314 replies to this topic

[General Taskeen]

Kyone Akashi, on 27 February 2013 - 11:49 AM, said:

I don't think a slight nerf to the damage would change much. It'd hurt the normal SRM users more than the Splatcat, given that I doubt it matters much whether you're hit by 90 or "just" 72 points of AoE damage.

I like the idea of successive firing. Actually, I'd love if they would use this for LRMs, too, just for the "katyusha"-style visual effect.

I believe MW:LL took the idea originally from MW2.

If i recall corectly, Mech Warrior 2 used ripple-firing for any missile system for the aesthetic appeal. It can however be used as a balancing measure.

[Viper69]

I like the ripple fire idea. It sure would bring missiles back down a peg. Also it looks more realistic in the fact I have not seen an MLRS system shoot all its missiles in one big blob.

To be fair though, you would have to ripple fire the missiles concurrently not consecutively. So you would still have 6 missiles coming out rippling to the 36 instead of 36 all at once.

Edited by Viper69, 27 February 2013 - 12:00 PM.

[FupDup]

+1 to volley-fire style missiles. In MW4, SRMs fired their missiles 2 at a time (SRM 6 needed 3 volleys to get all missiles out).

MW4's LRMs were 5 at a time (each group of 5 was represented by 1 missile, though, so an LRM20 only appeared to fire 4 total missiles unless you looked really really closely).

Edited by FupDup, 27 February 2013 - 12:03 PM.

[Kyone Akashi]

Viper69, on 27 February 2013 - 11:58 AM, said:

Also it looks more realistic in the fact I have not seen an MLRS system shoot all its missiles in one big blob.

Yeah, it looks kind of ... dangerous with all those missiles flying so close to each other, does it not? Especially given the paths they take, circling around each other.

Viper69, on 27 February 2013 - 11:58 AM, said:

To be fair though, you would have to ripple fire the missiles concurrently not consecutively. So you would still have 6 missiles coming out rippling to the 36 instead of 36 all at once.

I'd say that should depend on the launcher module - meaning the component rather than whatever is slotted in its hardpoints.
I could see it work your way as well, though. I think either would be better.

[Bilbo]

Viper69, on 27 February 2013 - 11:58 AM, said:

I like the ripple fire idea. It sure would bring missiles back down a peg. Also it looks more realistic in the fact I have not seen an MLRS system shoot all its missiles in one big blob.

To be fair though, you would have to ripple fire the missiles concurrently not consecutively. So you would still have 6 missiles coming out rippling to the 36 instead of 36 all at once.

I'm not sure this would help the people who generally get abused by the build. It would look pretty cool though.

[xRatas]

Bilbo, on 27 February 2013 - 11:48 AM, said:

My friends don't need to draw, they simply need to engage. If I'm not close enough to take advantage or vice versa then, again, we are doing it wrong.

I'm still not convinced that brawling atlas would be superior in any way. Rather, it needs better teamwork and strategies than a mech that is good at engaging enemies on it's own terms. So basically, you need to come across certain handicap on your mech with tactics and strategies, do we agree on that? If you do it right, your slow fistfighter might be rather successful, but it really doesn't mean it is best suited to that.

I'm strongly along the lines, that slow mech needs long ranged firepower, where fast mechs may use short ranged weapons without much suffering in any situation. There are always buts and ifs to it, point still being, that A1 in it's current form IS better suited to pure brawling than Atlas, so by all means it is it's role, and it should be able to prevail in brawl. Current way ECM works makes sure, A1 can not be truly successful in any other role on it's own, Atlas on the other hand has plenty of choices.

Edited by xRatas, 27 February 2013 - 12:05 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Thuzel, on 27 February 2013 - 10:18 AM, said:

Beat that dead horse for a while, but not a lot of people wanted to hear it. My numbers, like yours, showed a 10 - 15% reduction should bring them in line.

And what does that do to the other mechs that DON'T boat them. Your numbers are myopic, and taken out of the proper context, hence, irrelevant.

[Viper69]

Bilbo, on 27 February 2013 - 12:03 PM, said:

I'm not sure this would help the people who generally get abused by the build. It would look pretty cool though.

Well, nothing will help people who cant get out of the way of a stream of missiles. I imagine ripple firing the equivalent of holding a laser on point except with minor splatter over a target area in a cone of effect radiating outward from its source. This would still give you the tight groupings people like close up while splattering around farther out and make missiles less like a shotgun round.

[xRatas]

Bishop Steiner, on 27 February 2013 - 12:05 PM, said:

And what does that do to the other mechs that DON'T boat them. Your numbers are myopic, and taken out of the proper context, hence, irrelevant.

If they deem those useless after that, they most likely install some other weapon instead... Wasn't hard, right? They are quite powerful right now, my lowly trebuchet can jump behind atlas and core it in about 12 seconds with just 14 SRM and few medium lasers. Seen some rage disconnects with that too.

[Thuzel]

Bishop Steiner, on 27 February 2013 - 12:05 PM, said:

And what does that do to the other mechs that DON'T boat them. Your numbers are myopic, and taken out of the proper context, hence, irrelevant.

It's math, and always relevant.

For any mechs that don't boat SRM's, they will probably not even notice the reduction. After all, a 15% reduction in 33% of a non-boating mech's firepower is only 4.9...%. So instead of doing 300 damage a match, it would potentially be 285.

This sort of change has maximal impact on boating mechs. All others would see no real difference.

-- Edit --
Ignoring rounding, 5% or 4.9% for ease in reading.

Edited by Thuzel, 27 February 2013 - 12:15 PM.

[Bilbo]

xRatas, on 27 February 2013 - 12:04 PM, said:

I'm still not convinced that brawling atlas would be superior in any way. Rather, it needs better teamwork and strategies than a mech that is good at engaging enemies on it's own terms. So basically, you need to come across certain handicap on your mech with tactics and strategies, do we agree on that? If you do it right, your slow fistfighter might be rather successful, but it really doesn't mean it is best suited to that.

I'm strongly along the lines, that slow mech needs long ranged firepower, where fast mechs may use short ranged weapons without much suffering in any situation. There are always buts and ifs to it, point still being, that A1 in it's current form IS better suited to pure brawling than Atlas, so by all means it is it's role, and it should be able to prevail in brawl. Current way ECM works makes sure, A1 can not be truly successful in any other role on it's own, Atlas on the other hand has plenty of choices.

No we do not agree. 1 v 1, I usually outbrawl an A1 even if it gets the drop on me. I don't own an Atlasthat has any long-range firepower and I pilot them 60-70 percent of the time. I never have any trouble getting into the brawl, whether I'm grouped or not.

[TheRulesLawyer]

You don't reduce the damage. This can cripple builds that use a minimal number of them. What you really need is a game mechanic that reduces the effectiveness off all weapons fired at the same time. That goes for lasers, etc too.

[Bishop Steiner]

xRatas, on 27 February 2013 - 12:10 PM, said:

If they deem those useless after that, they most likely install some other weapon instead... Wasn't hard, right? They are quite powerful right now, my lowly trebuchet can jump behind atlas and core it in about 12 seconds with just 14 SRM and few medium lasers. Seen some rage disconnects with that too.

or they COULD just address the REAL issue, and find workarounds to prevent boating? (similar to what I suggested, perhaps).

But no, instead let's keep yo-yoing all the gear in the game in an endless game of Buff/Nerf.

[Terror Teddy]

You know that would be rather nice.

If the SRM's would fire in volleys of 2 then you could lower the cycle rate of the launcher to say 1 but give it a 3 second 2+2+2 volley similar to the duration of lasers.

To balance this out I would lower their spread significantly since they now go after each other instead of a massed cluster that is intended to not crash into each other.

It would be more accurate hit-location wise but take more skill to fire a volley in the same location.

[topgun505]

Khobai, on 27 February 2013 - 10:29 AM, said:

In tabletop, not all the missiles are supposed to hit the target. But in MWO you have all the missiles hitting. That's where the damage imbalance comes from. SRM damage needs to be lowered slightly... although I feel their range should also be increased since every other weapon in MWO got a range increase except SRMs.

The TT damage is 2.0 per missile and as has already been stated only about half of the volley lands on target on average.

In MWO it is 2.5 per missile and generally ALL the missiles not only hit but usually hit only one or two locations because most experienced players hold their fire until they are very close.

If you wanted to bring down SRMs to have the same effectiveness as in TT you would have to reduce their base damage to 2.0 AND then further reduce it by another 40% to reflect the loss of damage due to volley miss (which doesn't happen here) so that results in around 1.6 damage per missile.

On a similar note, LRMs do 1.0 damage in TT but they deal out nearly double that in MWO.

[xDeityx]

Bishop Steiner, on 27 February 2013 - 12:16 PM, said:

or they COULD just address the REAL issue, and find workarounds to prevent boating? (similar to what I suggested, perhaps).

But no, instead let's keep yo-yoing all the gear in the game in an endless game of Buff/Nerf.

Boating will always have the advantage of being easier to use and the disadvantage of being inflexible. If boating too many of a weapon becomes a problem then the balance of that weapon should be looked at. In and of itself boating is fine and is not the "REAL" issue.

Edited by xDeityx, 27 February 2013 - 12:21 PM.

[xRatas]

Bilbo, on 27 February 2013 - 12:13 PM, said:

No we do not agree. 1 v 1, I usually outbrawl an A1 even if it gets the drop on me. I don't own an Atlasthat has any long-range firepower and I pilot them 60-70 percent of the time. I never have any trouble getting into the brawl, whether I'm grouped or not.

Not even in Alpine or Caustic? And not even ocassionally in Colony? Then I salute you as a great player. Every time I die in front of an brawler atlas, I blame myself, not the enemy. But that's just me. Maybe we meet on the battlefield some day and I get to see how it is done, life is learning.

Also, if A1 gets a drop on you, it should be able to take out another side of your mech with single alpha? But I guess we can then agree A1 far from OP, it can not even beat Atlas with a suprise advantage!

[Bishop Steiner]

Yes. SRMs doing .5 more damage than their table top version versus mechs carrying DOUBLE the armor is just so damn OP. Especially on weapons that can't hit the broadside of the barn at 200 meters.

Instead, let's further handicap any mech NOT carrying Streaks, that rely on SRMs as their primary weapon (now a similar damage nerf to Streaks, might actually be a fair balance), and further reduce any use of Commandos, HBK-4SP, Jenners, etc.

Because obviously by using SRMs, they are SO damn OP. I mean I know I sure tremble in my socks at non ECM packing stock COM-2Ds. with their Atlas slaying SRM6 and SRM4.

[KaoS Space Legion]

Ironbound, on 27 February 2013 - 09:40 AM, said:

And this is my formal apology to everyone. If you see me in game, I'm sorry, but I'm probably piloting a skillcat, and it's because when I finish the game with 1000+ damage and 3-5 kills, I want you to hate the mech as much as I do.

Maybe if you played against anyone with any kind of teamwork and skill on the regular you wouldn't be posting these kinds of numbers. The Buk4kk-a-pult is easy to shut down and turn into a zombie if you can aim and stop zoroing lasers or taking garbage snow flake builds.

[Voridan Atreides]

Bishop Steiner, on 27 February 2013 - 12:16 PM, said:

or they COULD just address the REAL issue, and find workarounds to prevent boating? (similar to what I suggested, perhaps).

Curious. What did you suggest?