71 replies to this topic

[Khobai]

ECM simply shouldnt grant sensor stealth at all.

NSS is the system that grants sensor stealth. All mechs should be able to use NSS. It takes up 2-3 tons and 1 crit slot in every location.

[Hawks]

cdlord, on 18 February 2013 - 01:34 PM, said:

Right now ECM does the job of three pieces of equipment: Guardian EMC, Angel ECM, and Null Signature.

QFT

[John MatriX82]

ECM should only render the bearer invisible to the radars unless he's tagged/narc'd/hit by a PPC.

Whenever someone with ECM enters a range that goes from 0 to 180m from any allied mech, then he's spotted and can be targeted. Those who bring bap get their detection range (to 250) and faster lock on time on him and for the team.

Add sensor ranges and this range increases up to 300 with level 1 + bap and 350 with adv. Leave away bap and you get 250 with basic level sensor range and 300 with adv. It should also take away any effect on allied mechs.

NO more screwing of your targeting info and map. This thing destroys puggers experience. ECM should be only a tool to avoid LRM fire (an alternative to AMS) in the distance and to infiltrate undetected enemy lines. Stop.

[SlXSlXSlX]

If ECM is "too OP" then it stands to reason that all you would see are ECM mechs. Go pub for an hour. You will see far more non-ecm mechs, than ecm mechs. No one would buy Illyas, or an assortment of other hero mechs, that do not carry ECM.

This is simply not the case. An hour of pubbing will show you the same. For all teh power you claim it has, the majority of players, don't use it regularly. Some, never use it.

[Tahribator]

ECM is only broken for lights with streaks. Raven 3L's, Streak Commandos become so powerful that they just dominate other lights/meds. One single Raven can even solo an Atlas without a problem.

Yet the only counter to those mechs are the same mechs, more 3L's and Streaks. I see a very quick solution; increase ECM tonnage to 5. This will force significant forepower sacrificies, limiting ECM lights to electronic countermeasures only. Currently they are invincible, pack tons of firepower and still use the lagshields.

[DeadlyNerd]

"ECM prevents ANY weapons from locking, friendly or hostile", and we're done.
This'll only nerf the 3Ls, 2Ds and D-DC LRM boats, practically the only mechs that are the cause of people complaining about ECM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Kousagi, on 18 February 2013 - 03:45 PM, said:

If you do not know anything about TT, do not bring up TT. Guardian does NOT.. I repeat NOT do the job of Null sig. They both have the same effects in TT with a level 3 rule called double blind, which is the rule set for sensor detection. Now Guardian does pick up a single rule from Angel, but its not as powerful as a Angel suite. Also, We lose a few rules from TT to MWO as well....

That being said, Do not use TT as a reason to change or not to change something. TT is used as a base line for balance then they modify it as needed...

Correct, it is MORE powerful than Angel ECM. Angel ECM only make SSRMs dumbfire weapons like Standard ECM.NSS Does not have the same effect as Guardian as NSS causes a mech to generate +10 heat per turn to be nearly invisible to thermal scan. Guardian ECM is not even close to balanced Sir.

this is what we are equipping:

Quote

Affected systems include Artemis IV, C3 and C3i Computer networks, and Narc Missile Beacons. A Guardian can jam a Beagle Active Probe (or its Clan equivalent), but the probe-equipped unit will be aware of the jamming.

Does it say LRMs? Does it say Streaks? This is what Our ECM is supposed to do.

While the larger more powerful Angel ECM does This:

Quote

The Angel ECM Suite represents a great advance in ECM technology from the standard Guardian model. Within its 6 hex radius of effect, the Angel suite completely blocks the following systems on enemy units: Artemis IV, Artemis V, Beagle Active Probes, Bloodhound Active Probes and their Clan equivalents, C3 Master Computers and C3 Slaves, Streak Missile Launchers and Narc missile beacons. Streak missiles may be fired at units affected by the device, but they function as standard missiles

This is what Our ECM is EXCEEDING. IF we are going to have ECM doing all these things, then raise the price, Mass and crit requirements accordingly.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 23 February 2013 - 10:25 AM.

[Hawks]

SlXSlXSlX, on 23 February 2013 - 10:13 AM, said:

If ECM is "too OP" then it stands to reason that all you would see are ECM mechs. Go pub for an hour. You will see far more non-ecm mechs, than ecm mechs. No one would buy Illyas, or an assortment of other hero mechs, that do not carry ECM.

This is simply not the case. An hour of pubbing will show you the same. For all teh power you claim it has, the majority of players, don't use it regularly. Some, never use it.

No, it would stand to reason that we would rarely see the non-ECM chassis variants of the mechs that can carry ECM.

And this is what we see

In PUG drops, you rarely see non-DDC Atlases (if you ignore the trial Ds that are obviously going to be kicking about at the moment), non-3L Ravens, non-3M Cicadas, or non-2D Commandos (again, disregarding Trial mechs for obvious reasons). The fact of the matter is, if you see one of these mechs, it almost certainly *WILL* be the ECM variant.

Over the past day or so I have seen ONE Atlas K. I have seen ONE Atlas RS. I have seen a fair few Trial Ds, and the odd Founders D that is presumably being brought out to make the most of the current extra Founders bonus.

But I would guesstimate that over 90% of the Atlases I have seen HAVE BEEN DDCs, and they all HAVE BEEN carrying ECM. And I would hazard a guess that the majority of non-DDC Atlases (ignoring the Founders and Trials as explained above) were simply being used to grind out XP to unlock their pilot efficiencies, in order to open up the next level of efficiencies for their 'better' mech - the DDC.

In fact, I would bet money on that.

Edited by Hawks, 23 February 2013 - 10:26 AM.

[DocBach]

Joseph Mallan, on 23 February 2013 - 10:25 AM, said:

Correct, it is MORE powerful than Angel ECM. Angel ECM only make SSRMs dumbfire weapons like Standard ECM.NSS Does not have the same effect as Guardian as NSS causes a mech to generate +10 heat per turn to be nearly invisible to thermal scan. Guardian ECM is not even close to balanced Sir.

Guardian is more powerful than Angel as a missile screener, but less powerful in that it doesn't block the super advanced Level 3 electronics tech not included in MechWarrior. So for our purposes, it's more powerful.

[Deamhan]

Just because something is OP like ECM, won't stop people from piloting other things. ECM Raven w/ streak is a pretty grossly OP. Some people will avoid using it for that very reason. Machine guns and flamers are pretty useless but that doesn't stop people from taking them or even boating nothing but. Other people just don't like the way a light handles and others will not use it simply because they don't like the look of it.

Kinda reminds me of black dye. Playing a couple games that allowed armor to be dyed, black was one of the most expensive, if not THE most expensive. People say that, "if it was cheap everyone would be dyed black" but It's not the case at all. The high price makes people want it more because it becomes a stature of wealth and it also tended to be the most rare to drop. It becomes self inflated through the nature in which it is implemented into the games economy. Make it as easy to get as any other and make it available at a price equal to any other color and you will find that people no longer view it as a stature for wealth and will take something they like the look of and/or makes them look more original.

In the case of the mechs, some people will intentionally not take the Raven 3L or Atlas DDC w/ ECM simply to be different. Especially if those ECM mechs are all that everyone else uses.

Human nature will ultimately prevent there being nothing but 3Ls and DDCs despite ECM being so OP.

Oh and I forgot that you need to play the non ECM variants of the chassis to level up ECM variant.
Give every mech ECM for a week and I can guarantee that, while you will see way more ECM on the field, you will also still see people not bringing it. Again, human nature. Some won't use it out of spite for being OP while others won't use it just to be different. There are many reasons for what people do and why they do it. Your mech and load out choice is no exception and is no indicator as to what makes something OP or not.

Edited by Deamhan, 23 February 2013 - 10:37 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Ok, Thanks for the catch!

[Dr Killinger]

I fear the day that Angel ECM is introduced. What will that beast be capable of? ECM needs to be toned down or they won't have anywhere to go from here. That, and it does one hell of a lot for it's weight and tonnage.