124 replies to this topic

[Spawnsalot]

I recall a conquest match I had a while back... there was an Atlas pilot who, after the rest of the team had endured a hard fought battle and lost, ran behind the cliffs at our spawn with nary a scratch on his paintwork and powered down. When asked politely why he didn't help us or if he could go get in the fight, he replied (and I quote) "I'm not dying for your ****** *****"

Naturally perturbed by this, our team and I began to lead the enemy team right to him, after some complaining and repositioning to try and stay hidden, he committed to the fight amid much cajoling from his team. He went out and defended a nearby cap point from 2 enemy mechs, he held it long enough and we won by cap victory.

If you wuss out, I'm going to lead the opposition right to you in an effort to "encourage" you to contribute to the match.

P.S. If you look like you're struggling because you're new etc, that's cool - I have no problem with that, learn away!

[MuonNeutrino]

Well, fairly obviously we all agree that there's nothing wrong with speaking up when the last player is afk/DC'd. Beyond that, though, if you're obviously trying your hardest to screw over your team or avoid participating in the match, you bet your *** I'm going to call you out on your shenanigans. If your mech is beat up, you're dry on ammo, you've obviously been fighting or were trying to flank/etc, that's fine by me - heck, sometimes it's fun to play the 'can I somehow escape?' running away game when the battle has gone massively south. But if you're essentially untouched, your ammo bins are full, and you're hiding behind a building shut down, then you're griefing your team just as much as someone who TKs at the start of the match, and I'm not going to let you get away with it.

Calling out a teammate's location may be against the rules. However, I would suggest that there's another section of the rules that's also important.

Niko Snow said:

Mech Suicide Abuse
Some players have been repeatedly finding ways to destroy their ‘Mechs as quickly as possible.
This behaviour denies an otherwise healthy team of an active member, and makes the battle imbalanced. As such, this is prohibited...

Away From Keyboard Abuse
If a player has joined a match, they must have launched the game with intent to play. Players who are not moving, or are otherwise not participating in the spirit of the game, fall under this category. While we all understand the call of nature: Repeated abuse of this behaviour, similarly to 'Mech Suicide and Team Killing, results in an unfair advantage for the enemy teams, and is thus not considered acceptable use. Please keep in mind that idling on your cap point without armour or moving does not constitute a form of tactical "Base Defense".

(Emphasis mine.)

In other words, being an ******* and screwing over your team by not participating in the match is just as against the rules as calling out your location is. And while two wrongs may not make a right, it sure as hell does make it even.

Edit: obviously this doesn't include stuff like hiding to say alive long enough to win by cap on conquest or whatever. It's all down to intent. If it's obvious that you at least *tried* to win, that's the important part.

Edited by MuonNeutrino, 25 February 2013 - 06:36 AM.

[Roland]

If you hide instead of fighting I'll tell the enemy where to find you.
Go ahead, report me. I do not care.

[p00k]

Hades Trooper, on 25 February 2013 - 03:40 AM, said:

so the pilot in the 3L raven i saw at the very start of the game on the old ice map, pug side this weekend, with the 150km 3 medium laser ecm, 2 streak raven wasn't a newbie.

he went to hide in H4 behind where the spawn is so i said in all chat, where i was and said you can find me here with the raven who claims to be waiting in ambush then fires on me in the head trying to teamkill was a newbie? i think not.

Griefing is one thing, before the 1st shot has been fired hiding to avoid the game is another.

so anyone with elite skills in a mech can't be a newbie? not like the mlas+ssrm raven build is a secret either. the guy could easily have been a newb. but even if he wasn't, it doesn't matter. if he wanted to wait behind spawn to ambush someone, even if he was doomed to failure, that's his decision. to announce his location to the enemy was your decision. a decision that is against pgi's code of conduct.

for all you know, he could've pounced on an enemy light when they try to tag base and eliminate an enemy mech. would he have been more useful with the rest of the team fighting off the lights there? maybe. but we've all had pugs that we wish did something other than what they ultimately decided to do. if your lrm boat decides to take the tunnel alone in forest colony, it's probably a bad decision. to announce to the enemy that your friendly lrm boat is in the tunnel and they should go kill him, just because you'd rather him be elsewhere shooting other enemies, is the same as what you did. and is considered griefing.

Roland, on 25 February 2013 - 06:33 AM, said:

If you hide instead of fighting I'll tell the enemy where to find you.
Go ahead, report me. I do not care.

i'm sure intentional teamkillers feel the same way about attacking friendlies. glad you hold yourself in such quality company.

i don't like it any more than anyone else. i'm also not a jackass. esc>quit match. not that hard

Edited by p00k, 25 February 2013 - 02:06 PM.

[Universe Man]

Super Mono, on 24 February 2013 - 09:07 PM, said:

They should go out and try fighting instead of running and shutting down and wasting everyone's time. if you're upset that someone gave away your position to get the game over with then actually try fighting and supporting your team and you might end up winning more.

Nobody is wasting your time except you (you can always quit the game). Don't grief players by breaking the rules to punish them.

Edited by Universe Man, 25 February 2013 - 02:23 PM.

[Xmith]

William Conrad, on 24 February 2013 - 08:53 PM, said:

I have experience a few times, with idiots, traitors or betrayers, who had revealed other team members positions when I, or a few of the other team members are the last few still standing while they were killed earlier.

I can't name names because of the code of conduct, but I can give them through private messaging.

I have zero tolerance for such act, and I have a list of names so in the next game when they play together with me, I will following them around and returned the same favor, and if they shoot me, I have a reason to end their fun early.

I am seeking strategies from forum members as to how this can be deal with, since reporting them is a waste of time.

Pity the way of the clan is not possible, I will challenge these dishonorable traitors to a trial of grievance, if PGI ever make 1 vs 1 death match possible, and post the result from the match on youtube.

You are not a team player.

Blaze32, on 24 February 2013 - 09:01 PM, said:

+1
exactly i would do the same thing and have before seing this.
(but only if the person is afk/disconected or really crappy players)

You are not a team player.

William Conrad, on 24 February 2013 - 08:53 PM, said:

I have experience a few times, with idiots, traitors or betrayers, who had revealed other team members positions when I, or a few of the other team members are the last few still standing while they were killed earlier.

I can't name names because of the code of conduct, but I can give them through private messaging.

I have zero tolerance for such act, and I have a list of names so in the next game when they play together with me, I will following them around and returned the same favor, and if they shoot me, I have a reason to end their fun early.

I am seeking strategies from forum members as to how this can be deal with, since reporting them is a waste of time.

Pity the way of the clan is not possible, I will challenge these dishonorable traitors to a trial of grievance, if PGI ever make 1 vs 1 death match possible, and post the result from the match on youtube.

Sorry Mr Conrad. You are a team player.

OuttaAmmo NoWai, on 24 February 2013 - 08:56 PM, said:

If our last man is a D/C or an AFK - I'm giving away his position.
If he's an ***** who's alpha striking out of effective range - I'm giving away his position.
If he runs into buildings and can't hit mechs with a medium laser - I'm giving away his position.
If the entire team is dead and he doesn't have a scratch on him - You'd best believe I'm giving away his position.

You are not a team player

[SixstringSamurai]

Hades Trooper, on 24 February 2013 - 09:03 PM, said:

agree,

or if he runs off to a corner and power down to avoid getting a death to name also and there still more than 5 mins left in the name i'm giving away his position, more so if he's not damaged also

Or just because you feel like it.....then you chase them around the map in a stalker....die early without inflicting over 100 points of damage....cry about how the person you just dimed out didn't protect you with ECM.....while we win the game for you....and the rest of the team tells you to be quiet.

[Rakashan]

Super Mono, on 24 February 2013 - 09:18 PM, said:

This is a separate thing, and it's fairy easy to tell when someone is trying or tried and failed at an indirect approach, and when someone is trying to hide to preserve their k/d ratio. People would not throw the game when there's a light chance to pull it off, but if someone's just wasting time they'll want to get the inevitable over with.

While I agree that it's usually an easy thing to tell, I also know that you're giving people too much credit based on the people I have seen throw matches when someone is not only trying, but winning by isolating single mechs and killing them.

I'm as inclined to believe that the people here advocating giving a position away are just rushing in and dying quickly because they fail to grasp tactics as I am to believe that they actually care about winning and giving players who are still alive a chance to win.

[FrostCollar]

I almost never do this. If someone wants to go down fighting,I'll never give their location. Even if they're obviously not very good at the game. In fact - especially if that's the case. It's an honorable way to go out and occasionally I've been the last mech or seen the last mech that manages to kill the rest of the enemy and steal victory from the jaws of defeat. That's quite uplifting to see.

However, if the last mech on our team is running into a wall endlessly or obviously AFK in some other way, I'll give the location. Running into a corner on a large map and powering down is despicable cowardice as well.

[Kommisar]

To all in favor of "giving up" the last guy:

How do you judge someone as "not worthy"? Hasn't taken enough damage in the round seems to be a common refrain. I've gotten this one lots of times since I drive Assaults a lot and I tend to be smart with where I put them. They charged into a bad situation, in a faster mech, got themselves killed real quick through serious of poor choices, and then blame me for not having taken similar damages to my mech?

Heck, I've had a few rounds where 6 of my team mates got themselves killed before I even make it to the half way point on a map. It wasn't ALL of their faults, usually. Most were generally trying to support the team by helping the guy that Leroy Jenkins his hunchback into a pair of DDC Atlases and their Stalker friend. At which point, the congo line of death ensues where the team gets eaten by their 3 to 5 mechs all hitting on one mech at a time.

These things happen folks. Sometimes, a guy just winds up the last man through no fault of his own. (Wow, I actually just had to say that someone kept his mech operational and it may not be his fault). And sometimes, he hasn't been torn to pieces either.

Doesn't need a bunch of dead guys passing judgement and handing him over to the enemy for it.

Having been that last guy getting ratted out; I know how much it can suck. Yea, I may not have had much damage on my Atlas or Stalker those rounds... but I did have 2 or more kills. And that was more than the waste of carbon ratting me out had.

I get telling the other team if there is a blatant DC. Otherwise, give a guy a shot.

[One Medic Army]

Kommisar, on 25 February 2013 - 03:16 PM, said:

To all in favor of "giving up" the last guy:

How do you judge someone as "not worthy"? Hasn't taken enough damage in the round seems to be a common refrain. I've gotten this one lots of times since I drive Assaults a lot and I tend to be smart with where I put them. They charged into a bad situation, in a faster mech, got themselves killed real quick through serious of poor choices, and then blame me for not having taken similar damages to my mech?

Heck, I've had a few rounds where 6 of my team mates got themselves killed before I even make it to the half way point on a map. It wasn't ALL of their faults, usually. Most were generally trying to support the team by helping the guy that Leroy Jenkins his hunchback into a pair of DDC Atlases and their Stalker friend. At which point, the congo line of death ensues where the team gets eaten by their 3 to 5 mechs all hitting on one mech at a time.

These things happen folks. Sometimes, a guy just winds up the last man through no fault of his own. (Wow, I actually just had to say that someone kept his mech operational and it may not be his fault). And sometimes, he hasn't been torn to pieces either.

Doesn't need a bunch of dead guys passing judgement and handing him over to the enemy for it.

Having been that last guy getting ratted out; I know how much it can suck. Yea, I may not have had much damage on my Atlas or Stalker those rounds... but I did have 2 or more kills. And that was more than the waste of carbon ratting me out had.

I get telling the other team if there is a blatant DC. Otherwise, give a guy a shot.

Because if you're undamaged, and the enemy is damaged, you have a good chance at killing several of them. You have a non-zero chance of winning the match if you play well even.

In a Jenner F I charged into 7 enemy mechs, and killed 2 (would have been 3 if the CTFs gauss would have popped, would have been more if I hadn't gotten overeager and overheated).

If you're in an undamaged atlas you should be able to at least kill one or two damaged enemies rather than hiding in a corner.

Edited by One Medic Army, 25 February 2013 - 03:30 PM.

[BillyM]

There are two scenarios people are not drawing a differentiating line between. Damaged-vs-not, doesn't matter. Helped your team or not, doesn't matter. What matters is NOT wasting people's time..

Senario1 (OK to give away his position!): Player8 is the last remaining on his team, walks into a hidey-hole and shuts down without saying anything even after text taunts from enemy forces team.

Scenario2 (Not OK to give away his position!): Player8 is the last remaining on his team, walks into a hidey-hole and shuts down stating to all-chat "I surrender the match, feel free to cap."


If you shut down and hide without surrendering, you are wasting everyone's time. Surrender is honorable(ish) in the face of defeat. Forcing everyone to sit through minutes of the remaining enemy-forces scouring the map while you hide silently is not honorable...

--billyM

Edited by BillyM, 25 February 2013 - 03:36 PM.

[Tarman]

OuttaAmmo NoWai, on 24 February 2013 - 09:07 PM, said:

I drop in premades. Our 4 guys want to see their scores, want to use the same mechs for another match, want to move on, want their c-bills......
It's simply speeding up the inevitable.

And no, I don't worry about honor in a sci-fi video game where I play as a mercenary.

Letting your personal vendettas get in the way of the mission (which is not being a donkeyhat over a game to someone you are better than), means that you are actually failing miserably at being a mercenary.

[Messiah Complex]

Only time I ever give away a position, is when someone walks away and powers down( as to not get killed, by hiding in the farthest corner of the map) , or disconnects, or is an afk. No other reason, If they are moving they have a chance.

[Major Derps]

BillyM, on 25 February 2013 - 03:34 PM, said:

There are two scenarios people are not drawing a differentiating line between. Damaged-vs-not, doesn't matter. Helped your team or not, doesn't matter. What matters is NOT wasting people's time..

Senario1 (OK to give away his position!): Player8 is the last remaining on his team, walks into a hidey-hole and shuts down without saying anything even after text taunts from enemy forces team.

Scenario2 (Not OK to give away his position!): Player8 is the last remaining on his team, walks into a hidey-hole and shuts down stating to all-chat "I surrender the match, feel free to cap."


If you shut down and hide without surrendering, you are wasting everyone's time. Surrender is honorable(ish) in the face of defeat. Forcing everyone to sit through minutes of the remaining enemy-forces scouring the map while you hide silently is not honorable...

--billyM

Spot on, however, you are rolling with IS. They do not know the meaning of honor.

[Oy of MidWorld]

I once hid when i had a 4fps bug. Told my team, not the enemy though. Stayed in the match so the enemy wouldn't know we were down one mech. We lost. When they were already capping our base, some ******* from my team gave them my position. He had understood that i had 4fps. I was quite pissed.

They said i was a coward, i said i had 4fps, they were all like gimme the kill, gimme the kill...

Sad story

Edited by Oy of MidWorld, 25 February 2013 - 03:50 PM.

[Fajther]

OuttaAmmo NoWai, on 24 February 2013 - 08:56 PM, said:

If our last man is a D/C or an AFK - I'm giving away his position.
If he's an ***** who's alpha striking out of effective range - I'm giving away his position.
If he runs into buildings and can't hit mechs with a medium laser - I'm giving away his position.
If the entire team is dead and he doesn't have a scratch on him - You'd best believe I'm giving away his position.

+1

There are too many @$$@$ out there who run away from the battle while they still have the ability to contribute because they are protecting their kill death ratio. Down with them.

[Fiachdubh]

If they are a disconnect/AFK it is OK.

Otherwise if they want to save their mech let them. Either wait for the end or just leave the server.

[Wolf Clearwater]

Acceptable to report location on an actual DC, as in one you know for sure (on teamspeak, etc). In fact did this yesterday for a teammate who's client crashed and he didn't want to wait either....

[fharoah]

Mech love, not war. Let it go. You get your points, you get your c-bills, so quit the match and move on. Most of you pilots have more than just one mech in your garage, so play something else. Your first mech usually ready by the time your next match is over.
It is bad karma to pop and squat, but it is equally bad karma to call someone out, two negatives don't always make a positive.
Inhale through the nose and exhale out the mouth, pet yourself on the head and tell yourself it will be alright. Repeat if necessary and have another beer if you are of legal age.