257 replies to this topic

[VoodooLou Kerensky]

Well a interesting point was brought to my attention on Twitter Im going to copy/pasta the convo here n let y'all decide whats up.

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  VXJaeger ‏[color=#B1BBC3]@[/color]VXJaeger Oct 24
  [color=#BDA3E0]@[/color]russ_bullock Fastest way to balance:make clan-XL behave like IS-XL when damaged, and f**k BT-rules.
  
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  VXJaeger ‏[color=#B1BBC3]@[/color]VXJaeger Oct 24
  [color=#BDA3E0]@[/color]russ_bullock Clans would still have advantage of weapon range and omnipod-system.
  
  
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  VXJaeger ‏[color=#B1BBC3]@[/color]VXJaeger Oct 24
  [color=#BDA3E0]@[/color]russ_bullock Obscure that when you shoot 1/3 mechs engine away, it still attacks you like in full health. And in case of clanmechs...
  

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  VXJaeger ‏[color=#B1BBC3]@[/color]VXJaeger Oct 24
  [color=#BDA3E0]@[/color]russ_bullock ...it still can carry weapons for over 40pts pinpoint-alpha.
  
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  VXJaeger ‏[color=#B1BBC3]@[/color]VXJaeger Oct 24
  [color=#BDA3E0]@[/color]russ_bullock I could accept that if c-mech loses its sidetorso, its speed will drop to 1/3 of maximum because of major engine damage.
  
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  VXJaeger ‏[color=#B1BBC3]@[/color]VXJaeger Oct 24
  [color=#BDA3E0]@[/color]russ_bullock So c-mechs won't die, but they lose speed vital to their survival and power of attack. F.ex TBR 89kph->29kph.
  

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  VXJaeger ‏[color=#B1BBC3]@[/color]VXJaeger Oct 24
  [color=#BDA3E0]@[/color]russ_bullock SCR 106 -> 35 etc. Lose side torso = lose 2/3 of yer speed among weaponary and ese what you had in there.
  
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  VXJaeger ‏[color=#B1BBC3]@[/color]VXJaeger Oct 24
  [color=#BDA3E0]@[/color]russ_bullock Ain't I lucky that no one reads these rants of mine.
  
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  Russ Bullock ‏[color=#B1BBC3]@[/color]russ_bullock 22h22 hours ago
  [color=#BDA3E0]@[/color]VXJaeger yah You know this has been on the radar - will mention it again internally Monday
  
  

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  VXJaeger ‏[color=#B1BBC3]@[/color]VXJaeger 6h6 hours ago
  [color=#BDA3E0]@[/color]russ_bullock Can't ask for more, thank you sir.
  
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  VoodooLou ‏[color=#B1BBC3]@[/color]VoodooLou1 22m22 minutes ago
  [color=#BDA3E0]@[/color]VXJaeger [color=#BDA3E0]@[/color]russ_bullock Wonderful. So does this mean that I can ask for a refund? 'Hey lets F**k over ppl who pay more for mechs!
  

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  VXJaeger ‏[color=#B1BBC3]@[/color]VXJaeger 19m19 minutes ago
  [color=#BDA3E0]@[/color]VoodooLou1 [color=#BDA3E0]@[/color]russ_bullock To me it means that you are pityful derp who cannot compete without OP-engines, dunno 'bout Russ.

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VoodooLou‏[color=#8899A6][color=#B1BBC3]@[/color]VoodooLou1[/color]

[color=#BDA3E0]@[/color]VXJaeger [color=#BDA3E0]@[/color]russ_bullock Better to scrap Clan mechs altogether n refund everyones money who bought them





[color=#8899A6]10:11 AM - 25 Oct 2015[/color]
VoodooLou ‏[color=#B1BBC3]@[/color]VoodooLou1 22m
22 minutes ago
[color=#BDA3E0]@[/color]VXJaeger [color=#BDA3E0]@[/color]russ_bullock To me it means that when I pay more for a CB than both a marauder and warhammer pack combined Ive been F**cked[/color]

Edited by VoodooLou Kerensky, 25 October 2015 - 12:25 PM.

[CoffiNail]

Honestly I agree. They have our money, IIC Clan Battlemechs are coming soon and will be the meta and really give the lore a backwards spin. So now they can really hit the nerfhammer on the Clantech. Soon there will be no difference aside from quirks to the mechs. IN THE HOLY NAME OF BALANCE

Soon Clans and IS will be balanced to perfection and there will be no difference to the factions aside from the logo you have assigned. Then it will be ready to put on to steam for the CoD masses to consume.

Well done.

Though Voodoolou you could really use to format that if you want people to read it.

Edited by CoffiNail, 25 October 2015 - 11:10 AM.

[shameless]

they do this I'd as for refunds my currently not received purchases, because that's bs. The IS does get tech that balances the clans advantages, further into the timeline.

[VoodooLou Kerensky]

Its pure unadulterated copy pasta I couldve just supplied a link but then ppl would have to make a twitter account n yadda yadda.
PGI's Word of the Day Monday will be 'ClannersButtCheeks' followed by Spread the Word.

CoffiNail, on 25 October 2015 - 11:09 AM, said:

Honestly I agree. They have our money, IIC Clan Battlemechs are coming soon and will be the meta and really give the lore a backwards spin. So now they can really hit the nerfhammer on the Clantech. Soon there will be no difference aside from quirks to the mechs. IN THE HOLY NAME OF BALANCE

Soon Clans and IS will be balanced to perfection and there will be no difference to the factions aside from the logo you have assigned. Then it will be ready to put on to steam for the CoD masses to consume.

Well done.

Though Voodoolou you could really use to format that if you want people to read it.

[BLOOD WOLF]

soome of you can learn some tact when talking.

When my Clan jumps into CW matches we can have some very intense matches. people also do not run all meta. As a matter of fact it comes to a huge interest when someone gets high damage scores with personal builds

some of you are wanting a balance from purely personal viewpoinnts, and others are legitiment concernes.

Get out the bubble(for some)

Edited by BLOOD WOLF, 25 October 2015 - 12:28 PM.

[VoodooLou Kerensky]

Thank you for your critique. The management will take this into consideration. Please stay on the line and a Clan Black Sheep representative will handle your call. Por espanol marque dos.

[Davegt27]

I hope you guys are not bugging Russ on his off work time?

[Davers]

Clans and IS cannot be shoehorned into a traditional FPS like MWO without completely changing how Clan mechs work. PGI should have known this before taking it on. Huge sweeping changes are very unfair, especially this late in development, when we are on our 4th Clan pack.

PGI should have realized that Clan XL engines were too powerful to have a straight 12v12 game. If they are forced to add LFE, then they should have started at a later era. They could have still sold all the same mechs and not lost revenue, while appearing to actually understand the franchise they licensed.

[Bespoke Cheese Cake]

I started a thread on a related Clan OP topic and have yet to see a response. As I pointed out on Twitter "I got 6 kills in a Locust the day, Locust OP PGI plz fix". Clearly this is absurd the Locust is not overpowered, but the point is these people are never happy. If it's not clan XL then its ECM and if it's not that it's LRMs etc, etc.

Now of course someone is going to find this offensive and say "Bespoke how dare you I have legitimate concerns about Clan mechs!" To which I reply "excellent, prove me wrong".

[Mcgral18]

Whether you like it or not, Normalizing engines is the way to go.


Buffing the STD engine appropriately at the same time. Give isXLs larger penalties, but not death.

[MischiefSC]

Some people will ask for refunds because they only bought Clan tech because it was op. They wanted to buy an advantage, that's it. The Clan/IS balance at Clan release was horrible, designed for PvE and the original TT developers apologized for it. It was so bad they nuked the game universe (WoB) so they could start over with balanced tech.

We don't need to repeat the worst mistakes of the franchise. I get that people will be bitter about losing a broken advantage. They never wanted fair, they wanted to play with a significant advantage and have a recognized (if bad) excuse for doing so.

The real problem is that they waited 2 years to fix this stupidly broken facet of the game. As they're not refunding mechs bought on the auspices of broken op quirks or the Poptart meta I don't expect them to refund Clan mechs purchased under the auspices of perpetually broken clan/IS balance.

[CoffiNail]

Davegt27, on 25 October 2015 - 01:19 PM, said:

I hope you guys are not bugging Russ on his off work time?

I retweet things here and there and respond to other people, but I have not bothered Russ for a while. I decided it was no longer worth bugging him when he only has Inner Sphere players on the mind.

Davers, on 25 October 2015 - 01:23 PM, said:

Clans and IS cannot be shoehorned into a traditional FPS like MWO without completely changing how Clan mechs work. PGI should have known this before taking it on. Huge sweeping changes are very unfair, especially this late in development, when we are on our 4th Clan pack.

PGI should have realized that Clan XL engines were too powerful to have a straight 12v12 game. If they are forced to add LFE, then they should have started at a later era. They could have still sold all the same mechs and not lost revenue, while appearing to actually understand the franchise they licensed.

Honestly. What I REALLY think PGI should do right now? Jump with CGL and hop to the 32nd Century. They have a lot of advanced tech and things are at a closer 'balance' when it comes to a lot of things...Would at least give credibility that the tech has advanced some in the 100 years or so. Also gives them unparalleled access to chassis of all sorts.

It was a great idea they had at one point maybe. Bringing the Clans in, recreating the feeling of 3050 invasion/ OP:Revival... but sadly it really seems Russ was more in the line of a fan of MechWarrior 4 vs Battletech. Yeah this is a better game than CoD clones and such... but there really is only minor diffences between a regular FPS and this game. Problem is when founders tossed our money in we were hoping it was going to be a MechWarrior Simulator, not our 'fathers' MechWarrior because it was going to be advanced and doing things a 1990s game could not do... not because it would be dumbed down so the lower denomiter can have a lot of fun.

They had a huge, HUGE chance to make this game a fantastic game, that would have ranked in the cash and players because of the concept. Many of us still are not sure where our dollars went. My worries are that MWO funds have been fueling the work of another game PGI has in development. We already know they tried to make another game already. The new features come in slowly, maps development moves slowly. The volunteer developers of Wandering Samurai had a faster turn out rate (aside from mechs, PGI knows how to crank the mechs out) then PGI did... they were small and all on volunteer personal time.

The core player base enjoys the lore, the people that have been playing for years have either loved the lore or found it because of MWO... There was no reason they could not have made the Clan a more 'elite' faction. They could have made a very immersive MechWarrior Simulator, instead they went with the dollar sign and dumbed the possibilities and focused on the everybody vs the gamer... who, you know plays more games.

[CoffiNail]

MischiefSC, on 25 October 2015 - 02:17 PM, said:

Some people will ask for refunds because they only bought Clan tech because it was op. They wanted to buy an advantage, that's it. The Clan/IS balance at Clan release was horrible, designed for PvE and the original TT developers apologized for it. It was so bad they nuked the game universe (WoB) so they could start over with balanced tech.

Some people were looking forward to the challenge of being Clan. 10 vs 12. Power creep would be subsided by the average player due to always being at a numbers disadvantage. Extra range, lower heat and lower tonnage only go so far if you have a lance or two of mechs all shooting at you. They could have made it where the Clans were awarded extra 'bonus/honour' points for focusing on duels between single mechs, bringing lighter mechs, targetting heavier mechs, etc. Instead they threw the whole meaning and aspect and challenge that could have been for the Clans out the window to simplify it all, because it is a risk to make a niche game... It is better for the business to make a game that can cater to as many people as possible.

Yes, there are some who wanted the tech advantage, but there were ways around power creep, just like there were ways around boating that did not require ghost heat.

There is another quirk of PGI... wanting to simplify the game, make it accessible to more people, yet they toss in things like Ghost Heat, there were tons of good ideas the community gave to circumvent boating mechs, there were a few excellent ideas for it, instead they went with the mystery thoughts of ghost heat.

Edited by CoffiNail, 25 October 2015 - 02:25 PM.

[Tarl Cabot]

Since there are no actual engine crits (3crits=engine destroyed) applying that only to IS XL engines does cause a severe imbalance. IS XL engine should survive the loss of side torso, even if that meant the need to add case to each side (clans already come case included).

As for penalties, besides the heat penalty there was mentioned speed penalty. 66% is too harsh though, considering the heat penalty is not harsh at all.

Clan XL - 20% heat / 20-30% speed reduction
IS XL - 30% heat / 30-40% speed reduction
LFE - 25% heat / 25-35% speed reduction (if engine ever introduced)
Standard (IS/CLAN) no loss of speed nor heat penalty


The speed reductions has been part of BT due to heat but PGI has not implemented even a simplified version of it, only the max thresold. The above would be similar to ghost heat, the heat scale is being applied to specific settings instead of the general base line.

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 25 October 2015 - 02:57 PM.

[Odanan]

The Clan XL Engines not being destroyed by the loss of one side torso is maybe the greatest mistake of the Battletech designers. It really changes things. Like the DHS, any technology in Battletech that makes another completely obsolete, is bad for balance.

In IS, you need to weight (no pun intended) the advantages and risks of fielding a XL Engine. With the Clan XL, taking the Std. Engine is just foolish.

I agree PGI should add some penalty (other than heat) to the Omnimechs losing a side torso. With the Clan Battlemechs coming soon, there must be some advantage (even if minor) to use the Standard over the XL Engine.

And seriously? Asking for refunds because PGI is trying to make the game fair for all players is BS.

Edited by Odanan, 26 October 2015 - 09:31 AM.

[Waffles 2pt0]

Puglandia:
12 v 12 and Clan tech exactly equals IS tech. Dmg, heat, slots, rate of fire, burn time, number of bullets per "shot", etc... All exactly the same.

Group Queue:
12 v 10 and Clan tech better than IS tech. With strict tech base composition per team.

CW:
12 v 10 and Clan tech better than IS tech. With strict tech base composition per team. As usual.

Does this = Balance?

Edited by IIII The Smiling Bandit IIII, 25 October 2015 - 03:43 PM.

[Cowboy1]

What the IS guys are not taking into account, is that Clans can't modify their engines. I like the idea of letting IS use cases to make their engines act like clan engines. I also like the reduction in mech speed when a torso is blown on the XL engines.

[Ninjah]

I have to say that the game is pretty well balanced at the moment. I play both sides and have no complaints.

[BLOOD WOLF]

Ninjah, on 25 October 2015 - 03:45 PM, said:

I have to say that the game is pretty well balanced at the moment. I play both sides and have no complaints.

I dont understand how some players say balanced and others say it's unbalanced. Yet others act as if there are no differing thoughts on the issue. I am inclined to agree with you.

[MischiefSC]

10 v 12 was never viable. Even pgi said so out of the gate.

Locked engines (and structure) is what balances the lower weight and crit slots on Clan gear. If it was normalized for size/weight then I'm all for unlocking Clan mechs. IIC mechs are already like that to a degree and potentially outmoded all existing Clan mechs.

Assuming it normalizes another way then I'd be all for something like swapping an xl for an equal tonnage STD engine. The point being that tonnage lockup is what offsets 1/2 weight es,ff, missiles, etc. Same sort of issue with locked slots but smaller equipment.

Currently though the xl speed/tonnage saving but std durability is pretty broken.

Edited by MischiefSC, 25 October 2015 - 04:13 PM.