567 replies to this topic

[Tice Daurus]

OMG! I can now count the days with happiness and glee to getting less headaches when using thermal and night vision with the new changes! This cannot go into effect soon enough! YAY!

Seriously, the new thermal and night vision modes look incredible and it is a HUGE improvement to what's in place now.

Thank you thank you thank you THANK YOU!!!!

[Finestaut]

Looks like a huge improvement. Good job.

[NRP]

I really like the look of the new vision modes. Since it seems now one would need to quickly switch between 3 different vision modes, can you also make it so we can program more than 5 mouse buttons? I have a Logitech G700 and I would love it if I could use more of its buttons in MWO.

[Viper69]

What is weird though. Check out the new flir tech. That Flir can see a rabbit making sweet love in the weeds at 1000m.

Check out this video of a truck being tracked by Flir. This is daytime so the roads are obviously warm, but this helecopter has to be very far away and look how hot the exhaust pipe is. Now our mechs presumably woould be fairly warm, especially if they were active and running and firing.
http://www.policeone...Tracking-Truck/

Also I would like to know if a thermal image is brighter the hitter the target is. Also why the backslide in tech and why design a game to look like tech we have now?

[keith]

basically untill the zoom mod(thats been broken long then thermal/NV)gets fixed, we are gonna go back to brawler online. GG

[3rdworld]

Thontor, on 08 March 2013 - 07:48 AM, said:

The only weapons designed to shoot at 1000m is LRMs. Other weapons can do that, but they weren't designed to, that's why they do less than full damage at that range.

The ERPPC is the longest range as far as full damage goes.. 810m, not 1000m

And I really don't think it'll be as bad as you seem to believe... Most of the time I can see and shoot targets at 1000+m just fine with normal vision... The exception being the low visibility maps of course.

The current thermal vision just makes it easier to spot mechs because they stand out from their environment. Too easy IMO.

Your right. Sniping is way to easy. We should nerf it so people start using Skill-RMs.

[Cabusha]

This looks fantastic!!! Thank you for the update. I'm very pleased to see that they're both limited to 700m or less. Being able to snip in heat at 2K was a bit absurd.

Looking forward to being able to use this in game.

Edited by Cabusha, 08 March 2013 - 08:09 AM.

[1453 R]

Night Vision actually useful rather than an eye-straining travesty: check.

Thermal Vision making more sense and offering concrete ups and downs compared to NVS: check.

All the so-called snipers b*tching about having to actually acquire their targets again rather than just shooting at magical blue blobs with Batman Vision (completely against the original intent of the system, no less!): check.

Update looks complete, Bob. Pack it up and ship it out.

On a more serious note...thanks. I dislike navigating with the current thermal vision, but the NVS' overwhelming glare made it physically painful to use for any length of time. This system looks like a good one; flip between modes based on what you need at the time rather than having One Single Viable Option on any given map. And hey! Now all the folks who hit H at the start of every match can spend a little time enjoying the scenery, checking out all those paint jobs from Camo Spec 2 they've been missing out on. All to the good, eh?

Edited by 1453 R, 08 March 2013 - 08:11 AM.

[sj mausgmr]

I like it

[3rdworld]

1453 R, on 08 March 2013 - 08:10 AM, said:

Night Vision actually useful rather than an eye-straining travesty: check.

Thermal Vision making more sense and offering concrete ups and downs compared to NVS: check.

All the so-called snipers b*tching about having to actually acquire their targets again rather than just shooting at magical blue blobs with Batman Vision (completely against the original intent of the system, no less!): check.

Update looks complete, Bob. Pack it up and ship it out.

On a more serious note...thanks. I dislike navigating with the current thermal vision, but the NVS' overwhelming glare made it physically painful to use for any length of time. This system looks like a good one; flip between modes based on what you need at the time rather than having One Single Viable Option on any given map. And hey! Now all the folks who hit H at the start of every match can spend a little time enjoying the scenery, checking out all those paint jobs from Camo Spec 2 they've been missing out on. All to the good, eh?

nubs happy they aren't getting shot at realistic distances. Check.

Cabusha, on 08 March 2013 - 08:09 AM, said:

This looks fantastic!!! Thank you for the update. I'm very pleased to see that they're both limited to 700m or less. Being able to snip in heat at 2K was a bit absurd.

Looking forward to being able to use this in game.

Here is a vid of a guy picking individual people out with thermal at 5km. but ya i guess 3050 tech is only 14% as good as what we currently have. Oh and this is an attachment to a rifle, not a 100 ton war machine.



see 2:18

Edited by 3rdworld, 08 March 2013 - 08:16 AM.

[Apnu]

Neat stuff, thanks for posting it. Going with the gray scale in thermal vision is the right move. But I think the mechs should stand out more, they are walking nuclear reactors after all.


Can we see what mechs heating up look like in the new thermal vision?

As for the night vision, that looks more like the real world stuff, which I think is your point.

This video: shows consumer grade thermal vision and at 3:53 we see night vision. What does night vision it look like when light is introduced (such as AC flare, lasers, and exhaust from missiles.)

Further to that, wouldn't it be cool if mechs had spot lights? Like the unseen Warhammer -- yeah I said it, but having a search light would be really interesting on night maps like River City Night.

[kaddar]

Here's a way you could make heat vision really effective and not all that annoying: Overlay heat vision on top of normal vision. In the night map, heat vision would have very similar views to what you've shown, but on the day version, it would actually look mostly like a normal day map, except that you can see mech signatures through trees easier, but ranged visibility would decrease and thermal vents create distractions and mechs on caustic have slightly less visibility. You could say, pick out a sniper easier behind a tree using heat vision at 400m, but easier at 600m with normal vision. however it's more of a toggle than a quick check.

That'd minimize "spectator annoyance" and it would make it so you don't have to flicker back and forth between two modes.

Edited by kaddar, 08 March 2013 - 08:21 AM.

[Apnu]

3rdworld, on 08 March 2013 - 08:14 AM, said:

Here is a vid of a guy picking individual people out with thermal at 5km. but ya i guess 3050 tech is only 14% as good as what we currently have. Oh and this is an attachment to a rifle, not a 100 ton war machine.

Keep in mind that in 3050 technology was still being "rediscovered" from the dark age following Kerensky's exodus. In BT lore, many manufacturers hardly knew how their factories worked and knew about enough to keep them going. That's why the Gray Death Memory Core was such a big deal.

[BloodLegacy]

Night vision looks spot on now. My criticism for thermal is not that the terrain heat is shown too high, but that mechs heat signiture is too low. On a cold map a running battlemech should stick out like a beacon even if their heat isn't particularly high. Conversely on a map with high ambient temperature the heat signiture would be more blended with the background making it nearly worthless. Also, in all forms of thermal imaging since the '80s the image is crisp and clean, not fuzzy or blurred as shown.
Also, I would like to be able to switch between white-hot to black-hot on the fly please.

Essentially, thermal should be useless on Calderra, but on Alpine it should be the mode of choice because a mechs heat is so much greater that the environment that they stand out more.

Still a huge improvement, I love the return to grey scale thermal.

[jay35]

Aside from limiting visibility to 700m on half the maps, yeah, it's great.

Expect even less build diversity as the number of "safe" builds one can take into random map drops and not put their team at a tactical disadvantage is reduced to short to mid-range brawlers, because taking a long-range build other than an LRM boat, will now be significantly inferior to brawler builds on roughly half the maps you might drop into, instead of being competitive on any map. Any night-time or reduced visibility map will now be a deathtrap for long-range builds. Fine if you know the map before dropping and can select a more appropriate build and have a fair chance of competing. Unacceptable in a random map situation, as it will always result in one team having less viable builds than the other team through no fault of their own, and no matchmaker ELO can account for that.

It dumbs down the game even further, and the "solution" to this artificial limitation that imbalances the game will be to sell you more modules that improve your vision modes. It doesn't matter if it's c-bills or MC, if you think some players having access to a vision advantage in an FPS game is reasonable, I'm not even sure where to begin to educate you.

That many appear to be okay with the changes is understandable. They're the ones who typically whine about nerfing things that aren't actually imbalanced. So if they think this is a good thing, it's a good sign it really isn't. Few of them really understand gameplay balance or the impact of these changes on gameplay, so that's to be expected. What they haven't even considered is how this will also negatively effect, among other things, Light mech scouting ability and slow Assault mechs being able to see where enemies are at a distance and either close to engage or attempt to give them a wide berth. It reduces tactical awareness and "nerfs" gameplay strategy and battlefield tactics. And if you think it's annoying now to locate and chase down that last remaining enemy, good luck when you are limited to seeing 700m on half the maps. There is nothing positive about that.

Edited by jay35, 08 March 2013 - 08:31 AM.

[JimSuperBleeder]

Now my eyes wont EXPLODE when I get river city night, eight times in a row.

[Storyteller]

I think I like both visuals, but I have to check it ingame first, if it comes live some day. ;-)

[Almeras]

thanks god. I was getting so fed up of heat vision

now when can we have this please..............

[MasterBLB]

First,I'm most pleased you took my criticism seriously.

Now,let's talk about vision modes tweaks.

1.Night Vision
The improved version is so superior compared to the current one there is nothing more to say on this subject.Oustanding job guys,moreover I'm glad I see you devs do listen our feedbacks and proposals.

2.Thermal Vision
This one also looks good so far.Please only ensure that mechs are still easily recognizable from background,as that is a sole purpose of thermal vison.
But before any changes be aware that for now thermal vision is the only solution for screen pitch black darkening bug while heavy laser/ppc fight,which occurs especially on Forest Colony.Do not forget to test new ThV in such conditions.

3.Thermal Vision vs Night Vision
The main problem is thermal vision is more modern solution for night seeing than night vision.All greater attempts to balance it are doomed to fail,and moreover they could impact gameplay experience badly.
The easiest way to diversify these modes is to make each one better at something.For example,make thermal vision better at fighting (long range sniping as well),while night vision could be better for travelling.

4.Final conclusions
Not only the proposed changes are nice,but what is far more promising is the fact you've started cooperation with us.Well,I'm certain now,when both developers' and community's creativeness is joined a Golden Age for MWO will come

Btw,though these basic concepts are very promising it'd be really helpful if you devs could make some short videos showing these tweaked modes in action on various maps - something like you showed for the last artemis improvement.

Ah,and for the main thread in Command Chair it might be usefull to add a poll somelike:
Do you like these changes:
Yes,very much
Yes,but there is something you could do better
No,I think they are not good

Edited by MasterBLB, 08 March 2013 - 08:41 AM.

[Skyraxx]

I like it, good work.

Now I won't have to imagine the predator noise every time I switch to heat vision.