483 replies to this topic

[Mackensen]

Carmaga, on 22 February 2013 - 11:32 PM, said:

Seriously...

1) Where is our team ECM? Enemy had 4 ECM mechs and we had none.
2) Where is our light mechs? Enemy had 4 light mechs and we had none.
3) Where is enemy's medium mechs? We had 5 and enemy had none.
4) Where is our one-shot-kill // cheesy builds? Enemy had them (including splatpult).

You call this balance?

I know, we won the battle (by capping), but the taste was horrible. My opinion is: *Imagine here swearing and lots of bad language*



I have been supporting the game with my money because I love it so much. But this is something I don't want to support.

Obviously the matchmaker is intelligent enough to recognise hard-*** players from Finland. You guys are used to fight against impossible odds

[arghmace]

Carmaga, on 22 February 2013 - 11:32 PM, said:

1) Where is our team ECM? Enemy had 4 ECM mechs and we had none.

I don't think it's MM's job to balance this out. Just fix ECM so that it is not OP.

Quote

2) Where is our light mechs? Enemy had 4 light mechs and we had none.

Quote

3) Where is enemy's medium mechs? We had 5 and enemy had none.

Actually Cicada is a medium. Anyway if you add up the tonnages, the battle is very even. As I said earlier, it's quite impossible to match weight classes along with player skill and groups of up to 4 players. It would require millions of simultaneous players most likely. The best thing would be to even out team tonnage.

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4) Where is our one-shot-kill // cheesy builds? Enemy had them (including splatpult).

Now this especially is not MM's job. You think a mathematical algorithm is capable of evaluating build performance? The amount of skills unlocked on a chassis could be part of MM, but not builds. If cheesy one-shotters are a problem, the solution is to nerf them, not make impossible demands on MM.

[John MatriX82]

Jokes apart, now I sometimes like a lot how the matchmaker sets my opponents, because usually the resulting battles are striving, harsh, brutal and every single step is a battle for your life where if you miss 1 shot your'e doomed.

Unfortunately several other times I suppose that I get paired up with less skilled players (ppl rushing, shutting down under LRM fire, or uncapable even to deal 100 dmg to the other team) or I can clearly see to play always in underweighted teams (and I don't mean 50 or 70 tons, I speak of 200 tons of difference).


Quite amusingly, pugging or 4man matches have become tremendously difficult while 8mans are more relaxing.. And I don't know if this can be considered a good thing or not.

Now I really can't take anymore several hours of consecutive play, in certain matches I end up quite strained.

[Slick762]

2 assaults, 2 heavies, 3 lights vs 4 assaults, 2 meduims, 2 lights

7 mechs at 430 tons vs 8 mechs at 530 tons. Add in the ECM advantage of the other team and we never stood a chance. Thanks guys, really love the new MM.

Edited by Slick762, 23 February 2013 - 06:34 AM.

[Catalinasgrace]

Same here.... I have been in matchs that one team had many assults and the other team did not have a single assult. I have been in other matchs that the team had 5-6 lights and the other team had 1... WAY un-balanced...

[Carmaga]

arghmace, on 23 February 2013 - 05:30 AM, said:

I don't think it's MM's job to balance this out. Just fix ECM so that it is not OP.

ECM does not need fix. It's not op. It's op for LRM and Streak boats. Communication, focus-fire and tagging is the key. And now we have also PPC's and (fixed) narcs to counter ECM - thought they are not good enough for LRM usage. They just reveal the enemy position if it's flanking. And ECM is definitely not op if MM3 puts it to your team to counter enemy ECM.

Problem is that MM3 puts usually the ECM to one team while other team has none. Or even better, MM3 puts LRM boats and ECM on one team. But 4x ECM builds vs non ECM team is a bit OP. ECM team should go against ECM team. I'm sure there is enough ECM builds out there that MM3 could balance and put them against each other.

MM's job is to find balanced gameplay. If ELO finds a good raven pilot, put him against another light mech who has the same level of skill. It should put head-shot-golden-hand poptarts to fight each other, not to fight on same team against the enemy. Put those IDKFA gamers to fight each other. Put 4-mech premade teams fight each other. In MM2 if we had a light mech, enemy had one. If there was centurion, enemy probably had one too: Implement ELO to MM2. That I would call balanced.

And put me back in a normal MWO drop to fight normal games we had in MM2! Put me in a drop where enemy does not have k/d ratio over 2.0 (eliminates the cheesy build k/d grinders).

Atm. team who has biggest guns wins. It's not about the skills, it's about the firepower -- excluding chicken runs.

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Actually Cicada is a medium. Anyway if you add up the tonnages, the battle is very even. As I said earlier, it's quite impossible to match weight classes along with player skill and groups of up to 4 players. It would require millions of simultaneous players most likely. The best thing would be to even out team tonnage.

Then go back to MM2 where I had a lot of fun. Don't implement ELO in-to the game if MWO does not have enough players.

And my bad calling Cicada as a light mech. In the battle it's stuck to me that everything dwarf and fast is 'light'. Everyone knows what we are against.

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Now this especially is not MM's job. You think a mathematical algorithm is capable of evaluating build performance? The amount of skills unlocked on a chassis could be part of MM, but not builds. If cheesy one-shotters are a problem, the solution is to nerf them, not make impossible demands on MM.

The solution is to put them fight against each other while -- we who are having normal builds are fighting our own fights.

Edited by Carmaga, 23 February 2013 - 12:05 PM.

[Ryvucz]

After using it for quite some time, I'm glad solo queue players don't have to wait nearly as long.

However, I am very disappointed that I am not being placed in matches with people that match my skills on my team.

They all appear to be on the opposing team.

More often than not, I'm on a team with 6 members versus 8 on their side.

So basically, no change in experience for me since match making was introduced.

[Capt Jester]

I have managed to find matches very quickly with a 4-man group, and have not managed to win one match all day. The closest we ever came to winning was 4-8, with most matches ending either 0-8, 1-8, and rarely 2-8.

I'm really disappointed, as the idea with this system was to have that NOT happen. Really it seems like there were more even games without the new system. I think the Elo scores need time to even out and NOT count towards matchmaking to let them stabilize without affecting gameplay.

[SteelWarrior]

Dont know what to tell you guys. Ive won every game ive played since the patch. And some super enjoyable down to the wire matches. Not always matched in weight classes but the end result seems balanced from where Im standing.

[JoJoxy]

Carmaga, on 22 February 2013 - 11:32 PM, said:

I have been supporting the game with my money because I love it so much. But this is something I don't want to support.

I tend to agree.

[ATao]

I'm seeing much closer fights now that MM3 is going. Nothing too serious, random is random after all, but now I definetely feel that overall skill level of most opponents is more balanced. Nothing like "one game 8-0 win, second game 0-8 loss". More tight fights with closer scores.

Guess it worked after all, ELO. Yeah of course not all angles are covered but general direction seems right. Random matches did improve and became more interesting which is perfectly fine by me. Good job PGI. Now give us custom battle mode to arrange competitive games . Pretty please?

Edited by Alexander Malthus, 23 February 2013 - 02:09 PM.

[Norman Knight]

Had my worst match a few minutes ago:

050 HBK-4J
050 TBT-7K
050 TBT-7M
065 CPLT-C1
065 CPLT-K2
065 CPLT-K2
070 CTF-4X
070 ILYA
------------
485 / NO ECM
============

versus

035 RVN-3L
035 RVN-3L
035 RVN-3L
035 JR7-D
050 CN9-A
070 ILYA
080 AWS-8Q
100 AS7-D
------------
440 / 3x ECM
============

Even with these 45 tons more we were simply swarmed and jammed by Ravens and the leftovers were stomped by the assaults ... maybe it would have been a good match without ECM and non-lagged lights ...
but as it is now, it was just a bad joke :-/

Edited by Norman Knight, 23 February 2013 - 02:40 PM.

[Void Angel]

Oh, The Anger and the Tearfulness. Every time something needs tuning, it's The End of the Game As We Know It! Elo is a good thing, and while it will take a bit to get everything sorted out, it's a step that HAD to be taken.

Now, there does seem to be a problem with the matchmaker putting uneven teams together - but it's workable. You just have to discard the old assumption that you'll always see the same weight classes on each team. I do think that running into 4-man Raven "skill" teams is a bit asinine, and that needs to be stopped. But overall, we need to remember that this is a system that's still being tested, and it may take a lot of playing hours to has out all the details.

Hey, isn't there a solo tournament going on right now? =)

[CG Oglethorpe Kerensky]

You cannot possibly be serious,
6 (SIX!) Assault mechs and 2 heavies (730 tons)
vs
4 Assaults, 3 Mediums, 1 Light (550 tons)

[Deathlike]

I recently had a match where my team had NO heavies or assaults and the other team had ONE heavy (K2) and ONE assault (Awesome)...

The other team got rolled to 7-1 (must've been some TK or overheat somewhere).

It's kinda working as intended. I don't remember if there were any Raven 3Ls, but there was some ECM going around from other mechs.

[Carmaga]

Deathlike, on 23 February 2013 - 04:57 PM, said:

I recently had a match where my team had NO heavies or assaults and the other team had ONE heavy (K2) and ONE assault (Awesome)...

The other team got rolled to 7-1 (must've been some TK or overheat somewhere).

It's kinda working as intended. I don't remember if there were any Raven 3Ls, but there was some ECM going around from other mechs.

Well, I've been droping constantly to total annihilation matches. (excluding caprushes or miracle drops when our team has IDKFA and IDDQD builds). MM3 and ELO is against me and I lose all the time. Everyone else is better pilot than me. I play MWO just because I love it so much.

Take a look for example this "total annihilation" video I just uploaded to youtube. When I started to record the clip, we have already lost and it was 3 vs 8. I gave up on teamwork and proper aiming and tried to go after one kill. The whole drop was doomed from the beginning.

Everyone else are better pilot than me. Either I need to skill myself to be better pilot or drop to these total annihilation matches. So if you see me on your team, prepare to lose.



In MM3 + ELO, there's no question about skills. The team who has the biggest guns always wins.

Trebucket is kinda cool mech. Ugly from outside but it has slender and elegant cockpit.

Edited by Carmaga, 23 February 2013 - 06:47 PM.

[SVK Puskin]

OMG, the class balance is totaly f*ck*d up!!!

[SVK Puskin]

CG Oglethorpe Kerensky, on 23 February 2013 - 04:24 PM, said:

You cannot possibly be serious,
6 (SIX!) Assault mechs and 2 heavies (730 tons)
vs
4 Assaults, 3 Mediums, 1 Light (550 tons)

Yeah the class balance is history, totaly unbalanced matches.

[JonDoeIowa]

Since the launch of MM3 I gave it time, hoping things would work themselves out. But when matches drop of 5 Atlas, 1 stalker, 1 catapult, 1 flame vs a team with 2 ravens, 1 jenner, 1 centurian, 1 trebuchet, 1 stalker, and 2 cataphracts the balance is not there. So much firepower is not an even fight, and this isn't a once in a while thing. You want to balance it fine, put the weight rules back into effect and just balance skill, cause right now it isn't taking mech into account at all and I've invested in this game and at this point I am looking to step away. I know PGI you're trying but this has made the game lose all it's appeal to me. Good luck.

Edited by Jondoeiowa, 23 February 2013 - 08:49 PM.

[Carmaga]

Thontor, on 23 February 2013 - 07:20 PM, said:

i cant tell you how many matches i've been where we were outwieghed by the opposition and still won... and that's purly solo dropping..

and i'm not talking hoards of light mechs on our teams either.

I'm happy for you And it's awesome when ppl have good time in MWO!

Unfortunately I'm not having that privilege. And from my part, there's nothing much I can do about it. My voice is small in this huge mwomercs.com community so it can't be heard by the devs.

Atm. I've been dropping more or less non-stop and got my and my team's butt kicked by über builds (2xAC20, 2-4xPPC's, 6xSRM's, 2xGauss) which seem to be ridiculously accurate aim'rs or 3-4 ECM builds vs. non ECM builds. Mostly I can't get down even a single mech even thought I deal damage from 0-400 per drop with my Trebuchet.

Edit: During MM3 I had this one drop which felt good, extremely exciting, humane and balanced. Otherwise I've been getting totally annihilated.

Edited by Carmaga, 23 February 2013 - 11:17 PM.