127 replies to this topic

[BigBadHarv]

Nathan Bloodguard, on 26 February 2013 - 05:05 PM, said:

I was trying to be nice and ignore this, but you seem to misunderstand why people are acting the way they are. This section that you seem to be so fond of and quoting with someone else's quote is why people are saying you opened this thread up with flaming. You all but insult everyone else that disagrees with you and say they are nothing. They are all part of one group. You also splatter the rest of that post with 'look at me I'm so much better then the 95% of you.. oh wait i mean 94% because I somehow dropped in score... (That's because me and my bro got on :Joke:)

As the saying goes, you attract more flies with honey then vinegar (unless you are after fruit flies, but that's another thing all together) If you would just let this section drop or if you left those post alone and not bothered to react to them the 'flaming' might stop.... Oh and that does go for both parties. Because he is perceived to be flaming doesn't make it ok to flame him back...

hmmm, you are kinda right. it was a self indulgent thing to say but honestly, thats how i feel. i know im not the only one either.
it was good to get it off my chest though as years of those exact type of people takes its toll

Tarman, on 26 February 2013 - 04:59 PM, said:

Maybe when you grow up you'll come back to this thread and realize what a jerk you were in the opening, and how you basically invited people to come in here and snipe at you.

Or you'll continue life inside your bubble of smugness, content in the fact that the world is wrong, not you.

a jerk to whom? if you took offence to it, maybe you should wonder why instead of trying to get your own back. i was quoting it under other peoples quotes so as they might stop and think instead of acting in their usual way. again, if they feel insulted then they should wonder why that is.

Skizzak, on 26 February 2013 - 04:58 PM, said:

This is what I don't get. You say you hate stats and elo but you sure are damn concerned with having low stats or low elo. I have to assume that you want to be bigbadharv man on campus slappin the **** outa noobies and waving your testies in front of their cockpits. Yet you don't want to face the challenge of becoming said man on campus.

of course im concerned. what if i get a run of bad luck and am locked into oblivion for weeks at a time? i know exactly where the ceiling lies as far as my gaming skill is concerned and im comfortable with that. if you had read what i said properly then you would know that i have plenty experience with competitive gaming.
if you think that i think in the way you just described then thats fine, it already tells me enough

[Sacrosanct]

[Fenris Krinkovich]

BBH: You seem intelligent, but SWEET CHRISTMAS you have an attitude about it. The toxic, trash-talking communities you mention are a huge problem, true, but smug, self-satisfied and self-absorbed elitists like yourself are an issue on another level. I'm glad that you like playing video games, and I'm glad that you're a high-level player with a good (actually, pretty fantastic) grasp of English, but I'm sorry that you might have to spend some time in an elevator with someone who is beneath you. Half of your post (that isn't a blatant ego-stroke) is about how most gamers are complete and utter troglodytes, and the other half is about you might as well be their King. And just the fact that you still, three pages in, are hanging around waiting to pounce on anyone who calls you out by quoting your pre-emptive crap about how those of us with the GALL to be annoyed by what you've said are small-minded trolls proves only one thing: you're one of those jerks who GETS OFF on being right. At this point I don't care what your credentials are, I don't care how many times you've been around the world, and honestly I don't even care if your statement has any credibility to it whatsoever, because during, or perhaps because of, your complete and utter condemnation of the toxicity that can be found in gaming culture, you became an even more toxic part of the problem. Congratulations, dummy: You've let the trolls win.

[Kraven Kor]

Don't bother.

He has to be at the gym in 26 minutes, and we should all be honored to have basked in his presence

[1BigFool]

BigBadHarv, on 26 February 2013 - 05:24 PM, said:

a jerk to whom? if you took offence to it, maybe you should wonder why instead of trying to get your own back. i was quoting it under other peoples quotes so as they might stop and think instead of acting in their usual way. again, if they feel insulted then they should wonder why that is.

Again...read what you typed...and reposted. Perhaps you should take your own advice and instead of acting in your usual way, stop and think about the fact that you insulted a lot of people and are being a jerk. Of course people take offence to it! Jerks tend to make insulting comments and tell other people to "deal with it."

So go ahead and keep replying...or just do what you said you'd do...go.

Edited by 1BigFool, 26 February 2013 - 05:47 PM.

[Tarman]

BigBadHarv, on 26 February 2013 - 05:24 PM, said:

hmmm, you are kinda right. it was a self indulgent thing to say but honestly, thats how i feel. i know im not the only one either.
it was good to get it off my chest though as years of those exact type of people takes its toll




a jerk to whom? if you took offence to it, maybe you should wonder why instead of trying to get your own back. i was quoting it under other peoples quotes so as they might stop and think instead of acting in their usual way. again, if they feel insulted then they should wonder why that is.



of course im concerned. what if i get a run of bad luck and am locked into oblivion for weeks at a time? i know exactly where the ceiling lies as far as my gaming skill is concerned and im comfortable with that. if you had read what i said properly then you would know that i have plenty experience with competitive gaming.
if you think that i think in the way you just described then thats fine, it already tells me enough

Most people aren't personally injured by your ridiculous ranting; gradeschoolers have better specific taunts. What it DID do was make you look like a total burro even totally apart from this game or its forums, and provide an opening a klick wide for every forum sniper to put a couple rounds into a soft target.

If your goal was to make people think you are a tool even if they met you on the street, to the point where they'd rather avoid you because of your very nature, then your thread has been highly successful. Otherwise it may be time to take some time for personal evaluations.

[rgreat]

Fenris Krinkovich, on 26 February 2013 - 05:31 PM, said:

BBH: You seem intelligent, but SWEET CHRISTMAS you have an attitude about it. The toxic, trash-talking communities you mention are a huge problem, true, but smug, self-satisfied and self-absorbed elitists like yourself are an issue on another level. I'm glad that you like playing video games, and I'm glad that you're a high-level player with a good (actually, pretty fantastic) grasp of English, but I'm sorry that you might have to spend some time in an elevator with someone who is beneath you. Half of your post (that isn't a blatant ego-stroke) is about how most gamers are complete and utter troglodytes, and the other half is about you might as well be their King. And just the fact that you still, three pages in, are hanging around waiting to pounce on anyone who calls you out by quoting your pre-emptive crap about how those of us with the GALL to be annoyed by what you've said are small-minded trolls proves only one thing: you're one of those jerks who GETS OFF on being right. At this point I don't care what your credentials are, I don't care how many times you've been around the world, and honestly I don't even care if your statement has any credibility to it whatsoever, because during, or perhaps because of, your complete and utter condemnation of the toxicity that can be found in gaming culture, you became an even more toxic part of the problem. Congratulations, dummy: You've let the trolls win.

Denying truth because it hurt just makes things worse.
He is kinda right about most of things he mention.

As about being an *** and outright trolling - this thread is full of it.

Edited by rgreat, 26 February 2013 - 05:59 PM.

[ARCTICF0X]

BigBadHarv, on 26 February 2013 - 03:52 PM, said:

after talking with friends irl I've pretty much decided to pack it in early.
I know I know, drama llama etc. but I do have good reasons for this.

...

Still feel like I've been kicked in the gut

On many levels, I kind of agree with you. I also know that kindly telling a room full of people that they suck, will not encourage replies filled with rainbows and sunshine...

I know that is not what you were after in the first place, but your post is like some sort of trap whereby:

1) If you agree: You do not suck like everyone else, thank you for posting.
2) If you don't agree: You have no clue what you are talking about and are therefore one of the many useless people I mentioned that infect my internet daily.

I think the above is how people are basically seeing your thread and responses that followed.

It does sound like you need to take a break...

Or at the very least, print off a sign and put it at the top of your monitor that says [ It's Just A Game ].

When ever something bugs me too much, remembering that sentence helps me to put things in perspective a lot. I love this game too, but I love seeing a smile on my childs face more than any F2P online game :-)

[Fenris Krinkovich]

rgreat, on 26 February 2013 - 05:55 PM, said:

Denying truth because it hurt just makes things worse.
He is kinda right about most of things he mention.

As about being an *** and outright trolling - this thread is full of it.

Never said he was wrong, I just think he's a jerk.

[Rakashan]

BigBadHarv, on 26 February 2013 - 04:20 PM, said:

but yeah, asinine response with a more than veiled smugness and the limited depth I've come to expect from ppl on teh internetz nowadays

See, what makes this response so laughable is that you started the whole asinine, condescending comment thing with the paragraph you keep quoting from your original response. You have put your heart and your background out there for everyone to see and you've stated your initial assumption that anyone whose response you don't like is immature and/or uninformed. Given that you were better than 94% of the people in the game that means that for every 100 people out there, there were 6 better than you. Maybe you can game, but you certainly can't do math if you have not figured out that by this time that means that two or three of them are in this thread. Further, your assumption that being good at the game implies that you know how to design it has been refuted many times in many games down through the years.

The good news (from my perspective) is that I have been playing computer games longer than you have been alive. I've been programming professionally longer than you have been out of school (even if you dropped out when you were 12). And I've been playtesting and helping balance games longer than e-sport has been around.

So yeah, you told us what is bad about this community and you told us how sad that makes you and yet you never bothered to ask if anyone agreed with you. You came out here, threw down your gauntlet, called everyone immature and pathetic and then insulted the first person who responded to you with a condescending quote that essentially summed up your own behavior as much as anyone else in the thread.

As I said in my first post. When you want to grow up, finish being a special snowflake and actually talk about any of the subjects relevant to gaming and e-sport, you just let us all know by doing something other than dismissing every response that doesn't kowtow to your (finite) wisdom.

(TL;DR? Your behavior mirrors that of all the other apes on the internet who believe that they and only they have the key to supreme knowledge and anyone who disagrees with them is an ***** not entitled to an opinion, whether they would support portions of your argument or not.)

[Gaan Cathal]

It's all good, toxic speech, flaming and trolling apparently are because people are Bad At The Game. Interestingly, given his first post that is more or less a tacit admission that he is, infact, Bad At The Game.

No-one cares, really. No-one cares that you were not quite as good at DotA2 as you boasted you were, no-one would really care if you were. You think people do because the circle you associate with agree, and after a while of that you assume everyone agrees. It's perfectly natural, a kind of social confirmation. It's also dangerous and has in the past lead to injustice, war, prejudice and self important idiots making fools out of themselves on forums.

[rgreat]

Fenris Krinkovich, on 26 February 2013 - 06:04 PM, said:

Never said he was wrong, I just think he's a jerk.

Well, he definitely have low opinion on a majority of human populace.
It's very easy to come to this conclusion in a team based MMO.
Just have to look around for a while...

Bitter vet produce a meaningless rant thread.

Nothing to see here... Move along...

Edited by rgreat, 26 February 2013 - 06:15 PM.

[FerretGR]

Could have been said much more succinctly, OP, and that's a serious burn coming from me, the most verbose person you know.

Essentially, you don't like Elo-based matchmaking because you have had bad experiences with it in the past. But very similar approaches to matchmaking have been used (quite successfully) in games for years: Halo and COD, for example, use rank-based matchmaking, and have for years. I remember playing with a couple of my buddies who were way better than me and facing freakin' ninjas on the other side in Halo 3. It worked well, though... there was no talk of facerolling noobs because it didn't happen. The high level players were playing challenging games against other high level players.

So I don't want to get into a debate about it or anything, and I haven't read the rest of the thread and so I'm sorry if I'm parroting anyone, but I think your doom and gloom is unwarranted. For every game you can name with a ranking-based matchmaking disaster, I can name one with a near-perfect ranking-based matchmaker. Every indication is that the one in this game is doing a good job, IMHO.

Chill a bit and enjoy the game.

[DrSecretStache]

I agree with you to a large extent, and I'll swear up and down that people on the internet suck, but I try not to tell it to their faces, so that we can facilitate good conversation.

Honestly, with CW, It feels similar to how Planetside 2 will run, in so much that there will be a virtual galaxy, and this galaxy will have multiple territories open for the taking, and some that aren't, both for historical and gameplay reasons. As with Planetside 2, this doesn't require Elo at all, as players will be vying for specific areas of interest, and therefore should be paired up more by where they are, and less by how good they are.

That being said, until CW is in, I'll admit that having a matched system will feel good in the coming weeks, excluding the part where I still get completely pubstomped.

We'll see if this is what it becomes. If not, fine, they're still adding lots of content that I'm happy about, and if they do, I'll be one happy panda.

It might be worth remembering that while gaming may be considered a waste of time on this earth we live in, so is a lot of other things that we apparently think is better than gaming. Art, sports, TV. And yet we still do it, because damn, if we're limited in time on earth, then we might as well enjoy it.

TLDR, I agree nearly completely with you, but it might be worth rethinking what you said if you were looking for reasonable responses. Also, I feel unreasonably young.

[BigBadHarv]

Rakashan, on 26 February 2013 - 06:06 PM, said:

So yeah, you told us what is bad about this community and you told us how sad that makes you and yet you never bothered to ask if anyone agreed with you. You came out here, threw down your gauntlet, called everyone immature and pathetic and then insulted the first person who responded to you with a condescending quote that essentially summed up your own behavior as much as anyone else in the thread.

i didnt say this specific community, i was talking about online gamers at large. this community, for the most part, is one of the better ones ive seen, especially in this age.

its an insult if you are like the people i was talking about, if you arent, then surely it isnt an insult. its a potentially insulting because the subject is potentially an undesirable online. the paragraph was 243 words out of 1103.
but heres something i learned from other games. People are always thinking about the potential, especially when it comes to skill. you are potentially the worst person on your team, the majority of people would rail against that as its quite discomforting information. in this instance, people are potentially a**hats and are railing against it. if you arent, great. thats good news. if you don't like what i said, then maybe you should wonder why.
but with that being said, i should have known and i apologise. as i said earlier though, it was quite self indulgent.

if having high standards = being a special snowflake, so be it. im not going to drop my standards due to the actions of the masses. i never claimed to have supreme knowledge, though i did let it be known what experience i have on this subject. everyone deserves to have an opinion but its the weight behind it which gives it its tangibility. if Jonny X starts talking out of his ar$e then yeah, im going to immediately disregard his opinion on the subject and if Jonny X is doing that because he feels he has to out of some distorted sense of self pride then yeah, ill put their opinion down the memory hole

[XIRUSPHERE]

OP calls everyone horrible people and thinks he is growing up. OP does a better job of acting like a delusional primadona, I wish I had a tiara for you OP I really do.

[CaveMan]

[BigBadHarv]

Gaan Cathal, on 26 February 2013 - 06:12 PM, said:

It's all good, toxic speech, flaming and trolling apparently are because people are Bad At The Game. Interestingly, given his first post that is more or less a tacit admission that he is, infact, Bad At The Game.

No-one cares, really. No-one cares that you were not quite as good at DotA2 as you boasted you were, no-one would really care if you were. You think people do because the circle you associate with agree, and after a while of that you assume everyone agrees. It's perfectly natural, a kind of social confirmation. It's also dangerous and has in the past lead to injustice, war, prejudice and self important idiots making fools out of themselves on forums.

this for example, let me pull it apart and show what im talking about when it comes to opinions:

"It's all good, toxic speech, flaming and trolling apparently are because people are Bad At The Game. Interestingly, given his first post that is more or less a tacit admission that he is, infact, Bad At The Game."
I have to be bad because i said he could be potentially bad. not once did i state my skill level in this game. (honestly, i would say im pretty decent. i have good awareness and instincts and can read the enemy team well, this comes from my background in other games and a lot of the principles translate well to this game. I can be a bit too gung ho at times though and i could be more patient... if you must know )

"No-one cares, really. No-one cares that you were not quite as good at DotA2 as you boasted you were"
an assumption that has absolutely no purchase in reality. a guess because he wants to get a snipe in anyway he can. he thinks that something like this will hurt the most, probably to do with how he would feel if something similar was said to him, cant be sure though.

"You think people do because the circle you associate with agree, and after a while of that you assume everyone agrees. It's perfectly natural, a kind of social confirmation. It's also dangerous and has in the past lead to injustice, war, prejudice and self important idiots making fools out of themselves on forums."
ahh, a touch of the grandiose here. hints at fascism too, trying to associate describing what internet undesirables act like to very intricate politcal and social orders. its an easy one, the old fascism, something everybody can hate. also an assumption of me thinking that everyone agrees with what i said. what he is trying to do with that is show how disillusioned i must be so therefore, the rest of what i said cant and doesnt count.

so yeah, this would be a perfect example of an opinion i would ignore and for the reasons i stated above

XIRUSPHERE, on 26 February 2013 - 06:37 PM, said:

OP calls everyone horrible people and thinks he is growing up. OP does a better job of acting like a delusional primadona, I wish I had a tiara for you OP I really do.

not everyone. not once have i said that. why the assumption? what i have said is a majority of online gamers. i have also said that this community is also one of the far better ones

[Tarl Cabot]

BigBadHarv, on 26 February 2013 - 03:52 PM, said:

following on from this thread: http://mwomercs.com/...27#entry1952427 i posted on Sunday and after talking with friends irl I've pretty much decided to pack it in early.
I know I know, drama llama etc. but I do have good reasons for this.

I had been praying for a mechwarrior mmo for more then 10 years now.

I had never played an mmorpg before and they never really appealed to me, but alas, I was a major battletech fan. Me and my friends grew up with the mechwarrior games and books, heck I still have a long sleve polo t-shirt you got with mechwarrior 2: mercenaries around here somewhere. Needless to say, we were massive fans of the universe whether it was the books or the various games. When we saw that early trailer (3 years ago now i think?) we were so excited for a new mechwarrior game and it looked amazing.

You are still a young grasshopper. I have PLAYED in the last 3 Multiplayer Battletech, from 1992 to 2001, games that this one will be more closely related to than any other games, where I started off as a Chu-i, rising to the positions of Tai-shu, Gunji-no Kanrei and Coordinator of the Draconis Combine (pst, that is House Kurita ). I also played the original MW to MW4 Mercs, boardgames (I could make myself disappear in a lake with the minis I have). And hai, all polling devices have been destroyed (/watches them burn...) So I have been involved in the MPBT games even before or at the time there was a twinkle in someone's eyes...

In comparison, the only other non-BT/MW online game I have played consistently, afterwards, has been Everquest, to put things in some perspective from my viewpoint.

What they have taught me that anyone who comes in saying they do not plan on being part of anything cause of time constraints does not truly understand MWO will not be like other MMO. For the military arms of each state, it will be a 24/7 skirmishes on border/periphery planets, not a raid encounter set MTuesW at 8pm cst, meet up at 7:30pm and raid til 10pm. For those who like to win sometimes (ELO or not), they will want to be part of a House unit, mechwarriors they are familiar with, have trained with, and who will have your back at the same time you have their backs. And this is not a lance size unit, even if the drop only allows for a max of a lance teamed up, but a larger unit of people. People who will be familiar with the same jargon and expected tactics to be deployed. More organization that simply dropping in with a bunch of strangers.

Quote

we started talking about it, how we could be in the universe with our mechs, unit etc. We thought there would be this massive cool other end to the game where we could do planetary, fight the clans, take part in the history of the universe with thousands of other people and pretty much live the dream we had since we were 10 years old. but now, alas, the true colour of the beast has reared its ugly head.

See the above, your head may still be stuck in a paper bag re-enforced by plastic. You are currently playing the combat engine without a true community interface. Due to monetary and other reasons, this is about the only way MWO could be kick started off the ground. This phase of the game is one step down and sideways from MPBT Solaris (aka SVGA ) (1995 to 2001), closing when it was replaced by the short lived MPBT 3025. All the ELO tweaking and such will help when CW does go live. This will help ensure that for the most part veteran units and players will play more against each other, instead of farming the newbies, the green units and players.

Now, as having been a leader, doing anything less would have a dramatic and negative impact on the community overall. Private Bs, Heishi Ds and such would quickly tire of being dropped against Sho-sa E, Major Ks from veteran/elite units and leave the game. As for the atmosphere, you make of it as you will, and that starts with communication and community.

Quote

What I learned was that all of that, all the time spent chasing elo numbers and stats etc was basically putting a bunsen burner under the limited time i spend on this planet.

What I wanted from MWO was the dream game. Something I could come home to and play with the friends i (fortunately) still have.

The dream has not even started yet. See previous comments. Why are you still focused on ELO numbers/stats? That is PGI's job and data to mine.

Quote

..

No need to quote details, it "appears" the issues you may have are the same issues of those you despise. But there are always time to change.

Again, if you wish to not concern yourself with the numbers, then stop discussing it. If others bring it up, ignore it. Commenting on it only means it does affect you one way or another, and you end up reacting to it, thus you are no longer in control.

If this reaches open ears, grasshopper, tis first step in your travels.

Sayonara (bows)

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 26 February 2013 - 07:11 PM.

[Vahnn]

Dunno, dude. I don't know if I can agree with you. I feel your pain, but on the other hand...

I, too, was introduced to this Elo system from HoN, then LoL, and later Dota 2 (I never played Dota 1). I'm "hardcore" in that I play often, I always play my best, and I don't troll, I try not to argue with people, I try to be as positive and beneficial to my team in every game I play. And I have basically no problems with the Elo system. Not in any of these games.

When I started playing MWO about a month ago, there was no Elo system. As we all know, it was implemented about a week ago. All the games I had before Elo seemed.... Random. One game I could completely dominate, getting 6 kills, 2 assists, most damage done, no deaths on my team. The next game? It could be the same. Or it could be the exact opposite. Or it could be my team, full of PUGs, vs 2 4-mans. Usually not ending in fun. And, again, I say it was random.

Now we have Elo. It's basically the same , except instead of a straight stomp or utterly hopeless defeat, games seem to be more balanced for me. There are still occasions where my team will either dominate or lose as badly as it's possible to lose, BUT... It's more predictable. Those severely slanted games tend to come at the end of a long win/lose streak. And it is clearly attributable to moving up/down to the next/previous bracket due to considerable numbers of wins/losses, respectively.

And you know something? I encountered exactly the types of players you describe BEFORE Elo. And I still encounter them. I encounter them in games with dedicated servers, with no match makers or ranking/scoring system of any kind. Counterstrike, Natural Selection, Sins of a Solar Empire, Doom 3, Planetside 2, Red Orchestra 2: Heroes of Stalingrad, Supreme Commander 2, Team Fortress 2, WH40K2: Retribution, Battlefield:BC2, Sword of the Stars...

These types of players are encountered at every level in any type of game, the only difference with an Elo system is that you can predict when you'll start hitting a pocket of them and when you'll be relatively free of their bullsh*t. There is a percentage of the population which fall into the category of "Piece of Sh*t," and as the population increases, the number of these players increases. And in a F2P game, especially for an established IP like MechWarrior, once all the long-time, faithful fans have come, the only people to come to the game are random people just trying out a new, free game. And unfortunately, the percentage of d-bags in this group is almost always higher than than in the long-time fan group.

You know what I'm saying, this post is too long.