207 replies to this topic

[AndyHill]

Since when has WoT done stat-based matchmaking? There's a software called XVM that shows exactly who you're fighting with and against and I can guarantee you that at least a couple months back when I still used to play fairly regularly the stats were absolutely not matched in any way.

However, I think WoT actually has a fairly effective - because it's so darned simple - stat based matchmaking in effect: Once you get to the highest tear randoms you will almost exclusively face people who have thousands of matches under their belt. Of course there are still terribads in there as well as Virtual War Gods, but on the whole the system works. The matches on top are on average of vastly superior quality compared to low-tiers. I also think that's probably as good a matchmaking as they get in games like WoT and MWO.

Now I haven't read every bit of info on MWO Elo, so can someone clarify to me if it actually collects good people together and places them in a match or if it just balances the teams' ratings? The former would be great and the latter horrific. You can't punish people for playing well, that's just wrong.

I've played quite a bit with friends backing me up and I have pretty good stats because of that so I would expect to be in pretty high level games. Yesterday I played a lot of solo and some teams. While soloing I counted three occasions when I did more damage than the rest of the team combined in losses and quite often I ended up on the top of the leaderboard. Watching the guys play made me think many of them are either new to the game or not of Kerensky bloodline. I hope this is not Elo's idea of creating balanced teams...

[Training Instructor]

To the OP, and others who think some of us completely inflated our scores by playing in four mans, and are thus crying now that we're running up against solo players who are far superior in skill because they never play with a group. I was killing you when I was in a four man, and I'm still killing you when I drop solo. You're still killing me, and that's fine. I've never claimed to be an elite player, and neither have most of the people who play in four man pugs on the Comstar teamspeak server.

So, in a solo match where the teams were balanced a bit better. IE: It wasn't me and a couple of decent players paired up with horrible players. The stats don't tell the full story of course, my mech was pretty banged up by the end, and two of the other survivors were as well. Basically, this match could have gone either way, but we did just a bit better at staying together and bringing down guys who stepped out in front one too many times. My build was a 4xL-laser flame.

We weren't using the 3L to be invulnerable to missiles either, we were using the ridges to duck missiles, because that's what somewhat experienced players do. That's all I'm asking, is to be matched up with players of my level. I don't want a bunch of matches where me and a couple of people are supposed to carry 4-5 new or terrible players. That's the old system.

Edited by Training Instructor, 24 February 2013 - 03:37 AM.

[T Hawk]

I'm good and I still lose because I still get the noob teams every single match.

ELO brought no change to the fact that I have to play 90% of my matches with at least 2 but mostly 3-4 people doing an average of 50 damage the whole match and completely ignoring cap mechanics during Conquest.

[Cybermech]

I love this new system, it makes things harder in terms of rofl stomping pugs which I love.
I used to play in 16 groups all the time, when you play against the same people over and over again your skills imporve.
I do miss being primed all the time since it used to keep me on my toes.

8mans.... competitive play??? not sure how hugging each other is competitive play but there are plenty who think so.
So boring isn't even the word for it



Edit: T hawk, you cap during conquest??? lolz

Edited by Cybermech, 24 February 2013 - 03:57 AM.

[Henree]

With community warfare we will fight over terretory control. Where contracts will be out to be picked up an c-bills earned. To buy new equipment and repair damaged mechs. Would it then not make sense to do away with elo because the more lucrative contracts would carry a higher risk an therefore attract the better equipped mech corps. So less solvent units could in theory fight but be outgunned as their equipment might not be up to the task. I mean there are just some mechs which are not viable like the raven 4x for instance because the other units used are just better. So like beginning unites would battle with cheaper units which to me would also be interesting. The lower end mechs with less powerful weapons would make for some interesting longer lasting battles in itself. Not sure if this makes sense. But R&R instead of ELO. Where the difficulty of the battle or it's reward functions as a match maker, that way people can choose to be slaughtered or have a fair fight.

[Karl Franz]

In short, ELO made things better for me, maybe not perfect but definitely better. I am a casual player and game is more balanced and I see far less boated mech that before, which I like because I considered them fun breaker.

Edited by Karl Franz, 24 February 2013 - 04:19 AM.

[The Amazing Atomic Spaniel]

T Hawk, on 24 February 2013 - 03:43 AM, said:

I'm good and I still lose because I still get the noob teams every single match.

ELO brought no change to the fact that I have to play 90% of my matches with at least 2 but mostly 3-4 people doing an average of 50 damage the whole match and completely ignoring cap mechanics during Conquest.

Elo should prevent this if you are playing at a time when a lot of players are logged on. It's designed to group players of similar W/L histories so that most players should see a drift towards 50/50 W/L.

For myself, I have played with various Awesomes a lot recently. I'm very average, but I notice that when I drop in Elo world I am at least getting paired up with players on both sides who really do seem to know what they are doing.

However, I have also started playing mediums again with the new Trebby after a few weeks without touching one and I have found some less capable players in those games (e.g., one shot me in the back on spawn, doesn't happen after a few weeks experience). If I'm not imagining it, this could be because my medium-mech Elo value has not been seeded and it's putting me in with some new players.

Incidentally, I don't think it's right to conclude that players who get low damage scores aren't very good. There's quite a bit of luck in the games. I know I can top the scoreboard for damage on one match and then in the next one be standing in the wrong place when a couple of splatcats walk out of the tunnel and end up with almost nothing.

EDIT - In short, I think Elo is making my games more enjoyable and more balanced.

Edited by RocketDog, 24 February 2013 - 04:22 AM.

[T Hawk]

RocketDog, on 24 February 2013 - 04:20 AM, said:

Elo should prevent this if you are playing at a time when a lot of players are logged on. It's designed to group players of similar W/L histories so that most players should see a drift towards 50/50 W/L.

ELO will never work. The only thing ELO does is prevent me from escaping a not-so-fun 50/50 Win/Lose grind, because my teammates suck.

I lure away 3 heavies in my Spider, my team is in for a 7vs5 and still loses. What else can I do?

The only way for a proper matchmaking is playing with a group of which you know there's no ******* in it who can't pay attention to the ticket counter or suck at aiming.

[Training Instructor]

T Hawk, on 24 February 2013 - 05:50 AM, said:

ELO will never work. The only thing ELO does is prevent me from escaping a not-so-fun 50/50 Win/Lose grind, because my teammates suck.

I lure away 3 heavies in my Spider, my team is in for a 7vs5 and still loses. What else can I do?

The only way for a proper matchmaking is playing with a group of which you know there's no ******* in it who can't pay attention to the ticket counter or suck at aiming.

Hah, I've had this happen a bunch when I play my spider. If it's assault, I get around behind their team and lure people away from the firing line. If it's conquest, I run around capping points or making people chase me.

Usually, the team fails to take advantage of the opportunities I provide them.

[An Awkward Situation]

My problem with the way that Elo is working is the way it negates weight classes. Being outnumbered 5 to 1 in assaults is no way to enjoy a game.

[Kommisar]

I avoid 8 man, and will hopefully avoid the top of the ELO bracket because it is full of people like the OP. It is not unique to this game at all; but you always seem to get a group of supra-arrogant, clique heavy, abusive, types that, while very good at playing, making playing with them as desirable as getting space-herpies.

I shall continue to enjoy my just better than mediocre status.

[2ndLtSnafu]

ELO system made the game.. different? for me. I swapped from mediums to heavies few weeks before the patch so I had just ironed out the kinks of the class change. This resulted in my ELO rating to be very low at least for heavy class.

Now when I drop I see a totally different game. People just standing and turreting away etc. and overall the game is much more loose. One of the main tangible differences is that I run out of ammo. I actually survive long enough to shoot all my ammo to reasonable targets =P

Also at the moment the team play is nowhere to be seen as the game seems more like a battle between groups of individuals than coordinated team tactics. Granted, I play only solo but still this new system seems to level the battlefield so that individual piloting makes more impact. I seem to be moving up the brackets though so this will change, but I find the difference prior and after ELO very distinct and actually quite refreshing.

Development idea: Tourism mode, option to go to different brackets to see what's up. No profit, no exp.

[Vocis]

A good reminder if the faults of Elo can be seen in League of Legends.

The developers commented that it can take 200+ games for Elo to "work" in a 5v5 game, how long do you think it would take in an 8v8 game?

They called it the "carry" effect. Simply put if you're terrible your team can still win. Everyone has done it when it was 7v8 for a DC or AFK.

On the reverse side if you are a good player and your team is pants-on-head stupid your going to lose.

Elo was only ever designed for 1v1 games. Applying it to many v many is possible, but you need to understand it takes hundreds of matches.

That is why the match making is seen as getting worse. They removed the tonnage balancing and put in its place an Elo system that probably won't get a good "read" on someone's skill level for another week or two.

Once the system gets setup it will probably improve, but until then it will continue to be pretty wonky in match making.

[Oni Ralas]

This thread is highly flawed. If I wasn't so hung over, I'd respond more in depth.


Ouch.

[SlXSlXSlX]

Kommisar, on 24 February 2013 - 06:13 AM, said:

I avoid 8 man, and will hopefully avoid the top of the ELO bracket because it is full of people like the OP. It is not unique to this game at all; but you always seem to get a group of supra-arrogant, clique heavy, abusive, types that, while very good at playing, making playing with them as desirable as getting space-herpies.

I shall continue to enjoy my just better than mediocre status.

Sir I am far from the top of the elo bracket. I most certainly never said otherwise. I have gotten alot better, and if I were to give myself the benefit of the doubt, I would say I fall around 50%ile in MWO. Where ever I fall, that is where I belong. I earned my W/L ratio myself, one painful match at a time.

First game today I got 4 kills, 5 assists, and was top score on my team, has 700ish dmg. I was on the front line the whole time with 2LL, 3 SRM6, and an ac20.(Front line was upper city) From the start to the finish, I was on the front line, and was trying to tell random teamamtes go here, dont rush there... Iwas fighting the enemy, using lrm cover, and watching the map as much as I could, trying to read the situation. I gave it 100%. I died, and we were up 4 to 2. My last 4, got singled by this pair and killed, one at a time. No amount of typing could save them, they were all over the place. It hurt to watch them throw the win away on some levels.

I am not upset by this. That is the way it goes. I have had WoT matches where i got 7 kills, but my team still somehow lost it. It happens. Murphies law happens every day. All in all, it was a great match, and I hope I am a cm. better now having exp'd that match. It had to be one of my best ever, despite it ending in a loss. Unlike many of the counter posters in this thread, who label me a noob/troll/or what not, I do not feel entitled to excellent teamamtes every round, nor do I expect to win far more thna I lose, or 8 man coordination, from my random mech mates.

ELO had me pegged a little too high, and thought I could carry my team, or something else. ELO did find me a roughly balanced game, from the sea of potential queued players. It did a pretty darn good job. I hope all my matches are like this one was, but wouldnt mind if a few were wins. Next time, I'll try harder. In hindsight, I am sure I could have done more. Hopefully more experience will show me where I errored.



*Still rocking a DDC with no ECM*

*Still loving ELO*

Sephlock, on 24 February 2013 - 12:17 AM, said:

You got me stuck in an infinite loop >_<. Make it stop...

An infinite loop, involving two beautiful girls...

Could be worse.

Edited by SlXSlXSlX, 24 February 2013 - 07:25 AM.

[Gremlich Johns]

I haven't played since Wednesday, 20 Feb.

What did I miss?

[SlXSlXSlX]

Me (lone wolves in general) becoming much happier, and stat padders becoming sad, and mad.



Welcome back.

[Ihasa]

I pretty much resent the constant characterization that people 4-man to pad their stats. I four-man most of the time on Comstar. If not them, I have RL buddies and other gaming buddies from STO to team with. Why? Because this game is boring by myself. It's a pseudo-MMO, even though I'm not the most social person in the world, your supposed to socialize a bit. So I do, and I enjoy it.

My w/l is 1.57 and my k/d is .99. Those are not impressive by any measure. Yet I get them mostly in 4-man teams. I don't play to farm pugs, the matchmaker gives me who the matchmaker gives me. Most of the people on Comstar believe the same thing. And when we recognize another dropship channel on the other side, say hello's and gg's, win or lose. I think that's what most of us expect, to be coming up against another 4-man most of the time. The rare time the matchmaker puts 2 teams together, sometimes we discuss what to do, and sometimes those on my team have offered to intentionally dc or something so as not to steamroll the other side that may be 8 unsuspecting pugs. And I don't run cheese builds (unless a founders Cat is cheese?) and will only participate in a cheese team (4 lights for example) for the occasional lulz. Most of the Comstar players don't run cheese builds or teams either.

There is a big difference in the various classes of players in this game. There are the competitors, the team-casuals, the lone -wolf casuals and the griefers. I think it's important to stop characterizing every player that teams with such broad strokes. I think OP, and other anti-social lone-wolfs, you are letting your team hatred (jealousy maybe?) cloud your vision.

And my Elo is probably exactly where it should be. I think the multitude of games I played Saturday are evidence of that, even if i was having a particualrly bad day. Still won more than 1/2 of my matches with my team. And that's all I really care about, that and getting back to 1.00 k/d.

[Captain Wolfsburg]

First off, if ELO knocks everyone's game play experience down to 50/50, this game is going to suffer, because people will feel like they can't make any real progress.

That being said, I'm no complaining about being paired with more challenging opponents, Yeah, I'm losing more often, but the challenge has forced my usual 4 man to think more strategically, and make our shots count. When CW comes into effect, I hope to face lots of challenging teams in our fight for territory and contracts.

But I will agree with one thing that seems to be a common complaint. Cheese builds are getting old. I understand that all's fair in this game, and an effective build is just that. But there are WAY too many people taking splat cats and AC20 K2s. The lack of variety in the game makes it really plodding and repetitive. I'm holding out, though, because I believe this game will get better later in development, and as more mechs are released.

Anyway, stop whining guys. One way or another, it's going to get better over time.

Also, I agree with Ihasa. Four manning doesn't mean stat-padding. The whole appeal of this game for me was to be able to drop with a lance or multiple lances and have proper lance tactics. Sure the game has gotten tougher, but that's just more reason for our lance to pull together even more. Like I said before, it's all for the better for us, because we're learning to fight more accurately and strategically.

Edited by A5mod3us, 24 February 2013 - 08:42 AM.

[Nasty McBadman]

SlXSlXSlX, on 24 February 2013 - 07:18 AM, said:

First game today I got 4 kills, 5 assists,

I did not know that was possible. was one of the kills a team mate?
Is that like only solving five sides of a rubic's cube, but not being able to get the sixth?