567 replies to this topic

[RapierE01]

Nice against the Thermal using snipers spam and more than enough for normal fighting.

Good Job

[3rdworld]

Thontor, on 08 March 2013 - 06:31 AM, said:

While I understand where you are coming from... Thermal was never meant to be used for long range sniping.. Its meant for low visibility situations like smoke and fog.

I do think the long range game should be supported and that'll come eventually with improved zoom modules, etc.. And I think the devs agree

Change head shots to long range and you get the picture:

The command chair post says all modes should be able to see 700m. That is a direct nerf to anyone capable of making a shot beyond 700m. A direct nerf to all weapons capable of shooting over 700m. And a direct buff to all brawlers.

So I get to set on my hands waiting for the advanced zoom to take up a module slot on my mech so that I can compete with a brawling atlas that mounts the most modules in the game?

This is absurdity. case and point. If people using thermal to snipe was not intended they need to buff the other modes to see that far, not nerf sight range which causes a slew of problems I have laid out.

I also love the "new modules will let you shoot far" quip. Let me guess, they will be available for MC as well.

This is a joke.

Edited by 3rdworld, 08 March 2013 - 06:47 AM.

[slimenator]

I love it! Keep on tuning the Game! You hooked me since November

[NitroBurst]

3rdworld, on 08 March 2013 - 06:24 AM, said:

Why do I care about ecm masking heat? I can peal the armor off of an atlas at 1000m pretty easy. You are letting the D-DC get closer at the start of the fight. That is a huge buff for a mech as large and slow as an atlas. I can place rounds consistently on targets over 700m currently as can most skilled pilots. This nerf to range buffs brawlers while limiting sniping.

Ok good sir, I commend you for being a skilled long range shooter. I mentioned the fact of ECM not masking heat as a reminder because we are talking about visuals here (eyeballing the battlefield) with different vision modes (not sensors). Does it nerf sniping? I agree, for the situations that require sniping and you don't need the other vision modes to see the target aka. you can see them in normal vision mode.

3rdworld, on 08 March 2013 - 06:24 AM, said:

How is 700m realisitic? You know that is not even half of a mile correct? My eyes would not have any trouble spotting a 3-5 story mech walking around at half a mile.

Very true, but again it would apply to a situation where normal vision grants you sight of the target to begin with.

3rdworld, on 08 March 2013 - 06:24 AM, said:

What do you possibly gain by limiting my vision? Oh it prevents nubs from getting destroyed from 1000m but that is it. It does nothing positive than buff bads.

It only limits your vision if you can see the target to begin with in regular vision mode.

3rdworld, on 08 March 2013 - 06:24 AM, said:

The modes don't need pros and cons. They each just need a purpose. winter maps ->heat vision. Clear maps->normal. Night maps->night vision. People use thermal now because it is the only way to see a mech at over a 1000m (you know the effective range of half of the weapons). If Night or normal could see that far, I would use them. But nerfing my ability to see that far is absurd.

It's not whether the visions need to have pros and cons, it's that they are/should be inherent already. Normal vision is the most suitable for almost anything, except in those situations where there is more than meets the eye? lol Like you said, Clear Maps = normal vision almost all the way. There is no need for Night Vision because on the contrary, you cannot see anything (Con of NV: cannot operate effectively in well lit areas). Thermal spectrum might be useful here of course, but would lack some effectiveness (Thermal spectrum can only see so far before things blurr and disappear).

Now, here is where Thermal would shine in my book: night ops (this with NV back and forth is one hell of a combo in this scenario). I say this because your regular vision effectiveness is cut down to say 750 meters. But with NV or Thermal you can see better at night and your range effectiveness increases lets say to 900 meters (these are just example numbers inside this sci-fi world). Another example is the blizzard map (i forget its name) where in the regular spectrum you cannot see too far ahead of you. But with Thermal, your range effectiveness is increased to the solid 900. Why? Because the blizzard and smoke doesn't impede this vision mode.

This is why I believe it is not a good idea to make all vision modes the same stats because some are so specialized that they have/should have drawbacks in the game. They each need a purpose and you highlighted part of my answer in your post. They are meant for those situations where your regular vision is impeded in such a way that they are better to see with, but not as effective as regular vision.

PS: all numbers used in this particular post of mine are not real. They were conjured up in order to provide clear examples of range changes and such.

Edited by NitroBurst, 08 March 2013 - 07:22 AM.

[3rdworld]

Thontor, on 08 March 2013 - 07:02 AM, said:

Not exactly:



Not all modes... Both, as in night vision and thermal...

Normal vision will still be able to see well past that, as seen in the screenshots of Alpine.

Better zoom combined with normal view and you will have no trouble sniping at long range.

Will low visibility maps like river city night and frozen city be bad for snipers? Absolutely. I don't see a problem wih that, just like I don't see a problem with specialized short range mechs being less desirable on alpine.

Normal vision is worthless. It has no contrast between mech and background. It is still as worthless for sniping as it is currently. See river city. Clear map bases around 1000m apart. Impossible to snipe with normal vision. Soon to simply be impossible to snipe.


Oh look at his post. You can spot a brown spot on a white map. Whoopity do. Most of the maps are brown and it would be impossible to see that mech standing on anything but snow. Certainly not clear enough to hit it consistently.

Edited by 3rdworld, 08 March 2013 - 07:15 AM.

[cmdr_scotty]

i'd very much like to see some test screen shots of frozen city with the new enhancements to the night vision/thermal modes.

frozen city (day) was about the only map that i would really use the thermal, and that was so that i could at least see infront of me a bit more due to the fog/weather density

[Side Step]

Quote

tuned to work well out to a distance of 700 meters

This doesn't necessarily mean you can't see mechs from distances greater than that. I'm guessing you can still see a mech standing in the middle of the water on Forest Colony at ranges over 700. You probably just can't make out mechs at great distances as easily in areas where the heat is more varied.


Anyhow, I like these changes a lot. I can't wait to try them out!

[Statixstorm]

I noticed your example at the bottom of the page for snipers was using Alpine, what about River City night? with these new modes it looks like it'll be back to brawling, which will gimp you for the larger maps that are to come as you cannot select maps.

[EvangelionUnit]

the new modes look great, navigation with the NV should be a lot easier, maybe the team can scale it on every map so that we can use it in caves or darker areas too.

for HV, flammer should be able to heat up objects on the maps, so that this kind of weapon becomes usefull on all kind of mechs ... (want to troll the hell out of enemy HV snipers? light up buildings in the base at the start of the round?!)

and i srysly hope that the sniper mode will be free scalable with the mouse wheel or something, so that people with the sniper module aren't limited to sniping.

[uebersoldat]

Excellent work as usual gents, thank you!

[Cybermech]

some nice work, can't wait to use them..
though this might ruin a long range snipers day, hope for not too long

Anyways +1

[Calamus]

I like it. I think this is a move in the right direction.

Although the extended use of thermal didn't really bother me, and to be honest I hadn't given the view modes much thought, now that you've mentioned the change, I think it's a good move.

[Mechteric]

I like it! I think I'll go ahead and try to not use thermals and get used to normal vision (at least on normal maps, river city night and the snowstorm will still require it to be at all effective...)

[Elyam]

Glad to see some work on the vision modes. Looks promising, but I'll hold any stronger opinion until using it live.

Perhaps the color-gradient vision can be brought back in some form for the mag, I think it would be apppropriate.

[3rdworld]

Thontor, on 08 March 2013 - 07:13 AM, said:

That's cause our zoom options suck. Better zoom would definitely make this viable. And they said t was coming.

Again. So my sniper mech gets to be relevant by taking up one of its already limited module slots (2). While 2 of the most powerful mechs in the game, have the most modules.

And this is another time of "deal with the suck until we put in a new feature to make it suck less". (likely for MC).

Just make all of them as good as thermal is currently, and this problem is non existent.

[WolfmanPraxis]

I like the proposed changes to vision modes, more true to the books and how the technology works in real life (yeah yeah I know its only a game); and I say this a GaussCat Sniper.

Will this lead to the 4x Zoom Module being overhauled though? As it stands Its only good as a monocular rather than a enhanced sniping scope IMHO.

[Atheus]

Looks great, Matthew. Make it so!

[Barkem Squirrel]

I like the thermals, since it is close to the white hot that I am use to seeing. The night vision is also close to what I am use to seeing.

I have two question for the night vision.

• In desert environments or other rural area how will the night vision work with the amount of ambient lighting? There is my experience: Cloudy nights in remote areas I have had night vision devices only see in the area exposed to the infrared lighting due to no ambient light being present. Also it is the same in underground areas. Head lights do not show up a mile away on nights that are just pitch black. It was a different world finding this out.
  
• If we have infrared lights can we turn them off? Again here is my experience: I have used this to an advantage by not having my infrared lights on and waiting with just night vision on, and using the others infrared lights to expose them when they were close enough.

[3rdworld]

Ibrahim al Arkab Hatomoto, on 08 March 2013 - 07:32 AM, said:

I see less sniping from the upper base in River City. Nothing at all wrong with this. The night vision does look more closely like what current gen NVS render. Thermal does look like thermal. Make it so, coders, make it so.

So there is nothing wrong with being able to use weapons designed to shoot 1000m to hit targets at 1000m.

How people are okay with not being able to see anything is completely beyond me.

[Deathlike]

At least Night Vision won't look like the MWO matrix in the near future...