there half the mechs on the field were ballistic heavy and carrying as many AC/2s as they could. After a while the players started to see the down side of the weapon and gravitated to something else.

So yes, you have to adapt. You need to adapt your weapon loadout to suit your play style. You need to adapt your tactics to the enemy's action and weapons.

You should not have to adapt your weapon setup because people continuously boat weapons. Playing a splat cat is probably the easiest and most dumbed down mech you can play.

It is one thing to tell someone to adapt their playstyle in a match to do better. Its another to tell people to adapt their mech fits because anything but build A or build B is putting your team at a disadvantage. I was in a game with an A-1 who had a mix of weapons. Some LRMs and some SRMs. He got sh*t talked right into a disconnect. Got called useless and a noob. As if anyone playing a splat cat has any right to call anyone a noob.

So instead of someone playing a legit build that can do damage at multiple different ranges, hes expected to run some no brain fit ? That my friends, is fail.

[Star Colonel Mustard Kerensky]

Imperial X, on 17 February 2013 - 10:13 PM, said:

So instead of someone playing a legit build that can do damage at multiple different ranges, hes expected to run some no brain fit ? That my friends, is fail.

My problem with statements like this is the noobs read them and then go and do something incredibly dumb, like DDC with a MPL, ERLL, lrm 5, 2 srm 2s and then a pair of ac/2s.

It would be helpful if you would provide an example of a "good" or "balanced" build. We can already infer that you find splatapults "dumb"

Edited by Astroniomix, 17 February 2013 - 10:22 PM.

[Rift Hawk]

Astroniomix, on 17 February 2013 - 10:21 PM, said:

My problem with statements like this is the noobs read them and then go and do something incredibly dumb, like DDC with a MPL, ERLL, lrm 5, 2 srm 2s and then a pair of ac/2s.

It would be helpful if you would provide an example of a "good" or "balanced" build. We can already infer that you find splatapults "dumb"

6 flamers obviously. Go noobs read this and unite with flaming death.

As I was talking about A-1s for instance, there really isn't a huge intuitive leap into what I would consider a good balanced build. There are only 6 missile slots after all.

As for you atlas example, I have never owned one in my entire time playing this game. So as to what fit would work best, I'm not the person to give said example. Though a build that is limited to 270m like I constantly see is not what I would find a balanced build. Nor is one with only PPCs.

I can give an example of my AWS-8T however. I have 1 LL, 2 Lpulse, and 2 SRM6. I usually do 400-600 damage. Sometimes I hit higher, sometimes I hit lower. I'm rarely at a range where I cannot hit a mech because its too far away or too close. About the only time I have issues with this build, is when I hit Caustic.

As for my 8V, I have 1 ERPPC, 2LL, and 2 SRM4s. Again I get good damage. And even more than the previous mech, rarely find myself in a position where I can't hit a mech because of distance. Either too close or too far.

My Cents all have a mix or range as well. I also do well in those mechs. People don't have to boat weapons to have decent builds. Put some effort in, its much more enjoyable.

Edited by Imperial X, 17 February 2013 - 10:35 PM.

[p00k]

Imperial X, on 17 February 2013 - 10:13 PM, said:

So instead of someone playing a legit build that can do damage at multiple different ranges, hes expected to run some no brain fit ? That my friends, is fail.

your mistake is thinking weapon variety makes a build "legit". it doesn't. might work in tabletop, but when you actually have to aim, and when cover and not dice rolls determine hit vs miss, and when things are moving in real time, a build that tries to be ok at everything is good at nothing. the splatcat may be cheesy, but the real "no brain" move is not realizing how to use your build and your terrain in concert

you claim a splatcat is a dumb way to play. honestly how much thinking is required to to play these "legit" builds you speak of?

[Star Colonel Mustard Kerensky]

Imperial X, on 17 February 2013 - 10:27 PM, said:

6 flamers obviously. Go noobs read this and unite with flaming death.

As I was talking about A-1s for instance, there really isn't a huge intuitive leap into what I would consider a good balanced build. There are only 6 missile slots after all.

As for you atlas example, I have never owned one in my entire time playing this game. So as to what fit would work best, I'm not the person to give said example. Though a build that is limited to 270m like I constantly see is not what I would find a balanced build. Nor is one with only PPCs.

So how about a DDC with 3 srm6, an ac/20 and 2LL?

[Crockdaddy]

Deamhan, on 17 February 2013 - 09:49 PM, said:

Three things really need to happen

1. With this next patch, both the new matchmaker and some anti ECM mechanics will be introduced. So this is a wait and see as to what effect this will have.

2. I put forward the question about an antihack program like spyware in Ask the Devs so we will see what the word on that is.

3. The question has been covered but I can't remember what the reply was concerning limiting crit slots on hard points or otherwise putting some kind of restriction on what can be put onto them on a 'as mech' basis.

Adapt? I got your adaptation right here, to bad you can't see it from your monitor.

Teams consist of 2 ECM Lights, 2 ECM Atlas and the rest consist of...

Duel Gauss Cats or Catas
Duel AC20 of the same
4 or 6 PPC Stalkers
Splat Cat and Splat Stalker

But the mech isn't as important as the weapons. An over abundance of SRM 6, PPC, Gauss and AC20. The lights run streak heavy. Anything "less" and you are selling your team short.

That is what this game has been reduced to. If "adapting" is to be forced into a specific build/team config then this game is fail. Don't even bother with the "human factor" that is 'team work'. Of course the better player / b teamwork will do better. That is something that is somewhat out of the Devs hands except for the new match maker. What IS within the control of the Devs is to do their best to balance the weapons and mechs.

While it hurts, it is the truth. The rough part is, if you don't optimize your builds ...ultimately you are selling your team short. I love the full customization. I used to HATE PPC's. Now I almost have to run PPC's to get the job done. I kinda wish they would limit customization so that each individual mech would mean something unique.

[Stoicblitzer]

I see where you're coming from p00k however the splatcat is pretty OP for what is required of it. Once you use terrain and sneak up on any mech, it's sometimes a one-shot kill. Sure I guess it's their responsibility to stay outside of 270m but srm cats are faster than some mediums.

[hammerreborn]

Imperial X, on 17 February 2013 - 10:27 PM, said:

6 flamers obviously. Go noobs read this and unite with flaming death.

You mean like this?



I been killing with 6 flamers since before it was cool. Ask prosperity, he's seen it

[mattkachu]

Could be worse.

You could have a catapult-A1 ambush you with 6 narc launchers. You'll never see it coming.

And when you see it, you cant unsee it.

[Stoicblitzer]

mattkachu, on 17 February 2013 - 10:37 PM, said:

Could be worse.

You could have a catapult-A1 ambush you with 6 narc launchers. You'll never see it coming.

And when you see it, you cant unsee it.

R . O . F . L .

[hammerreborn]

mattkachu, on 17 February 2013 - 10:37 PM, said:

Could be worse.

You could have a catapult-A1 ambush you with 6 narc launchers. You'll never see it coming.

And when you see it, you cant unsee it.

Hmm......tempted to make this. But I don't really want to spend all that money on an A1. Maybe I'll do it in the trebuchet.

[mattkachu]

hammerreborn, on 17 February 2013 - 10:42 PM, said:

Hmm......tempted to make this. But I don't really want to spend all that money on an A1. Maybe I'll do it in the trebuchet.

I'd personally use the catapult -c4? the one with 4 missile slots and 2 energy.

That way, like a true mechwarrior, you can use TAG and Flamer to accompany your 4 narcs.

4 narc + 5 tons ammo, 1 flamer, 1 TAG, and you're looking at easy 1k damage game? If you're OP: 2k dmg

[Stoicblitzer]

mattkachu, on 17 February 2013 - 10:46 PM, said:

I'd personally use the catapult -c4? the one with 4 missile slots and 2 energy.

That way, like a true mechwarrior, you can use TAG and Flamer to accompany your 4 narcs.

4 narc + 5 tons ammo, 1 flamer, 1 TAG, and you're looking at easy 1k damage game? If you're OP: 2k dmg

HAHAHA. I need something I can put machine guns, tags, and narcs on in abundance...what could i do? HELP PLZ!

Edited by Stoicblitzer, 17 February 2013 - 10:51 PM.

[hammerreborn]

mattkachu, on 17 February 2013 - 10:46 PM, said:

I'd personally use the catapult -c4? the one with 4 missile slots and 2 energy.

That way, like a true mechwarrior, you can use TAG and Flamer to accompany your 4 narcs.

4 narc + 5 tons ammo, 1 flamer, 1 TAG, and you're looking at easy 1k damage game? If you're OP: 2k dmg

Maybe I'd make 2 NARC 1 TAG 3 Flamer C1 because I have the founders. I don't feel like spending any money on catapults.

[Deamhan]

To me, play style falls under things like, scouting/intel; brawling; LRM support; sniping; etc. Now with that said...

I run a C1, I favor brawling so a balanced brawling build that I run with is 2 steaks, 2 LPulse Lasers and 2 Med lasers.

I see the mech/variant combo determining the role as much as the weapon load out. Take the A1 for example. I don't see it as a brawler mech. I see the primary intent being LRM support but with 6 missile hard points, they would be smart to bring some close range to at least be viable in case someone gets within 180m. So they have a combo of long and short range. As someone said, 2 LRMs, 2 SRM, and 2 Streak. Brawler heavy with LRM support capability.

"Sniper" mechs should be those capable of bringing a gauss. That same mech can give up the gauss and go brawl by bringing a AC20. Another mech can bring two (er)ppc to snipe using energy. This is where the hardpoint should have crit space limitations asigned to them. This would make choosing the mech/variant as much to do with determining your "class" (role) as the weapons do.

Now they said that they will be giving the mechs "perks" but based on what? Indended role I think.....

Is it really gonna stop the above "must have" weapon loadouts? Not unless it's gonna mean that the person gets an equal footing that they did with the cheese builds. If it does? Oh god is this a **** poor way to deter the use of cheese builds. My prediction, however, is that the perks are gonna be worse than the current pilot tree perks which means people will ignore them and it won't fix anything.