117 replies to this topic

[WolvesX]

DO NOT SUPPORT

PAY-TO-WIN!

BAP

AMS

ECM

1.5 tons, 2 slots!

Greetings fellow BETA Testers!

BAP = 25% increased target range, 25% faster information, detect shutdown mechs under 120m

AMS = Shot down 1-8 LRM, 0-3 SSRM

ECM = Well, as there is no discussion about its OPness anymore I'm going to skip this part.

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ECM should be = decrease the range your mech is targetable by 25%, 25% slower information from you, can not be detected when you are shut down. Every mech should be able to get it.

That is the fair solution.

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PROS: more mechs would be viable. Game would be more fun.

CONS: You can't drive your L3 with closed eyes anylonger.

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Posting your opinion keeps the discussion alive.

Edited by WolvesX, 04 March 2013 - 06:14 PM.

[Cest7]

Rock paper scissors?

OnionRings!!!

[WolvesX]

Cest7, on 03 March 2013 - 03:47 AM, said:

Rock paper scissors?

OnionRings!!!

Yup, thats the way some guys thought ECM out.

[Calimaw]

IGP. Nope

More important stuff to do. Like determining the exact function behind word censoring / filtering.
Is it to filter REAL words... or the meaning behind the word, even if its a fake word?... Is it something that should apply to every one... or just whenever, whoever, whatever...?

They havent figured that out yet either.

It will take time for them to actually use a popular school of logic to apply towards game mechanics.

Edited by Calimaw, 03 March 2013 - 11:06 AM.

[Gregory Owen]

QQ

[Critical Fumble]

I insist that ECM be made to be a useful as an MG and one ton of ammo.

LOLOLOLOLOL

No, seriously, how many threads about ECM have you made over the last 7 days?

[WolvesX]

Critical Fumble, on 03 March 2013 - 04:01 AM, said:

I insist that ECM be made to be a useful as an MG and one ton of ammo.

LOLOLOLOLOL

No, seriously, how many threads about ECM have you made over the last 7 days?

Not enough.

[Thorn Hallis]

ECM = Eloquent Cries Magnet

[Gaan Cathal]

WolvesX, on 03 March 2013 - 03:38 AM, said:

ECM should be = decrease the range your mech is targetable by 25%, 25% slower information from you, can not be detected when you are shut down. Every mech should be able to get it.

Have to say I disagree. It doesn't have to be a complete inverse of BAP to make it balanced (and BAP could use a buff anyway).

IMO ECM should:

1- Allow LOS targeting of friendlies w/in radius by enemies at any range, but not allow transfer of that information to their team (inclusive of the 'untargeted hostile marker')
2- Remove ECM-friendly IFF markers from hostile minimaps w/in radius, this should only provide a 'signal jammed' message to BAP-equipped mechs (which should obviously not cover their minimap)
3- Negate the effect of Artemis IV and TAG on any homing missiles fired at friendlies w/in radius
4- Negate the effects of hostile BAP modules w/in radius
5- Negate hostile ECM units w/in radius when run in Counter Mode, at sacrifice of all other abilities

NB: I am aware that currently, 1 and 2 are essentially the same. However I think BAP needs a short-radius ability to cause hostile IFFs to appear on radar irrespective of targetted status.

In tandem with this, SSRMs need fixing (yes, it's bloody related) and BAP and AMS both need buffing. BAP as above, AMS just needs a slightly higher LRM killrate and a substantially higher SSRM killrate.

Edit for explanation:

This would mean that ECM has two distinct roles - defensive (1,3) and offensive (2,4). Counter Mode remains as is, since ECM superiority would no longer be as impactful on match result.

Edited by Gaan Cathal, 03 March 2013 - 04:15 AM.

[WolvesX]

Thorn Hallis, on 03 March 2013 - 04:05 AM, said:

ECM = Eloquent Cries Magnet

Its going for months now, the discussion is over, the only thing left it the FIX.

[Voidsinger]

I think what really irks people is the fact ECM works in Line of Sight.

At that point, passive sensors should allow full targeting.

If it needs communications, ECM should effect it.
If it needs Radar, ECM should affect it to varying degrees.

If missiles are terminally guided on launch, ECM should not effect it.
If missiles get updated guidance during launch (aka NARC, Artemis), ECM should effect it.

ECM should never effect any line of sight targeting or detection.

[MechWarrior849305]

Why don't you like AMS that much? It's almost useless ATM, can't hit even two missiles, and you want to add one more slot to it?

[Satan n stuff]

DuoAngel, on 03 March 2013 - 04:41 AM, said:

Why don't you like AMS that much? It's almost useless ATM, can't hit even two missiles, and you want to add one more slot to it?

AMS + 1 ton of ammo is 2 slots genius.

[MechWarrior849305]

***** n stuff, on 03 March 2013 - 04:54 AM, said:

AMS + 1 ton of ammo is 2 slots genius.

I thought he had suggested to add one slot to AMS itself, that would be 2+1 actually

[Kassatsu]

Matchmaker needs to take ECM into consideration, should be an equal number on each team, and yes that means a D-DC might be matched up against a Commando, but that's already happening anyways.

Other than that, people just need to learn how to effectively counter it, even without the hard counters PGI keeps adding to the game.

Then again I also wouldn't mind an ECM actually being an ECM, reducing detection range on friendlies by a set amount, making locks harder etc., not being this magical bubble that prevents people from detecting you at all without a hard counter until you're already in their face.

[MustrumRidcully]

Voidsinger, on 03 March 2013 - 04:36 AM, said:

I think what really irks people is the fact ECM works in Line of Sight.

At that point, passive sensors should allow full targeting.

If it needs communications, ECM should effect it.
If it needs Radar, ECM should affect it to varying degrees.

If missiles are terminally guided on launch, ECM should not effect it.
If missiles get updated guidance during launch (aka NARC, Artemis), ECM should effect it.

ECM should never effect any line of sight targeting or detection.

I think this is a pretty good guideline. I'd say a more reasonable effect for ECM regarding missiles would be if it would cause a chance for the missile to lose its target and simply veer off, hunting the pretty ECM lights.

[Team Leader]

While that would certainly make ECM far more balanced, and I would prefer it to what we have now, I don't think that's what it's actually supposed to do. Switching that to its functions would be good though until they can actually flesh out its role

[Livewyr]

Interesting discussion.

Hints for people who continue the fight:
If there are no downsides to it at all: It is not balanced.
If matchmaker has to balance how many are on each team to make sure one side doesn't get more than the other. It is not balanced.
If, in whatever case you make for it being balanced, replacing "ECM" with "Gauss Rifle" makes it sound silly, your argument for it being balanced is probably silly. (Conversely for arguments against its balance.)
If an equal item or mechanic in the game coming from a different direction or effecting a different item makes you feel uncomfortable, the item or mechanic you are discussing is not balanced.

Continue and have fun.

[Byk]

The definition OP gives for what an ECM should do is the best one I've seen yet.

[Doc Holliday]

Kassatsu, on 03 March 2013 - 04:58 AM, said:

Matchmaker needs to take ECM into consideration, should be an equal number on each team, and yes that means a D-DC might be matched up against a Commando, but that's already happening anyways.

Other than that, people just need to learn how to effectively counter it, even without the hard counters PGI keeps adding to the game.

Then again I also wouldn't mind an ECM actually being an ECM, reducing detection range on friendlies by a set amount, making locks harder etc., not being this magical bubble that prevents people from detecting you at all without a hard counter until you're already in their face.

I propose a new laser.

Super Mega Laser

Does 25 damage. Generates no heat. Weighs 1.5 tons and takes 2 crit slots. Does not use a hard point. Has max range of 1500 meters. Fires purple beam. Can only be used on JR7-D, CLPT-A1, HBK-4SP, STK-5M and CTF-3D.

It will be fine because matchmaker will make sure there are an equal number on each team.