209 replies to this topic

[Magik0012]

I vote: No.

[Infernus1986]

This thread is so funny, people defending the catapult.
Simply put the catapult does everything better then most mechs in the game except lights and there speed.

Its side torso hit boxes are tiny, it has almost 360* twist with the fixes to efficiency's.
It can boat high dmg weapons better then any other mech while being 65 tons
and it can out run most anything that would be a threat to it.

Coming from someone who has played catapults extensively and does very well in them its about time they fall back into there proper place as fire support and not the Swiss army knife of MWO.

[JudgeDeathCZ]

SpartanFiredog317, on 26 February 2013 - 10:46 AM, said:

....86 Kmph is faster than almost all assaults, most heavies and many mediums.... combined with the 360 arc of fire. cover is easy. And its silly that the Catapult is the only mech in the game that has so many cheese builds.

I think you forgot about Pretty Baby.280 degrees torso twist and able to run 90 kph with 3xMPlas and 3xSRMs4/6

And about torso twist I do not care...Stalkers learned me how to play with small torso twist

Edited by JudgeDeathCZ, 26 February 2013 - 10:59 AM.

[TOPGUN Iceman]

In the academy, we learn that maneuverability is paramount in a dogfight. All you need to do in the Catapult is slam on the brakes, and he'll fly right past you.

[Josef Nader]

DuoAngel, on 26 February 2013 - 10:39 AM, said:

Can't kill the Cat? Don't come close to it. Simple solution. Even with top engine it makes only 86kmph at elites. Just find out first what it carries and judge what to do - come closer or run further.

Scary about Cats with PPC/Gauss or with SRMs/AC20? Face Stalker with the twice of firepower

The Hunchback only gets 5-10kph faster with a maxed engine. That's not enough to get away from, or play footsie with the catapult. Especially because the Hunchback needs to move laterally to return fire, whereas the Cat can charge forward at full speed.

So I can either run directly away from you (exposing delicious back armor) or you're -going- to catch me. Excellent choices.

Centurions can go slightly faster, but they also have less twist, meaning they have to move even -more- laterally to the Catapult to return fire. In other words, they're even easier to catch.

Compounding this, the Catapult does not need to manuver in a brawl. The positioning of your legs is vitally important to every mech in the game... except the catapult. The catapult can twist so far around that it's rear arc is entirely inconsequential, and it can win turning battles by cutting throttle and standing in place, something no other mech can do, especially considering that no other mech packs as much firepower as the cat. On top of -that- the Catapult can alpha strike at the extremes of it's torso traverse, whereas all the other mechs with remotely comparable reach are strictly reliant on arm weapons at that point.

Stalkers aren't anywhere near as scary. Sure, they pack a big alpha, and they'll kill you dead quick. They're also fat, slow, and have an extremely limited field of fire. It takes some good piloting for a Stalker to win a turning battle, even with maxed out efficiencies.

The cheese cats aren't the problem. The problem is the catapult chassis itself not having any real weaknesses aside from a larger-than-average head hitbox. Sure, that's a good weakness, I'll give ya, but it's really the only one.

Edited by Josef Nader, 26 February 2013 - 11:05 AM.

[Petrothian Tong]

tbh, when I see a splat cat, I go lawls and run away shooting its ears and legs...


is F---ing ECM ravens with streaks that scares me.

[Nostram]

In regards to top speed of the Catapult vs other heavies. Mostly cataphracts have the same speed capabilities, dragons can go much faster. How is it that Catapults are faster again?

[Praehotec8]

It would be better to limit the ability of the A-1 to carry all SRMs better yet, balance the game's weapon systems such that more balanced loadouts are favored. Splatcats aren't that hard to kill. I get killed more by ECM lights with streaks than splatcats.

[BoydofZINJ]

TOPGUN Iceman, on 26 February 2013 - 10:59 AM, said:

In the academy, we learn that maneuverability is paramount in a dogfight. All you need to do in the Catapult is slam on the brakes, and he'll fly right past you.

After i stopped laughing I realized your name was ICEMAN... should that not be goose or maverick?

[JudgeDeathCZ]

Praehotec8, on 26 February 2013 - 11:12 AM, said:

It would be better to limit the ability of the A-1 to carry all SRMs better yet, balance the game's weapon systems such that more balanced loadouts are favored. Splatcats aren't that hard to kill. I get killed more by ECM lights with streaks than splatcats.

This.
If you are good enough you will just keep in distance.But try to keep distance against raven-3L

[Ransack]

how come anything that doesn't go pew pew needs to be nerfed?

[Kdogg788]

Not another one of these threads. Let me make this clear for you. Nerfing a particular chassis does not in fact fix a certain weapon that you hate on (SRM/SSRM2). These are boated even worse in Stalkers which have many more hardpoints and more tonnage to use. Streaks are also abused much more so on lights that heavies and assaults. You'd have to remove the capability of lights to mount streaks or streaks + ECM for it to work. I've taken out and been taken out in all manner of Catapult. Just target them and find out which weapon they have. And stay out of the brawl if you don't want the engagement to be close. Position yourself better. Nothing you can do if its 4 on 1, but for the most part it's within your control.

-k

-k

[Yankee77]

The torso twist is fine, it's there to compensate for the lack of lower arm actuators. If anything, the high twist is the Catapult's "quirk".

And yes, the Stalker also has the same arms, BUT the Stalker is basically built as a bigger, badder Catapult. The only advantage a Catapult has over the Stalker is the faster speed and torso twist.

In any case, the A1 is the only mech that's an issue, and once again that's more a problem with boating than with any specific mech chassis. So long as boating is possible, there will always be crazy mechs like the A1 (personally, I think more hardpoint granularity is the solution to this issue).

[Goldsan]

Nostram, on 26 February 2013 - 11:07 AM, said:

In regards to top speed of the Catapult vs other heavies. Mostly cataphracts have the same speed capabilities, dragons can go much faster. How is it that Catapults are faster again?

A cataphract has the ability to go about as fast as your standard A1, but at the expense of firepower and safety.

Cataphracts have very low slung arms, which is bad in nearly every case. They have very exposed side torsos and a very flat torso, making it extremely easy to place shots on them. Not only is that an inherent weakness, but it is redoubled since it also means a death sentence if you use an XL in one.

Dragons can't fit anywhere near the firepower that catapults can, and it has an extremely prominent core, which is easy to hit at nearly every angle possible.

Neither have comparable levels of twist.

The catapult is not overpowered because of any one reason. It is overpowered because of the dozens of little reasons.

Great twist, great hard points, safe XLs, good speed, good survivability. It is blatantly the best heavy mech in nearly any application.

[LaserAngel]

Nostram, on 26 February 2013 - 11:07 AM, said:

In regards to top speed of the Catapult vs other heavies. Mostly cataphracts have the same speed capabilities, dragons can go much faster. How is it that Catapults are faster again?

XL isn't a vulnerability on the Catapult. The Cataphract has one of the worst hit boxes in the game on top of that. The only way to side torso the Catapult is from the side. I've been on a receiving end and giving end of that one.

So on top of the tonnage saved you get the speed with none of the vulnerability. You might as well take it since you're going to get CT'd to death in most matches like the Awesome. I can survive on my Standard Engine Catapults but maybe that XL speed to get out of there would have been a better asset.

[Jakob Knight]

It's nice to see the bigots haven't given up and remain as dedicated to eliminating a mech they don't play from the game. Or, at least, one they would like to see removed so their favorite mech doesn't have to fight it.

Truthfully, the only way this proposal would have a shred of credibility was if -all- mechs had similar restrictions placed upon them. There is zero reason to single out the Catapult beyond simply personal bais. It has its own weaknesses along with its strengths, and those who turn a blind eye to one while crying about the other are simply not being reasonable.

Somehow, though, those making these proposals feel their own favorite mech should be excluded from the changes they want to enforce on others.

Oh well. Haters going to hate.

[BoydofZINJ]

Itkovian, on 26 February 2013 - 11:22 AM, said:

In any case, the A1 is the only mech that's an issue, and once again that's more a problem with boating than with any specific mech chassis. So long as boating is possible, there will always be crazy mechs like the A1 (personally, I think more hardpoint granularity is the solution to this issue).

Then you never fought a LRM Cat with tag that was running away at a speed faster than most heavies and assaults - while firing LRMs. LRM cats are the only possible LRM mechs TBH - because of tactics like that and tag.

[RagenBull]

i must say the twist on them is out of controll

[LaserAngel]

Boydsan, on 26 February 2013 - 11:44 AM, said:

Then you never fought a LRM Cat with tag that was running away at a speed faster than most heavies and assaults - while firing LRMs. LRM cats are the only possible LRM mechs TBH - because of tactics like that and tag.

Forget the standard engine in my Catapult, I want some of that.

[Jakob Knight]

Infernus1986, on 26 February 2013 - 10:55 AM, said:

Coming from someone who has played catapults extensively and does very well in them its about time they fall back into there proper place as fire support and not the Swiss army knife of MWO.

And yet, when they attempt to do their job as fire support, you will post that they are 'boating', or that their weapons do 'too much damage'. Been there, seen it. Then there is the whole issue with ECM being introduced specifically to remove fire support from being useful in the game, further making configuring the Catapult for fire support crippling to a team.

No, the Catapult is just like any other Heavy (or any battlemech in the game)...able to be reconfigured within its hardpoint allocations to roles the pilot wishes it to do. This is especially important to the Catapult when the devs have undercut its ability to perform in its normal role and it must be reconfigured to function on a level equal to a Cataphract, Jagermech, or Orion.

Now, if they remove ECM and allow missiles such as LRMs and SSRMs to be viable weapons systems in stand-alone games, placing restrictions on -all- mechs to push them into their intended roles won't be crippling to just one battlemech in the game that people just can't seem to accept, no matter -what- it does short of being a hollow shell of armor on legs (and then, people would complain it is overarmored, no doubt).