558 replies to this topic

[Black Ivan]

IraqiWalker, on 18 June 2015 - 02:03 AM, said:

That's not what we want. A lot of solo players are good players, and they should be in CW. No one is saying remove the solo players from CW. I'm saying "if you don't use teamwork, and coordinate, you'll keep losing, and a solo only queue won't change that. Also, this is a mode that has units, and groups as it's center piece, stop trying to make it into the public queue 2.0"

No offence taken . I just heard some more hardcore voices during the last days pointing to that idea.

[HerHareHair]

Kin3ticX, on 18 June 2015 - 05:44 PM, said:

Small item. There are also solos playing CW that don't even care. They just want one or two mechbays and they are gone or switching factions. Perhaps those rewards need to scale tougher in the early LP phase.

And why they are doing it? Currently, there's no other reliable method (short of CC) to unlock 10 Mech bays in 1 month. Give us alternative methods of earning Mech bays and MCs and we won't be "polluting" your game mode with trial Mechs.

Putting them higher down LP list would only mean I will have to drop in CW more often. And for your reference I do follow orders, if there are any.

As you can see, those players, cannot join an outfit, as we're not with any Faction long enough to warrant that. Maybe when the Mercs come out... And so we solo drop.

[IraqiWalker]

Black Ivan, on 18 June 2015 - 10:26 PM, said:

No offence taken . I just heard some more hardcore voices during the last days pointing to that idea.

I've heard those too, and they really need to be ignored. CW should allow everyone to jump in (provided they have decent mechs, and not trial mechs. Preferably 4 fully elited/mastered mechs in their deck)

Telmasa, on 18 June 2015 - 11:51 PM, said:

Is anybody even playing CW anymore?

Yeah, there are still lots of people playing it. Nowhere near the populations we had in Beta 1, but still enough to keep things interesting. Although time zones are a bigger impact now, due to reduced numbers.

[Jon Gotham]

Triordinant, on 18 June 2015 - 12:04 PM, said:

I actually agree with this. People playing CW the same way they play in the public solo queue is almost never going to result in success. That's why I stay out of CW altogether. Not only will I not have fun in CW, but I'll be gimping my team so they won't have fun either. I might play CW if I created my own 12-man team of handpicked, highly trained and supremely dedicated mechwarriors, but unless I win a $100 million lottery that's not happening.

Those demanding that CW become more like the public queues are barking up the wrong tree. What they should be doing is asking PGI to improve the player experience in the public queues instead. I question the wisdom of PGI allocating so much time, money and effort into CW since it only appeals to 15% or less of the playerbase, but what's done is done. Time to shift all effort into the queues the other 85% play in.

That makes me wonder. If PGI had improved the public queues FIRST with new modes (escort missions, destroy the building, rolling spawn points across a huge map by capture, etc.) and new maps, maybe there wouldn't be a shipload of soloists trying to change CW to their liking because they're bored stiff by the same stale gameplay in the public queues that hasn't changed in over a year.

I think this is the second ever post I agree with you y'know? I think modern mmo players have become used to being pandered too they feel entitled when things don't feel designed to cater to them specifically.
I like to play with other people and really do not enjoy playing game solo-looks like I'm in that wierdo minority that likes to socialize with others:)
I feel PGI did not really understand the modern gamer when they laid out the ideas for CW, still if they had I'd not be here as I would not have lasted my first 25 games:) Already played enough solo fests:(

[Mr Hunter]

The issue is everyone and their dog wants everything to exist perfectly. This is not the case..
WELCOME TO BATTLETECH! The clans are better in almost every way! Deal with it! Dont whine about it. Nobody cares and you look like a fool. When I'm fighting a Mad cat I want it to be a challange. I should not be more afraid of a Firestarter or a Huggin. Also the lack of communication..but that goes with out saying just play a match of CW and you will see what I mean.

[Flutterguy]

Telmasa, on 19 June 2015 - 01:14 PM, said:

9 times out of 10, when I look in the faction tab, there's either nobody or a single pair of 12 man teams squaring off on some planet, and that's it. Nobody else playing CW.

That's because the Ghost Bears are pretty much a dead faction. CJF tends to have 50 to 80 people out during peak hours and can usually expect to not end up with a ghost drop.

[IraqiWalker]

B8hunter, on 19 June 2015 - 01:48 PM, said:

The issue is everyone and their dog wants everything to exist perfectly. This is not the case..
WELCOME TO BATTLETECH! The clans are better in almost every way! Deal with it! Dont whine about it. Nobody cares and you look like a fool. When I'm fighting a Mad cat I want it to be a challange. I should not be more afraid of a Firestarter or a Huggin. Also the lack of communication..but that goes with out saying just play a match of CW and you will see what I mean.

Yeah ... except this is a PVP game where things need to be balanced. Do we REALLY need to go through explaining this again?

[Mr Hunter]

IraqiWalker, on 19 June 2015 - 05:08 PM, said:

Yeah ... except this is a PVP game where things need to be balanced. Do we REALLY need to go through explaining this again?

I understand that MWO is pvp but I really don't like a bunch of whining forum warriors complaining about how powerful the clans are. Lets ignore the fact that there autocannons are....unique at best the lrms are again sub par. And yet people still whine.

[IraqiWalker]

B8hunter, on 19 June 2015 - 05:59 PM, said:

I understand that MWO is pvp but I really don't like a bunch of whining forum warriors complaining about how powerful the clans are. Lets ignore the fact that there autocannons are....unique at best the lrms are again sub par. And yet people still whine.

I'm not going to derail this thread into another "This is how these things balance out" thread, but if you want to discuss it, PM me, and I'd be happy to share my thoughts and ideas, and listen to yours.

Edited by IraqiWalker, 19 June 2015 - 06:56 PM.

[YCSLiesmith]

IraqiWalker, on 19 June 2015 - 05:08 PM, said:

Yeah ... except this is a PVP game where things need to be balanced. Do we REALLY need to go through explaining this again?

uuuh, welcome to battletech iraqi walker. where all your complaints and valid criticisms mean you Just Dont Get It

B8hunter, on 19 June 2015 - 05:59 PM, said:

I understand that MWO is pvp but I really don't like a bunch of whining forum warriors complaining about how powerful the clans are. Lets ignore the fact that there autocannons are....unique at best the lrms are again sub par. And yet people still whine.

wow BBWHunter, you're right! two irrelevant weapons no one who is interested in winning uses are not any good, this surely makes up for the fact that lasers and gauss weapons, the only weapons you'll ever see competitive players using, are manifestly better on the clan side.

i hear a rumor that clan flamers are way stronger than IS flamers, this will definitely impact the balance of the game if true. unfortunately it's unconfirmable since no one has ever used flamers on either side

Edited by YCSLiesmith, 20 June 2015 - 10:18 AM.

[Hoffburger]

Imagine if solo queue and group queue were allowed to intermingle in League of Legends or DotA. There would be the biggest shitfit in the history of shitfits. Not having a solo queue for CW is the sole reason why I refuse to play it (other than when they force you to like the current Summer Event).

[IraqiWalker]

Hoffburger, on 20 June 2015 - 01:19 PM, said:

Imagine if solo queue and group queue were allowed to intermingle in League of Legends or DotA. There would be the biggest shitfit in the history of shitfits. Not having a solo queue for CW is the sole reason why I refuse to play it (other than when they force you to like the current Summer Event).

Except those games really don't work like this one.

Saying CW has MOBA-like maps does not equate CW to a MOBA. Warthunder has maps that would work great on a turn based strategy game. Does that mean WarThunder is a turn based strategy game?

CW is a mode with units, and groups at it's core. So you should be expecting that.

In addition: Didn't many of you Founders (and non, founders, but founders especially) post endless threads about how this game is becoming less of a sim, and more of an FPS? Now that you have a mode that is closer to simulating BT battles than any other game, or mode has done before, you don't want it?

I'll tell you what, when MW:O has a player population in the neighberhood of 250,000, we can talk about splitting queue again, although I'll bet the answer would still be: Nope, it's ineffective, and eliminates the whole point of queuing to begin with, and makes it even easier for groups to farm solos.

[Fenrisian Wolf]

I dont think CW is being ruined I just think a lot of players have a defeatist attitude and don't really understand how it all.... well works I have seen PUGS beat 12 mans and I have seen 12 man's **** Pugs. Want to talk about something getting ruined... the reg matches are being ruined by LRM spamming. LRM spamming takes little to no skill and with enough mechs firing you can easily strip and kill a mech plus the reg maps don't provide a lot of overhead cover.

[YCSLiesmith]

Fenrisian Wolf, on 20 June 2015 - 04:34 PM, said:

I dont think CW is being ruined I just think a lot of players have a defeatist attitude and don't really understand how it all.... well works I have seen PUGS beat 12 mans and I have seen 12 man's **** Pugs. Want to talk about something getting ruined... the reg matches are being ruined by LRM spamming. LRM spamming takes little to no skill and with enough mechs firing you can easily strip and kill a mech plus the reg maps don't provide a lot of overhead cover.

I'm sorry but if you are dealing with LRMs at all you're at a really low ELO and can't comment on the state of the competitive game in an informed or useful way. Even the people itt who think that LRMs are somehow not useless will concede that they don't see any use in CW or at high ELO.

[Telmasa]

Flutterguy, on 19 June 2015 - 02:34 PM, said:

That's because the Ghost Bears are pretty much a dead faction. CJF tends to have 50 to 80 people out during peak hours and can usually expect to not end up with a ghost drop.

:\ That does make sense...going the way CW is going now, I'm not sure about a way around that...barring everyone becomming contract-swapping mercs all the time.

Edited by Telmasa, 20 June 2015 - 11:40 PM.

[Jon Gotham]

YCSLiesmith, on 20 June 2015 - 07:00 PM, said:

I'm sorry but if you are dealing with LRMs at all you're at a really low ELO and can't comment on the state of the competitive game in an informed or useful way. Even the people itt who think that LRMs are somehow not useless will concede that they don't see any use in CW or at high ELO.

I hate to say it, I run into people at your level in regular queue and still see lrm spammers. These flippin' silly comps tend to bring them out in spades. Usually 80+ ton spammers too. If you have 4 lrm lobbers the rule is usually just one of them is halfway competent.

[stratagos]

I am failing to see the problem

The players in the units made it as clear as they could be: join a unit or we'll stomp/farm you

The expectation they presumably had was that people would choose to group up, and they would have more challenging opposition. Except some people simply aren't *interested* in grouping up, for a thousand different reasons.

Now there is a very small CW population, since the majority of players in MWO are pugging it



Isn't that what you *wanted* guys? You worked damn hard to make it so Pugs steered clear of CW, and you successfully delivered that message. Congrats on your glorious victory.

If that means you have no one to play against, well, I fail to see how that's the concern of people who aren't interested in CW any longer.

[Kin3ticX]

stratagos, on 21 June 2015 - 08:11 AM, said:

I am failing to see the problem

The players in the units made it as clear as they could be: join a unit or we'll stomp/farm you

The expectation they presumably had was that people would choose to group up, and they would have more challenging opposition. Except some people simply aren't *interested* in grouping up, for a thousand different reasons.

Now there is a very small CW population, since the majority of players in MWO are pugging it



Isn't that what you *wanted* guys? You worked damn hard to make it so Pugs steered clear of CW, and you successfully delivered that message. Congrats on your glorious victory.

If that means you have no one to play against, well, I fail to see how that's the concern of people who aren't interested in CW any longer.

Maybe you are right. I actually want to blame units before ignorant solos. A lot of the comp units don't play CW because its like PVE for them. A lot of other units got burned out for this or that reason. From observation, a lot of them are not very adaptable and have anti CW meta attitudes. Really does seem like the solos are the only thing holding it together right now.

There is a cloud of defeatism and anti-learning curve lurking about CW.

[IraqiWalker]

stratagos, on 21 June 2015 - 08:11 AM, said:

I am failing to see the problem

The players in the units made it as clear as they could be: join a unit or we'll stomp/farm you

The expectation they presumably had was that people would choose to group up, and they would have more challenging opposition. Except some people simply aren't *interested* in grouping up, for a thousand different reasons.

Now there is a very small CW population, since the majority of players in MWO are pugging it



Isn't that what you *wanted* guys? You worked damn hard to make it so Pugs steered clear of CW, and you successfully delivered that message. Congrats on your glorious victory.

If that means you have no one to play against, well, I fail to see how that's the concern of people who aren't interested in CW any longer.

Pretty sure that's not what we're saying. Most of us have been saying, from day 1: Coordinate, or you clearly won't win.

It doesn't matter if it's solo vs. solo, or solo vs. group. The team that coordinates wins. I've seen 12 mans get rolled by complete solo teams. Because someone had their head on their shoulders, and knew what to do, and the other 11, for the most part, followed with the plan.

[Telmasa]

IraqiWalker, on 21 June 2015 - 06:19 PM, said:

Pretty sure that's not what we're saying. Most of us have been saying, from day 1: Coordinate, or you clearly won't win.

It doesn't matter if it's solo vs. solo, or solo vs. group. The team that coordinates wins. I've seen 12 mans get rolled by complete solo teams. Because someone had their head on their shoulders, and knew what to do, and the other 11, for the most part, followed with the plan.

I don't really agree. I've seen this happen plenty enough without any kind of coordination (at least that I observed). I think the difference is much simpler:
There's players who are here to shoot mechs.
There's other players that are here to see their mechs move, make noises, and make pretty lights and explosions happen...and who are afraid of being shot at.

Both kinds of players group up, form clans, play CW, or whatever else. Sometimes a group of the latter kind runs up against a team of solo players who mostly fall into the former category.

Seems to me so long as we're stuck on DOTA maps with superquirk'd-unrestricted-hardpoint-meta & 12v12 deathball/zerg-or-lose gameplay, it's going to remain this way.