207 replies to this topic

[SlXSlXSlX]

Arcadian Xero, on 23 February 2013 - 02:29 PM, said:

Took your advice... made an alt account and am having a blast with my trial Atlas... Sadly I made it into the upper ELO brackets and all the cheese is starting to show up...

Let me tell you though... You were right about a lot of 4 man pilots being GARBAGE lol. It's a sad sad day when a trial Atlas accounts for 4 of the teams kills, and tops the score board against a 4 man. Lol'z were had.

However now that I am seeing all those optimal builds I am going to let my Elo rating tank and go back to the fun games... Where there is variety, and I can relax, and take off my try hard pants.

I am glad you are enjoying the game. You will stay w/ MWO longer, enjoying it. PGI should be happy, and your happy. Good for you. Tank your stats and do it again, and when you want a serious challenge, your main account isnt far away. See you on the field.

o7

[wwiiogre]

SixSixSix,

very well stated first post, I have nothing I can say to disagree with that. It was perfectly formulated and well thought out.

job well done.

Chris

[Karl Split]

Id take the op more seriously if he didnt jump into other threads where people raise points about flaws in the current implementation of ELO and start trolling tbh 3/10, try harder.

Although why I bother responding to someone who thinks a name like 666 makes him edgy and different is beyond me guess I just fell for the troll in another way 4/10 then, could still use work.

[wwiiogre]

Since I am an Iron Maiden fan, the name does not bother me and I choose to not let covers predispose me to one opinion or another. I weigh the thoughts put out, the reasoning and then make a decision.

Chris

[F lan Ker]

S!

Have not been losing any more than before ELO. Matches are tougher for sure, but who cares. Game is a game. Lose or win, just press LAUNCH and go again.

[Gammanoob]

I am having fun, despite occasionally annoying mismatches in weight or player quality, there are actually challenging, fun matches now.

[Lazydrones541]

Must say I enjoyed this post. I play because I enjoy MWO not because I can pugstomp or because I get facerolled by a 3L chicken peck fest.

I most definitely have enjoyed the new Elo/MM system and can say that i ABSOLUTELY LOVE it when there is a game that is 8:6/7 deaths. It means the game was challenging and I had fun. A majority of the time I play with one other friend (only occasionally are there 4 of us). We win; we lose. Who cares? So long as the match felt like it was enjoyable. Would be nice however, to make friends with and play with on a regular basis, more individuals that just want to enjoy themselves. (Can I have a hug?) (Note: I feel I just may need to go out there and create a Smurf acct that I can have a smurfin good time)

I know there are those out there that like to fill their closets (egos) with the hopes and dreams of other mechwarriors by going about their lives with the fastest win by shortest path.(See also cheesebuild of the month) But in all honesty, that is the kind of player I want to encounter; just so that I can (hopefully) roll their day. Many times than not that person is backed by 3 other cheesebuilds of the month people. But I know my skills arent filled with an overinflated bubble of mediocre skill relying on one concept.

[Wintersdark]

SlXSlXSlX, on 23 February 2013 - 02:43 AM, said:

If it is worth it to you, having fun, you will. If the stats are your priority, you will not. That grind, is a pittance, a drop in tehbucket, compared to tanks. You know what happens when you unlock everything, all of a sudden, it gets alot more boring fast.

Remember your second accnt isnt for pro clan wars someday, its for you, when your running alone, and get tired of spamming op builds. Stop looking at the glass as half empty. If you love this game, its not a grind. Enjoy the journey more than once.

AND, if your elo drops, and u and your mates face weaker opponents, you will win more, and your elo will go right back up. It fixes itself, then you tank it again, and repeat.

You have options. Do you play this game becuase you love it? Then all of these options should be acceptable to you.

There's a good middle ground, too.

The matchmaker system keeps separate scores for you per weight class. So, you can play, say, your Lights and Assaults in Pro Clan Wars 8v8 FotM Glory, achieve an absurd Elo score, and then hop into your Noobsauce Mediums and Heavies for regular play at a sane Elo rating.

Talking to others on the G+ community, I see it a lot with the people who are better than me. My Elo rating (I 100% solo drop) is high enough to not get the bad folks, but low enough to avoid the FotM builds - if I see a Splatcat, the pilot is generally terrible. A friend, however, lives in a constant hell of Splatcats, 3L's, D-DC's, and poptarts.

I'll happily keep my Elo rating, thanks. I don't want to go there.

[Team Leader]

Lol yes because every complaint is coming from 4 mans? Once again, great post Six. You are so clever. Totally got those nasty premades!

[StandingCow]

Arcadian Xero, on 23 February 2013 - 02:13 AM, said:

8 mans are boring... for the same reason that the top Elo rating bracket is boring. Nothing but cheesey FoTM builds that abuse a broken unbalanced system.

Right now I absolutely hate playing, and it isn't because I am bad. And it's not because I played a lot of 4 mans (infact all you see in the upper bracket is 4 mans).

It's because I enjoy playing a lot of different mechs and considering there are only a handful that are competitive, that I only use a handful of times, I wind up having a real rough time most games. Especially with the unbalanced weight matching.

In fact every game I lost today was due to a 200-300 ton weight difference... I mean you take excellent players, who are supposed to be there, drop them on a team with that kind of weight advantage and put them up against equally skilled excellent players, that weight difference matters.

I guess my real gripe is that there are a lot of issues with the game right now that are compounded because of other issues. Right now there is a major focus on CQC with SOME long range meta attached to it. Combine that with the small maps which focus you into those brawls, then combine that with mechs that EASILY exploit the best CQC weapons (DDC, K2, A1, 3D, Muromets) then combine that with the ECM/SSRM stacking, then combine that with the weight imbalance and you wind up with some really REALLY awful games.

What happened here is that ELO just brings it all to the surface. Before when you would drop it was a random grouping of people thrown together and balanced weights and SOMETIMES you wind up on realy one sided fights... Now it's take the best players in the game, put them against each other with no weight matching... this is FORCING the top tier players to use these over used mechs that abuse the current system, and it is showing all the problems the game has EVERY SINGLE MATCH, and it drains the fun out of the game... at least for me.

Calling builds "cheezy" is just a word for people who are too lazy to think of a counter, or need an excuse as to why they lost. Every build has a counter. Teamwork can still overcome any build the enemy can come up with.

The game is so much more fun with teamwork and coordination. I started doing the competition, but quickly got bored of the game... why? I missed my team mates, I missed working together with them, so I went back to doing 4 and 8 mans.

I still say the game is primarily about teamwork, without that.... I for one don't have much fun.

Edited by StandingCow, 23 February 2013 - 03:20 PM.

[SlXSlXSlX]

Actually its SLXSLXSLX, but i see your point, and I cant change it now. And as for the posting in other threads, yes I am gloating,I dont call it trolling I call it gloating. You see from where I sit, Ive been the brunt of these same complainers for a long time now, as they stack together, and I get saddled with the new players. It wasnt easy, and I definately feel I have improved greatly from it. Once you fight a 4 man of ravens w ecm n lag shields spamming ssrms, everything else seems easier.

Its not trolling, its me saying see, I told you so. I told you the stat padding would come back and bite you. I was flamed to high heaven and back, and yet I stuck with it. Now that elo has come, its like th edawn of a new day, so I am basking in it. Those players that have farmed new players for there entire time in MWO, now find they are no longer the hunters, but rather have become the prey.

Who couldnt love the irony. They are not players who play seeking good fights. So you will ahve to excuse me if I speak to themharshly. Not only do I not respect that type of stat hooring, I resent it. Most especialy when I feel this community would be even bigger today, than it is, had their antics been curbed earlier.

To me they hurt the community, they hurt my own fun, and now are finding out they are not nearly as good as they thought they were, and I cant help but leave many of my posts, dripping with venom.

It is all true, regardless of whether youi care for me personally or not. And it is their new reality whether they like it or not.

TL DR: Hate me all you want, it wont change how ELO treats someone with your stats, and associated set of skills.

[Team Leader]

Wait... Are people actually taking this thread seriously. WTF.

[F lan Ker]

S!

Internet Stompy Mechs is seriouzs businezz

[Tickdoff Tank]

My only problem with Elo is that is was originally designed for use in a solo play environment where your W/L record is more indicative of your skill and is not partly based on factors outside of your control.

As it stands now it will take a while before the Elo ratings are more accurate, but even then it is not a perfect system for an on-line game with teams of 8. That said, I do not have a better suggestion, just pointing out that a person's Elo will always be affected by the actions of others and not simply their own personal skill.

[Prophetic]

I have been getting into plenty of 1 player left matches. So in that respect I guess it is balanced. My only issue is how that happens. When I get stuck with 3 Spider 5Ks and the other team gets any mechs that are remotely useful in comparison, I feel like it is a really cheesy way to balance a match. This is mostly when I solo PUG. When we run 4 mans I could care less because at least we have a chance to overcome those odds. Bad mechs should be limited in numbers per match in some way.

[SlXSlXSlX]

Tickdoff Tank, on 23 February 2013 - 03:44 PM, said:

My only problem with Elo is that is was originally designed for use in a solo play environment where your W/L record is more indicative of your skill and is not partly based on factors outside of your control.

As it stands now it will take a while before the Elo ratings are more accurate, but even then it is not a perfect system for an on-line game with teams of 8. That said, I do not have a better suggestion, just pointing out that a person's Elo will always be affected by the actions of others and not simply their own personal skill.

This is true, but over time and multiple matches u get teh bad ones, then ur paired with the good ones. It is not like ELO rank is based on any single match. If you run in a 4 man, you win more than you should, and your stats grow beyond your actual skill. That ELO does not account for such "stacking" isnt the fault of the formula, it is the fault of the individuals scamming the system.

Heres another WoT refereence. Met alot of tankers, and some moved to company battles, the equiv. of your 8 man queue.. they get so used to winning alot because they are very picky about who they run with. Run with Forge, and you will see. They win alot. So, alot of them have had their stats go up and up and up. (not forge specifically, I mean no disrespect to them, I jsut used them as an example of a group of pros that win alot) Alot of us pubbing tankers always called them stat hoors. (Again not Forge, but rather nidividuals who only play with the best, so they can win almost all the time). I mean the "I only play company battles" players. So if and when they drop solo, the mm thinks they are god in a tank, but they are not. They are good, but they are fighting the top3% on the server, and that tends to be immensely difficult. So they say, mm sucks, pubs are noobs, im going back to co. battles. I am really good, and I lose so much in random battles, its MM and the other playrs faults.

Problem is with them. Their rank, their stats, have excelled beyond their actual skill. If they had just done pure pub all the time, they would be pegged properly. Their conduct, scams the system, giving them a false higher than it should be, set of stats.

Now.. Think of this co battle as a macrocosm for the 4 man team. Same thing. They are used to winning 4 of 5 matches.

Then... Go look at their posts, and what or who they blame.

They blame the MM (ELO) ((I call her Elaine)), and they blame the pubs, calling them idiots. Its the same issue, in a very similiar game.

TickdOff, I know you can understand this, I believe Ive seen your name running around in WoT, or am I mistaken? Regardless, the logic is sound. Fluff your stats by grouping, and when you go solo, unless your as good as all your mates you grouped with or better, you will have a bad time. Why? Your stats are higher than they should be, and poor elo only measures by numbers. Numbers you have artifically inflated.

Edited by SlXSlXSlX, 23 February 2013 - 04:07 PM.

[Tickdoff Tank]

No one is "scamming" the system. Groups are allowed, even encouraged. Running in a group is a perfectly viable choice. People that play in teams are simply more sued to having coordination and teamwork, which is virtually nonexistent in a PUG. Which is why a lot of people prefer a 4 man team to a solo drop. I also see a lot of excellent solo players do WORSE in a group than they should, because there are different skill sets between dropping solo and dropping in a group. Many of the skills do overlap (basic gunnery, basic driving skills), but it takes practice to effectively support a teammate, to know when you are needed elsewhere to support someone else and how to most effective build a mech as part of a team.

What they should do is have a solo Elo score AND a grouped Elo, possibly even an 8 man Elo score.

[Zylo]

SlXSlXSlX, on 23 February 2013 - 09:42 AM, said:

Starting to learn that the forums today consist of 2 types of players

1. Expd mwo players, who padded stats, and cant handle the ELO bestowed upon them.
2. Lone wolves, gloating that group one is getting their just deserts.

Everyone else is jsut too darn busy having fun in MWO, because MWO has graduated in 2 months from lagging team stacking raven spam, to a great game.

These days when I talk in team chat, i get responses and see action, people want to work together, they want to win. If it looks like weve left cap openand i say something, ppl repond. If they have ecm, I have teammates applying counters. I am not sure what elo bracket taht means i am in, but my god, am I loving the night/day change in my mwo experience today. I can't say it enough.

What about the 3rd type of player that played 8-man drops enough and doesn't mind that 4-man drops feel a bit more like 8-man drops?

I haven't really noticed too many changes in 4-man drops, the difficulty feels closer to 8-man drops with much closer fights, the typical player in the match knows what they are doing, very few 0 damage players unless they lose connection and I have seen no trial mechs.

I prefer running matches like this because the typical player in the game actually seems to be serious about trying to win rather than running off alone to die.

[RickySpanish]

I'm one of those PUGs that had trouble trying to communicate with my team and suffered because of it. Now that Elo is in play, I'm regularly dropping into some frigging awesome matches! There is the occasional muck up, but by and large be it dropping solo or with some friends, I'm seeing truly excellent fights, and the tactics that the larger Alpine map allows are a breath of fresh air. That sinking feeling when you've not seen an enemy yet and it's 2 minutes into the game is pretty intense, or when you're pulling a flanking attack and you're just trying to guess where they might be, and you're right and you win 8/3 or 8/4? So good

I have nothing but good things to say about MM phase 3, my only issue is that when I ran with a new player today (on voice comms at least) it was tricky for him to pick things up in a trial mech with players that weren't new to the game. Still, we had fun!

[SlXSlXSlX]

Totally agree rick. Close matches are more fun. Glad to hear your pulling in new players, and yes he will struggle, didnt we allat first.

Tickdoff Tank, on 23 February 2013 - 04:09 PM, said:

No one is "scamming" the system. Groups are allowed, even encouraged. Running in a group is a perfectly viable choice. People that play in teams are simply more sued to having coordination and teamwork, which is virtually nonexistent in a PUG. Which is why a lot of people prefer a 4 man team to a solo drop. I also see a lot of excellent solo players do WORSE in a group than they should, because there are different skill sets between dropping solo and dropping in a group. Many of the skills do overlap (basic gunnery, basic driving skills), but it takes practice to effectively support a teammate, to know when you are needed elsewhere to support someone else and how to most effective build a mech as part of a team.

What they should do is have a solo Elo score AND a grouped Elo, possibly even an 8 man Elo score.

Sorry Tikdoff I see it as scamming to get the best stats possible. You want to do it witha little more integrity, try limiting yourself to one mech mate, at least then your not stacking half a team. Just 25%.

And i agree it takes different skills to succeed solo, such as typing skills. In my ECM atlas which has no ECM, I find my best weapon is typing to my mates and encouraging communication. By and large 4 mans do this rarely. (cue army of founders who post that they do it every match, simply to disagree with me).

I guess at best were going to have to disagree. I see team stackers who prey on new players, and you see something else. You see them wanting 8 man coordination from their pub team. Well, it certainly wont be on the opposite pub team, so your desire for 8 man coordination in a 4 man team, in a pub match, is really your desire to steam roll the competition. That was a common complaint in tanks, from stat padders hiding in company battles, pub matches are too chaotic, jsut a bunch of idiots and noobs.

No. Its what you get when you throw a bunch of people of varied skills together, with different skills, exp. and mech builds, versus your quad of 8 man pros in 4 man form. They dont know eachother, they may not even agree on strat, they mostly dont type, and that you want to pair them versus your quad, is whether you like to admit it or not, your desire to stack the deck, mostly win, and pad your stats.