419 replies to this topic

[Daggett]

jakucha, on 26 February 2013 - 04:34 AM, said:

Nah, splat cats don't require a "good pilot". Anyone with basic piloting skills can unleash an unbalanced amount of damage for what's required to do it. Completely unproportional

You forgot something important:

Yes, it is true that you don't need exorbitant skill to charge in and kill the first enemy mech who's unlucky enough to bump into you.

But without map-awareness and patience you will then most likely be attacked (and killed) by his teammates while you are close to overheating after your kill.

And furthermore while it is no problem to hit Heavies, Assaults and most mediums, light mechs are not that easy to hit. You need to play lots of games to get used to SRM-aiming before you will be able to predict their movement, lag and flight speed of SRMS.

So the true skill to be really successful in a splatcat is to SURVIVE after your first kill. That's where most splatcat drivers i've seen so far utterly fail.

If you only trade your mech against one of theirs, you achieved nothing.
If you kill or damage a second mech before you go down then you actually helped your team but thats still far from being OP. Any decent player can do that and more with less cheesy builds.

Only when you manage to stay hidden and pick on occupied, unaware or isolated mechs, then you can use the Splatcat to it's full potential. And the only question is if a similar skilled player could carry his team equally well in another mech. If we can answer this, then we can say for sure if the splatcat is OP or not.

So my conclusion is:

Being able to easily kill a mech fast is no indicator of OP-ness.

The splatcat requires several skills to be really strong:

• Map awareness to see holes for flanking
  
• Patience to withstand the urge to attack easy prey right behind that obstacle you are hiding, and instead wait for your opportunity to do it SAFELY.
  
• Heat management because you will run hot and a shutdowned splatcat is usually a dead spaltcat.
  
• Aiming (to hit fast and nimble mechs)
  
• Jumpjetting is also quite away from being a no-brainer because when landing you are stationary and present a perfect target for anyone with some aim. And you are very predictable while airborne.
  
• Torso twisting is very important to survive long enough. Several games i only was able to dominate the match because i repeatedly managed to turn away my heavily damaged torso until my teammates saved me so i was able to cause lots of additional havok.
  Even knowing when to deliberately sacrifice one of your valuable arms just to prevent being killed is very important.

It took me way more than 100 games in my splatcat to even be able to really contribute to my team beside only exchanging my mech with an enemy one.
And even 250+ games to reach a level of performance to be able to dominate each match i play.

So no, the splatcat is by far no easy mode if you want to do more than kill something fast and then die.

And yes, when driven by a veteran player i indeed think that it is stronger than most other mechs out there. But unless more players share my impression or PGI is able to extract some data-based evidence from their tracking this still is only my subjective impression.

[jakucha]

Daggett, on 26 February 2013 - 05:43 AM, said:

You forgot something important:

Yes, it is true that you don't need exorbitant skill to charge in and kill the first enemy mech who's unlucky enough to bump into you.

But without map-awareness and patience you will then most likely be attacked (and killed) by his teammates while you are close to overheating after your kill.

And furthermore while it is no problem to hit Heavies, Assaults and most mediums, light mechs are not that easy to hit. You need to play lots of games to get used to SRM-aiming before you will be able to predict their movement, lag and flight speed of SRMS.

So the true skill to be really successful in a splatcat is to SURVIVE after your first kill. That's where most splatcat drivers i've seen so far utterly fail.

If you only trade your mech against one of theirs, you achieved nothing.
If you kill or damage a second mech before you go down then you actually helped your team but thats still far from being OP. Any decent player can do that and more with less cheesy builds.

Only when you manage to stay hidden and pick on occupied, unaware or isolated mechs, then you can use the Splatcat to it's full potential. And the only question is if a similar skilled player could carry his team equally well in another mech. If we can answer this, then we can say for sure if the splatcat is OP or not.

So my conclusion is:

Being able to easily kill a mech fast is no indicator of OP-ness.

The splatcat requires several skills to be really strong:

• Map awareness to see holes for flanking
  
• Patience to withstand the urge to attack easy prey right behind that obstacle you are hiding, and instead wait for your opportunity to do it SAFELY.
  
• Heat management because you will run hot and a shutdowned splatcat is usually a dead spaltcat.
  
• Aiming (to hit fast and nimble mechs)
  
• Jumpjetting is also quite away from being a no-brainer because when landing you are stationary and present a perfect target for anyone with some aim. And you are very predictable while airborne.
  
• Torso twisting is very important to survive long enough. Several games i only was able to dominate the match because i repeatedly managed to turn away my heavily damaged torso until my teammates saved me so i was able to cause lots of additional havok.
  
  Even knowing when to deliberately sacrifice one of your valuable arms just to prevent being killed is very important.

It took me way more than 100 games in my splatcat to even be able to really contribute to my team beside only exchanging my mech with an enemy one.
And even 250+ games to reach a level of performance to be able to dominate each match i play.

So no, the splatcat is by far no easy mode if you want to do more than kill something fast and then die.

And yes, when driven by a veteran player i indeed think that it is stronger than most other mechs out there. But unless more players share my impression or PGI is able to extract some data-based evidence from their tracking this still is only my subjective impression.

It's very easy to hit lights. You just shoot them when they run around you in circles, hell, I kill them all the time with just 2 SRM 6s in my 4sp

[Kylere]

M0rpHeu5, on 26 February 2013 - 04:07 AM, said:

The problems isn't the cat but the weapon, reduce the damage of SRM from 2,5 to 1,5 pr missile and it will be ok. About the other op bults that people talking about
The gausspult needs skill to use
The laser hunchie isn't op since the engine restrictions
The stakpult will be fixxed with the damage nerf
The laser jenners are op couse of the lagshield not the weapons

This would mean that no one would ever use an SRM anything.

[Ghogiel]

I would pay MC to mount siren lights on my splatcat. I'd switch them on just as I get into the deathball

[jakucha]

TurinAlexander, on 25 February 2013 - 05:08 PM, said:

I'm so sick of all the bitching and moaning about every build that's even slightly effective. SSRM are cheese, Gauss are cheese, AC/20s are cheese, SRMs are cheese, PPCs are cheese, LRMs are cheese...I could go on. Some people won't be happy until all we have is two medium lasers apiece and all we do is circle strafe each other to death.

This is the only specific weapon complaint thread on the first page right now and the only one that's been staying here recently. No one else is complaining about the other weapons as much as this right now

Edited by jakucha, 26 February 2013 - 06:09 AM.

[Ghogiel]

jakucha, on 26 February 2013 - 06:07 AM, said:

This is the only specific weapon complaint thread on the first page right now and the only one that's been staying here recently. No one else is complaining about the other weapons as much as this right now

Shall I make a SSRM thread?

[3rdworld]

Splat cat is a pub stomper. Good at killing people not paying attention or running around aimlessly. Anyone that has a modicum of battlefield awareness should have no problem killing or disabling them before they do anything meaningful.

I couldn't tell you the last time in an 8 man I saw a splat with more than 100ish damage.

[Franchi]

jakucha, on 26 February 2013 - 06:07 AM, said:

This is the only specific weapon complaint thread on the first page right now and the only one that's been staying here recently. No one else is complaining about the other weapons as much as this right now

What about the Poptarts being accused of aimboting/wall hacking?

Edited by Franchi, 26 February 2013 - 06:16 AM.

[Sheraf]

SRM 6 tells you one thing. Do not run around a corner without knowing what is waiting for you there . In another word, scouting is an important aspect of the game.

[OneEyed Jack]

Splatcats often annoy me greatly in the moment, but no more than several other things, and I don't feel they ruin the game. However, it's quite apparent which people are desperate to defend them with idiotic comments like:

• Don't get close
  
• Shoot the ears off
  
• Use your sensors before you charge
  
• ... and other nonsense.

Either that or they're desperate for others to think they're better at the game than they actually are. Little do they know that it only demonstrates their ignorance.

Anybody with a lick of common sense, and the balls to admit they occasionally die in a video game, knows that:

• Splatcats are fairly fast and can catch just about anything that's trying to back away
  
• If you're faster and turn to run, you just die to 36 missiles in the back before you go far
  
• If you're faster and turn to run, you can't shoot at the ears, because they're behind you... shooting you in the back
  
• The same cover that protects you from Snipers and LRMs gives the Splatcat cover to get close
  
• Splatcats have enough armor that it's essentially impossible to prevent them getting at least 2 alphas before a single mech can kill them or amputate an ear. Teammates, unless they were already facing them, will likely take at least this long to respond.
  
• Only very bad Splatcat pilots approach across open terrain
  
• Splatcats, along with AC20-cats, are often piloted by the most cowardly players and don't even enter the fight until everyone is half dead and they can 1-shot people

Yes, yes they can be dealt with, assuming your team has the brains to focus them down, but that doesn't help that first guy they saw when you/they came around the corner or over the hill.

[Daggett]

jakucha, on 26 February 2013 - 05:48 AM, said:

It's very easy to hit lights. You just shoot them when they run around you in circles, hell, I kill them all the time with just 2 SRM 6s in my 4sp

Sure, but good driven lights are way less predictable and don't always circle you.
I've even met some seriously skilled light pilots who are able to switch their direction just in the moment where you shoot at them.

Those can kill a splatcat quite well.
But i agree that most lights are easy to hit with a bit training.

Edited by Daggett, 26 February 2013 - 06:50 AM.

[Penance]

Last night I was in a match on frozen city, the new one. I noticed and enemy mech walk through the tunnel and mentioned it to the team. the other enemies were apparently by the hill.

OK I thought, I did see the outline of a catapult but didn't consider the build itself, and was thinking about this clown going to the base while everyone else is occupied, we've all been there. So, I'm plodding alone in my Ilya along the wall of the cliff towards the entrance that comes out near the base. We meet each other at the mouth, and with 2 shots I die. In the mech description on the upper right corner where you see the build 6 srm6.

I sighed, and mentioned to the team a splatcat was coming up from the rear, then left the match.

[Sable]

A simple solution could be to make srms shoot in streams like old mechwarrior games instead of a clump like they do now. Making all 6 missiles hit would be more challenging and remove the instant burst of damage. A moving target would increase the potential for some of the missiles to miss. This could help balance the weapon without having to change the total possible damage yet making it more challenging to achieve the total possible damage.

[Sug]

OneEyed Jack, on 26 February 2013 - 06:46 AM, said:

• Splatcats are fairly fast and can catch just about anything that's trying to back away
  
• If you're faster and turn to run, you just die to 36 missiles in the back before you go far
  
• If you're faster and turn to run, you can't shoot at the ears, because they're behind you... shooting you in the back
  
• The same cover that protects you from Snipers and LRMs gives the Splatcat cover to get close
  
• Splatcats have enough armor that it's essentially impossible to prevent them getting at least 2 alphas before a single mech can kill them or amputate an ear. Teammates, unless they were already facing them, will likely take at least this long to respond.
  
• Only very bad Splatcat pilots approach across open terrain
  
• Splatcats, along with AC20-cats, are often piloted by the most cowardly players and don't even enter the fight until everyone is half dead and they can 1-shot peopl

Thank you.

[Penance]

OneEyed Jack, on 26 February 2013 - 06:46 AM, said:

• Splatcats, along with AC20-cats, are often piloted by the most cowardly players and don't even enter the fight until everyone is half dead and they can 1-shot people

Well ****. I was going to modify me 2ll 2 mpl p.o.s k2 to an ac20 cat...better than a gausscat. but not now.

[Ghogiel]

Sable, on 26 February 2013 - 06:57 AM, said:

A simple solution could be to make srms shoot in streams like old mechwarrior games instead of a clump like they do now. Making all 6 missiles hit would be more challenging and remove the instant burst of damage. A moving target would increase the potential for some of the missiles to miss. This could help balance the weapon without having to change the total possible damage yet making it more challenging to achieve the total possible damage.

Missiles come out in numbers of how many tubes the launcher has.

[Penance]

Ghogiel, on 26 February 2013 - 07:06 AM, said:

Missiles come out in numbers of how many tubes the launcher has.

but he's saying instead of firing all at once, eg 6 missiles in the clump they currently come out in, they fire one at a time in sequence which yields greater chances to miss if the person moves the target reticule...imagine if each launch tube in the rack was set to chain fire one after the other.

think how a modern missile launcher fires...they fire fast, but one at a time.

Edited by Penance, 26 February 2013 - 07:10 AM.

[SpiralRazor]

Garfuncle, on 25 February 2013 - 11:24 AM, said:

The problem with cheese, primarily the splatcat, is that it kills the fun of the game. Forget good aim, concentrating fire with teammates, managing laser and ballistic, heat and ammo...

Nope! Just grab a 'Cat, fill it to the brim with SRMs and kill everything but assaults in two salvos. The problem isn't even with these builds getting multiple kills. Even if they trade kills, it still has a broader effect. The problem is being on the receiving side and being taken taken out near instantly to something you can't possibly defend yourself from on most maps before being gibbed. This is simply not fun. It's frustrating, grating, and utterly annoying. You can desperatly alpha strike, torso twist, and run for cover, but the mindless, fun-ripping Splatcat will simply kamakaze right into you and strip off armor and weapons in one move.

I like Mech Warrior due to the prolonged battle, squeezing every amount of skill, aim, and armor from your mech before going down. This is NOT Call of Duty where can die instantly from a tiny amount of fire. Splatcats don't feel like Mechwarrior. They don't feel right to fight, kill, be killed by, or even be used in the game. It's just not fun. And that's what we have here...

Splatcats should be renamed: "Killed the Fun in MWO Cats."

Also people on this forum are apparently incapable of reading comprehension. It's not about killing, being killed by them. It's about how their playstyle is rubbish game design. Read.

Title should be changed to "Whhhhaaahh...I am a bad! Please to make things easy on me!".

[Ghogiel]

Penance, on 26 February 2013 - 07:09 AM, said:

but he's saying instead of firing all at once, eg 6 missiles in the clump they currently come out in, they fire one at a time in sequence which yields greater chances to miss if the person moves the target reticule...imagine if each launch tube in the rack was set to chain fire one after the other.

think how a modern missile launcher fires...they fire fast, but one at a time.

But I am saying that the A1 doesn't have 6 narc tubes...

[jakucha]

SpiralRazor, on 26 February 2013 - 07:22 AM, said:

Title should be changed to "Whhhhaaahh...I am a bad! Please to make things easy on me!".

Equally your post can be changed to "Whhhaaah I have no skill please don't take away my unbalanced mech build!"