1236 replies to this topic

[Kuritaclan]

Roughneck45, on 03 January 2015 - 07:16 AM, said:

Well, duh.

I was thinking more about how the Timby ouclasses the summoner in just about every category.

Since the TBR is the crown of mechs and is called to do so by Russ i do not see that the Summoner has a chance to come near this light. For me the summoner should get some love to make it a viable option like bringing a hellbringer. Or a KFX "Ams"el.

The summoner could need a 2-4 energy point ct part to bring it in line to other clan mechs - vomitwise. Or just unfix the fixed jj's on this mech, what will help too, or like some are demanding give him es and ff. There are many options beside of quirks. In the end PGI will hopefully do something.

Edited by Kuritaclan, 03 January 2015 - 07:26 AM.

[Roughneck45]

Some badass ballistic quirks could be nice since it can high mount them in the torsos.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 January 2015 - 04:08 PM, said:

considering the other issues with the Summoner, would having a 15+5 dmg PPC really be unbalancing?

Lol, would certainly make the SMN Prime a real monster. its ripping your arm off in 2 shots AND spreading some love to the adjoining torso..prolly a bit OP. Id rather just have a 15dmg PPC.....

Idk how much the Summoner P would need if we simply got a 15/15 CERPPC....

[Kuritaclan]

Roughneck45, on 03 January 2015 - 07:30 AM, said:

Some badass ballistic quirks could be nice since it can high mount them in the torsos.

Well yeah kind off. The problem is don't stacking ballistics on clan mechs mean your PPdamage is pretty bad - a single big ballistic isn't something what makes you comfortable, when on the other side are same weighted chassis with 1 more of them and PPdamage instead of spread. Ballistics are erratic on longer range and ammo dependend.

I do not think that ballistic quirks help much, since the summoner has just not enough laod tonnage to boat and therefore become effectiv. 2 cl-uac5s are lousy - only if you stack them like on a direwolf those become pretty insane.

[Bluefalcon13]

Bishop, have you tried any of the other SARNA stock variants, such as the A or the C? The thing I like about the stock prime is that you have less face-tank time with it, and can twist a lot more.

[InspectorG]

Roughneck45, on 03 January 2015 - 07:30 AM, said:

Some badass ballistic quirks could be nice since it can high mount them in the torsos.

Yeah but it cant Dual anything over uAC5...and that itself doesnt leave much tonnage.
Better would be new side torso pods with E points.

[Xythius]

Kuritaclan, on 03 January 2015 - 07:54 AM, said:

Well yeah kind off. The problem is don't stacking ballistics on clan mechs mean your PPdamage is pretty bad - a single big ballistic isn't something what makes you comfortable, when on the other side are same weighted chassis with 1 more of them and PPdamage instead of spread. Ballistics are erratic on longer range and ammo dependend.

I do not think that ballistic quirks help much, since the summoner has just not enough laod tonnage to boat and therefore become effectiv. 2 cl-uac5s are lousy - only if you stack them like on a direwolf those become pretty insane.

Oddly enough, while in general I agree, my 2x UAC5 2x ERMED Summoner has been a solid performer for me. Probaby since it allows me to stay at a range to be unnoticed in the early stages of a fight. Which, of course, is one of the things that has been mentioned at length about this chassis - it can be effective when you can utilize the other 'mechs on your team to distract and occupy the enemy. However, thats a sad state of affairs when a 'mech near the top end of it's weight class cannot reliably engage another 'mech of its weight class, or even certain 'mechs from the one below it.

Many points have been made in this thread about not only the ability to swap FF/Endo, but quirks as well. Which seems to me to be the way to go. I think the best way for the quirks to work without being game breaking, would be to tie them to the CT pod. For example, give the Prime CT a 20% heat reduction for energy, 20% ERPPC heat reduction (25% each is way OTT as discussed in the Thud thread), 15% ERPPC projectile speed increase & perhaps a range increase, but that is debatable. I would also like to see a spread reduction quirk for the LB10x, but I'm unsure how easy that would be to implement/code, but definitely a generic cooldown + specific LB10X. 15%, maybe 20%, would probably suffice. Not sure that anything would be necessary for the LRM, maybe a small % cooldown, nothing major.

Tying them to the CT, and only if all the other Prime pods are equipped, completely negates the possibility of mixing/matching the best quirks to game the system. A good chassis specific buff would be more structure for the legs & either reduced heat for the jj's, an increased rate of thrust for them, or maybe a combo of the two.

Edited by Xythius, 03 January 2015 - 09:25 AM.

[FupDup]

Bishop Steiner, on 03 January 2015 - 06:12 AM, said:

Well Vass, you are an authority on bad piloting, so I'll take your word on it.

I think he was actually being sarcastic, given that he's normally one of the first people to point out when a mech isn't up to par.

[Kuritaclan]

Xythius, on 03 January 2015 - 08:49 AM, said:

Oddly enough, while in general I agree, my 2x UAC5 2x ERMED Summoner has been a solid performer for me. Probaby since it allows me to stay at a range to be unnoticed in the early stages of a fight. Which, of course, is one of the things that has been mentioned at length about this chassis - it can be effective when you can utilize the other 'mechs on your team to distract and occupy the enemy. However, thats a sad state of affairs when a 'mech near the top end of it's weight class cannot reliably engage another 'mech of its weight class, or even certain 'mechs from the one below it.

Yeah this is pretty much the problem when it comes down using ballistics on clan mechs. It sounds strange, that you have lighter acs/gauss but can't utilize them for standing your own against is mechs on heavy/medium mechs. You allways need someone who is the bait to dish out the dps coming with the spread or you are in the pain of having to much face time to the enemy and not enough punch compared.

@ the rest - well there are couple of ways to make this mech a bit better. I don't like quirks. - I see the need for them, but honestly i wann play mech warrior and not quirk warrior. - I mean it could be handled pretty easy without quirks, so why using those to fix a issue what is fixable by mech customization in first place.

Edited by Kuritaclan, 03 January 2015 - 10:34 AM.

[Deathlike]

FupDup, on 03 January 2015 - 09:23 AM, said:

I think he was actually being sarcastic, given that he's normally one of the first people to point out when a mech isn't up to par.

I think he was replying sarcastically about the sarcasm used.

You know... the Internets.

I may have to rework a build or two on the Summoners..

[ArchSight]

Alright I'm done testing now. I proudly present a summoner that can do something better than the timber wolf.

The Clan LRM Jumper

70 tons
384 Armor
40 Firepower
6.4 DPS
64% cooling efficiency, 14 double heat sinks
Max speed 93.2 KPH
5 Jump jets
Double AMS with 1 ton of 2000 rounds of ammo to counter Clan LRM warfare.
Fast firing, Less stream volley 4x C-LRM 10's with 6 tons of LRM ammo.
Top mounted 600 meter ranged C-NARC that improves LRM accuracy coming with 2 tons of NARC ammo. Good for quick hill humping shots or quick jump jetting shots.

I've tried to do the same load out on the timber wolf and do better than it.
Weaknesses show in a lower amount of critical slots in the torso forcing most of the ammo to be stored in the arms and how many missile racks can be used. I had to put a LRM 20 which stream fires a longer line of missiles instead of grouping more together and fires less faster within the time window of NARC being on a mech. It can equip more LRM and NARC ammo but it can't equip any AMS to counter another mech that NARCed it. Applying Artemis to the LRMs takes up too many critical slots to allow NARC to be equipped at the same time.

I may not be the brightest when it comes to making min/maxed loadouts but in terms of seeing advantages and disadvantages I would say the Summoner wins on doing better with a load out like the LRM jumper.

[LordKnightFandragon]

ArchSight, on 03 January 2015 - 11:51 AM, said:

Alright I'm done testing now. I proudly present a summoner that can do something better than the timber wolf.

The Clan LRM Jumper

70 tons
384 Armor
40 Firepower
6.4 DPS
64% cooling efficiency, 14 double heat sinks
Max speed 93.2 KPH
5 Jump jets
Double AMS with 1 ton of 2000 rounds of ammo to counter Clan LRM warfare.
Fast firing, Less stream volley 4x C-LRM 10's with 6 tons of LRM ammo.
Top mounted 600 meter ranged C-NARC that improves LRM accuracy coming with 2 tons of NARC ammo. Good for quick hill humping shots or quick jump jetting shots.

I've tried to do the same load out on the timber wolf and do better than it.
Weaknesses show in a lower amount of critical slots in the torso forcing most of the ammo to be stored in the arms and how many missile racks can be used. I had to put a LRM 20 which stream fires a longer line of missiles instead of grouping more together and fires less faster within the time window of NARC being on a mech. It can equip more LRM and NARC ammo but it can't equip any AMS to counter another mech that NARCed it. Applying Artemis to the LRMs takes up too many critical slots to allow NARC to be equipped at the same time.

I may not be the brightest when it comes to making min/maxed loadouts but in terms of seeing advantages and disadvantages I would say the Summoner wins on doing better with a load out like the LRM jumper.

And quite frankly, any mech whose star loadout is an LRM boat is a mech that is total trash. LRMs in this game are a weapon that has me very confused. They are equal parts powerful and absolutely useless. I could never make them work, but have been on the receiving end of some very deadly barrages.

I could see the Summoner, with some proper quirks being the Clans premiere poptart over the Timby. kinda what it prolly was designed for...fast, mobile, in, hit hard, poof before anything fires back. Use hte JJ to help further that along.

[Brody319]

LordKnightFandragon, on 03 January 2015 - 12:03 PM, said:

And quite frankly, any mech whose star loadout is an LRM boat is a mech that is total trash. LRMs in this game are a weapon that has me very confused. They are equal parts powerful and absolutely useless. I could never make them work, but have been on the receiving end of some very deadly barrages.

I could see the Summoner, with some proper quirks being the Clans premiere poptart over the Timby. kinda what it prolly was designed for...fast, mobile, in, hit hard, poof before anything fires back. Use hte JJ to help further that along.

LRMs boated = OP
LRMs as a secondary weapon (1-2 launchers) = underpowered.

If they just make the Summoner a PPC boater I think it would be wonderful.

[Mcgral18]

Bishop Steiner, on 03 January 2015 - 06:52 AM, said:

while I agree, do we REALLY need more Clan Laser Vomit builds?

Or some changes to encourage a little variety?

Well, PGI could give us the G STs; or even better the Q. Both are considerably out of timeline, '68 and '69, but both offer 3 Missile slots per ST, as well as a CT E slot (with a Heavy Small).

The Q also offers a Heavy Med in the LT.



I think 10 missiles could be fun.

Of course, knowing PGI....something might go terribly, terribly wrong.

Hm...mutated Mickey Mouse


Or Bugs Bunny?

[Brody319]

Mcgral18, on 03 January 2015 - 12:09 PM, said:

Well, PGI could give us the G STs; or even better the Q. Both are considerably out of timeline, '68 and '69, but both offer 3 Missile slots per ST, as well as a CT E slot (with a Heavy Small).

The Q also offers a Heavy Med in the LT.



I think 10 missiles could be fun.

Of course, knowing PGI....something might go terribly, terribly wrong.

Hm...mutated Mickey Mouse


Or Bugs Bunny?

Oh god!

[LordKnightFandragon]

Brody319, on 03 January 2015 - 12:07 PM, said:

LRMs boated = OP
LRMs as a secondary weapon (1-2 launchers) = underpowered.

If they just make the Summoner a PPC boater I think it would be wonderful.

PPC boat is supposed to be the Warhawk, long range, punchy energy boat...even if it is a rather small boat. Summoner is supposed to be the Clan poptart, or agile striker heavy. Timby seems to be the jack of all trades, master of its enemy heavy, while the Stormcrow is a nice punchy support addition to the Timby. If there is to be a Missile boat its the Warhawk in its odd form or the Mad Dog. Sadly the Mad Dog isnt even good at its own job...atleast not in the theme of MWO...

Mcgral18, on 03 January 2015 - 12:09 PM, said:

Well, PGI could give us the G STs; or even better the Q. Both are considerably out of timeline, '68 and '69, but both offer 3 Missile slots per ST, as well as a CT E slot (with a Heavy Small).

The Q also offers a Heavy Med in the LT.



I think 10 missiles could be fun.

Of course, knowing PGI....something might go terribly, terribly wrong.

Hm...mutated Mickey Mouse


Or Bugs Bunny?

Somehow, I could see that being the in game model for those torsos.....considering you somehow dug up a model image....yikes...

[Brody319]

LordKnightFandragon, on 03 January 2015 - 12:11 PM, said:

PPC boat is supposed to be the Warhawk, long range, punchy energy boat...even if it is a rather small boat. Summoner is supposed to be the Clan poptart, or agile striker heavy. Timby seems to be the jack of all trades, master of its enemy heavy, while the Stormcrow is a nice punchy support addition to the Timby. If there is to be a Missile boat its the Warhawk in its odd form or the Mad Dog. Sadly the Mad Dog isnt even good at its own job...atleast not in the theme of MWO...

Can do the catapult's job better than the catapult at least.

Also why not make it a poptart PPCer? the Warhawk is long ranged sniping, the Summoner is a poptarting sniper?

Also the Warhawk is a 85 ton assault. the Summoner is a 65 ton heavy. in CW that is a big advantage, 20 tons.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Brody319, on 03 January 2015 - 12:13 PM, said:

Can do the catapult's job better than the catapult at least.

Also why not make it a poptart PPCer? the Warhawk is long ranged sniping, the Summoner is a poptarting sniper?

Also the Warhawk is a 85 ton assault. the Summoner is a 65 ton heavy. in CW that is a big advantage, 20 tons.

Yeah, make it a PPC poptart, kinda its role is my guess. But given the insane amounts of QQ about poptarts in their day, I can see PGI not in a hurry to make that the Summoner...

[Mcgral18]

LordKnightFandragon, on 03 January 2015 - 12:12 PM, said:

Somehow, I could see that being the in game model for those torsos.....considering you somehow dug up a model image....yikes...

This was just a copy paste of that one LT missile tube; in case there was any doubt.

Torsi would make sense, but I prefer to add some insanity to it.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Mcgral18, on 03 January 2015 - 12:17 PM, said:

This was just a copy paste of that one LT missile tube; in case there was any doubt.

Torsi would make sense, but I prefer to add some insanity to it.

Ok good lol...but for some odd reason, I had a wierd feeling that might have been SUmmoner concept art somehow, done by PGI......good to know its not...