1236 replies to this topic

[Ultimax]

Wintersdark, on 02 January 2015 - 01:32 PM, said:

4 LPL is effective, so long as you avoid Ghost Heat and keep some range.

You just need to know when and where you can alpha. (unfortunately fraps missed the money shot but you get the idea I hope.)

Edited by Ultimatum X, 02 January 2015 - 01:41 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

FupDup, on 02 January 2015 - 01:14 PM, said:

It almost plays like a morbidly obese medium in some ways. It's more of a mech that prefers to stay at arm's length away from the red team and lay out damage when people poke their heads out. It plays like a more heat efficient version of Laser Vomit, with a greater emphasis on steady damage over time (even on hotter maps) over large alpha damage (like the TBR and other hotter builds). It's not going to act like a typical assault that tries to facetank and punch all the things.

Though, IIRC, you aren't a particular fan of laser vomitting (i.e. I remember that you don't like the Sparky Griffin that much, etc.)? That might explain the discrepancy here.


It's not a full-out meta robot/loadout by any means, but it has its uses and it can perform well provided that it doesn't get rushed by specialized brawlers who aren't damaged ahead of time.

so what you are saying is it is like the Summoner, Adder, Mist Lynx, Vindicator, etc.........

As long as they don't notice you, it's real good?

[LordKnightFandragon]

Ultimatum X, on 02 January 2015 - 01:40 PM, said:

You just need to know when and where you can alpha. (unfortunately fraps missed the money shot but you get the idea I hope.)

Ive been wrecking untold havoc with my 4LPL build. Getting damage numbers I never thought I would see me having accomplished. 910 in a pug game and 1 kill, though I should have had like 4 or so.....atleast 2 and prolly 3....stupid lag lol.

I wanna run the Prime with its 4 ERPPC, but those just suck.

Bishop Steiner, on 02 January 2015 - 01:52 PM, said:

so what you are saying is it is like the Summoner, Adder, Mist Lynx, Vindicator, etc.........

As long as they don't notice you, it's real good?

And no weapon/gun/tank/mech that is based around that is ever truly "good". More like, some people can manage to make it work, but its really kinda meh.

[FupDup]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 January 2015 - 01:52 PM, said:

so what you are saying is it is like the Summoner, Adder, Mist Lynx, Vindicator, etc.........

As long as they don't notice you, it's real good?

The mech seems to spread damage reasonably well most of the time. It's not an uber-tank like the Stalker but it can take a good number of hits between the parts on its upper body (sometimes attracting leg fire as well). Then again, all mechs tend to share the weakness of being vulnerable to focus-fire...

It also has a lot more damage output (both alpha and sustained DPS) than the Thor*, Puma, Koshi, and Vindi do.
*Excluding the 5 ASRM6 hyper-niche specialist loadout of course


I'm not arguing it's secretly the best assault EVAR or anything (cuz it ain't), but it can carry its weight and contribute effectively enough. Not the best, not the worst. To put it in your own words, it's "viable" but not "optimal."

Edited by FupDup, 02 January 2015 - 02:01 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

LordKnightFandragon, on 02 January 2015 - 01:57 PM, said:

And no weapon/gun/tank/mech that is based around that is ever truly "good". More like, some people can manage to make it work, but its really kinda meh.

exactly my point.

FupDup, on 02 January 2015 - 02:01 PM, said:

The mech seems to spread damage reasonably well most of the time. It's not an uber-tank like the Stalker but it can take a good number of hits between the parts on its upper body (sometimes attracting leg fire as well). Then again, all mechs tend to share the weakness of being vulnerable to focus-fire...

It also has a lot more damage output (both alpha and sustained DPS) than the Thor*, Puma, Koshi, and Vindi do.
*Excluding the 5 ASRM6 hyper-niche specialist loadout of course


I'm not arguing it's secretly the best assault EVAR or anything (cuz it ain't), but it can carry its weight and contribute effectively enough. Not the best, not the worst. To put it in your own words, it's "viable" but not "optimal."

good to know, cuz my Vindicators like to NOMNOMNOM them. And what my HBKs do to them? Can't be shown on a family channel.

[Deathlike]

FupDup, on 02 January 2015 - 01:39 PM, said:

If you can suffer through Lolcusts and Mist Stynxes, Wubhawks should be a piece of cake.

Yes, but I'm not here to waste a minimum of 45m C-bills to find out.

At this point, I'm eternally mechpoor mentally due to the Paulconomy.

Most of the C-bills will be spent on finishing the King Crab and very likely the Maddog. The Catapult-A1 seems obsoleted for the most part because of the Maddog...

Edited by Deathlike, 02 January 2015 - 02:06 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Deathlike, on 02 January 2015 - 02:03 PM, said:

Yes, but I'm not here to waste a minimum of 45m C-bills to find out.

At this point, I'm eternally mechpoor mentally due to the Paulconomy.

I thought it was Russconomy and Paulance?

[FupDup]

Deathlike, on 02 January 2015 - 02:03 PM, said:

Yes, but I'm not here to waste a minimum of 45m C-bills to find out.

At this point, I'm eternally mechpoor mentally due to the Paulconomy.

I don't buy things very often outside of preorder packs, so right now I'm somewhere between space rich and space middle class (roughly 107,189,998 spacebucks in the account right now). I haven't even tried CW yet so not having to buy 4 module sets helps...

Deathlike, on 02 January 2015 - 02:03 PM, said:

Most of the C-bills will be spent on finishing the King Crab and very likely the Maddog. The Catapult-A1 seems obsoleted for the most part because of the Maddog...

The Griffin 3M and Shad 2D2 somewhat already took the A1's job before the Mad Dawg did.

Edited by FupDup, 02 January 2015 - 02:12 PM.

[Ultimax]

FupDup, on 02 January 2015 - 02:12 PM, said:

I don't buy things very often outside of preorder packs, so right now I'm somewhere between space rich and space middle class (roughly 107,189,998 spacebucks in the account right now). I haven't even tried CW yet so not having to buy 4 module sets helps...

To be honest, you don't even need 4 module sets unless you do nothing but solo PUG CW.


Most of the time you know where the enemy team is, so Seismic isn't necessary.

Long range sniping/poke phases are so far away that you don't even need radar dep to deal with LRMs and there is plenty of cover on both sides.


I put seismic and radar dep on my lights, they tend to make the best use of it.

Aside from weapon mods, my other mechs get either whatever benefits the build (I like targeting info on my 5SS Wubbolt) or sometimes nothing at all.



Team work is vastly more important in every single aspect of CW than any given module.

[Bishop Steiner]

Boy. MAybe we can give the Summoner a nice 50% heat reduction on it's ER PPC, after all, it's fine on the THUD, right?

[FupDup]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 January 2015 - 04:00 PM, said:

Boy. MAybe we can give the Summoner a nice 50% heat reduction on it's ER PPC, after all, it's fine on the THUD, right?

I wish we could be drastic enough to give mechs like the Thor access to "Lostech" 15 direct damage ERPPCs. Now THAT would be worthy of being called Thor's hammer Mjolnir.


Of course, the "splash" (PGI calls it that in the XMLs but in reality it's not "real" splash...) would have to be set to 0, or else we'd have them doing 20 total damage...

It might actually be codeable with quirks, too, it would just require different syntax than the generic +cooldown and -heat quirks. Well, at least the damage might be quirkable, but I dunno if quirks can modify the "splash."


I really want that on the Puma too. Also add in -90% ERPPC heat for the (B)Adder, just because of reasons.

Edited by FupDup, 02 January 2015 - 04:06 PM.

[Deathlike]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 January 2015 - 02:05 PM, said:

I thought it was Russconomy and Paulance?

I'm pretty sure Paulfare (Paul + Warfare) is the new term? Paulance is coming from what?

I'm still reeling from the Mech Depression of 3049.

FupDup, on 02 January 2015 - 02:12 PM, said:

I don't buy things very often outside of preorder packs, so right now I'm somewhere between space rich and space middle class (roughly 107,189,998 spacebucks in the account right now). I haven't even tried CW yet so not having to buy 4 module sets helps...

Space middle class is nice. CW does actually speed C-bill gains quite enough (as long as the team is on defense and is competent). 1m potential per game is really nice.

Quote

The Griffin 3M and Shad 2D2 somewhat already took the A1's job before the Mad Dawg did.

Quite.

Ultimatum X, on 02 January 2015 - 02:18 PM, said:

To be honest, you don't even need 4 module sets unless you do nothing but solo PUG CW.

I almost always need it.. at least Seismic anyways.

Quote

Most of the time you know where the enemy team is, so Seismic isn't necessary.

Noooo. Every single time I can detect a cave rush on Forest, it's almost always worth it (and then some). Seismic Wallhack is still powerful.

Quote

Long range sniping/poke phases are so far away that you don't even need radar dep to deal with LRMs and there is plenty of cover on both sides.

Seen a lot more UAVs, but it's hard to get people to LRM stuff if people don't spot their targets (I don't use LRMs, so don't bother me about it).

Quote

I put seismic and radar dep on my lights, they tend to make the best use of it.

I use it on EVERYTHING.

Quote

Aside from weapon mods, my other mechs get either whatever benefits the build (I like targeting info on my 5SS Wubbolt) or sometimes nothing at all.

Not tempted to buy those mechs a set of weapon mods... yet.

Quote

Team work is vastly more important in every single aspect of CW than any given module.

Perhaps, but there's an edge that exists for not having some of them (particularly Seismic). People who don't maximize its uses will never understand. I use it too much if not arguably dependent on it (more than Radar Dep/Derp).

Edited by Deathlike, 02 January 2015 - 04:06 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

FupDup, on 02 January 2015 - 04:04 PM, said:

I wish we could be drastic enough to give mechs like the Thor access to "Lostech" 15 direct damage ERPPCs. Now THAT would be worthy of being called Thor's hammer Mjolnir.


Of course, the "splash" (PGI calls it that in the XMLs but in reality it's not "real" splash...) would have to be set to 0, or else we'd have them doing 20 total damage...

It might actually be codeable with quirks, too, it would just require different syntax than the generic +cooldown and -heat quirks. Well, at least the damage might be quirkable, but I dunno if quirks can modify the "splash."


I really want that on the Puma too. Also add in -90% ERPPC heat for the (B)Adder, just because of reasons.

considering the other issues with the Summoner, would having a 15+5 dmg PPC really be unbalancing?

[Mcgral18]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 January 2015 - 04:08 PM, said:

considering the other issues with the Summoner, would having a 15+5 dmg PPC really be unbalancing?

Depends on implementation.

Prime arm only? Of course not; a powerful particle cannon. A trio of them? Hot, but also very devastating....borderline, but 2 are usable to an effective degree.

Ferret and Badder deserve that power. Though, heat could be used on the Adder as well, in place of the damage.

[FupDup]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 January 2015 - 04:08 PM, said:

considering the other issues with the Summoner, would having a 15+5 dmg PPC really be unbalancing?

It's debatable.

If we could somehow contain that buff to just the ERPPC mounted in the Prime right arm, we'd probably be fine. If it applied to any ERPPC on the mech, then people would run around with 2 ERPPCs in the Alternate D's left arm while carrying the Prime's right arm just for the quirks. There's some left over pod space for assessories like maybe carrying an ASRM6 and a MPL (or whatever) for minor close defense.

At that point the build would basically be an energy Gaussjag/Gausscat with quite a bit more mobility and durability, and "maybe" slightly more self-defense in close range depending on the exact loadout. It would be riding the borderline unless we contained the quirk to the Prime RA...

Alternatively, a way to do that might be to have the quirk only activate when matched with the Prime's ballistic Left Arm (similar coding as the +XP bonus for a full set?). Or maybe even go full monty and attach the bonus to the entire Prime set (and do this for future Omnimech quirks that are drastic?).

Edited by FupDup, 02 January 2015 - 04:25 PM.

[Brody319]

Give it 2 STs with 3 Energy slots each.
Then give it -50% heat generation.

boom perfect mech.

[FupDup]

Brody319, on 02 January 2015 - 04:23 PM, said:

Give it 2 STs with 3 Energy slots each.
Then give it -50% heat generation.

boom perfect mech.

Nicolai Malthus would approve.

[Ultimax]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 January 2015 - 04:00 PM, said:

Boy. MAybe we can give the Summoner a nice 50% heat reduction on it's ER PPC, after all, it's fine on the THUD, right?

I think we'll likely see a -heat reduction for CERPPCs on the Summoner when Clans get their actual quirks implemented.

I doubt it will be as large a reduction, as the Summoner does have 5x JJs, massively better agility, runs at 93kph and starts with almost as many DHS as a maxed out 9S can get (Honestly I'm pretty excited about the Summoner's current maneuverability)

I'd be happy to see a CERPPC buff to one of the arms though as well as that energy LT that McGral did a mock up of drawing from the gamefiles.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 02 January 2015 - 04:45 PM.

[Brody319]

lets just hope PGI handles the Clan quirks differently from the IS ones. if they do factor in JJs, then the Lynx, Summoner, Nova, and well...every mech that really needs quirks the most are going to get ****** over.

[Bishop Steiner]

Ultimatum X, on 02 January 2015 - 04:44 PM, said:

I think we'll likely see a -heat reduction for CERPPCs on the Summoner when Clans get their actual quirks implemented.

I doubt it will be as large a reduction, as the Summoner does have 5x JJs, massively better agility, runs at 93kph and starts with almost as many DHS as a maxed out 9S can get (Honestly I'm pretty excited about the Summoner's current maneuverability)

I'd be happy to see a CERPPC buff to one of the arms though as well as that energy LT that McGral did a mock up of drawing from the gamefiles.

I'd be a lot more excited to find a way to squeeze more missiles into the torso. Running something like a 3xsrm4, 2 Mlaser RA and LB-X LA would at least be fun.

But not enough, to be "competitive", unfortunately. KI still don't see where any 1 single thing will be enough to make it work, even with the current agility. Think it mostly needs a lot of little things.


But have still seen zero solid reasons why not to do a Robin Hood and give to the poor, with some Endo. They already relented on armor values, and then bent things to give the Hellbringer more armor in place of the A-Pods.

Brody319, on 02 January 2015 - 04:49 PM, said:

lets just hope PGI handles the Clan quirks differently from the IS ones. if they do factor in JJs, then the Lynx, Summoner, Nova, and well...every mech that really needs quirks the most are going to get ****** over.

It's still a point of frustration for me that they count the JJs against the HGN and VTR.... when on both of them they are all but useless. At least the Summoner is a decent (stress...not good, but decent) jumper.