340 replies to this topic

[Ohari]

Now I do not disagree that a MG will VERY QUICKLY destroy a weapon on an unarmored section of a mech. I also confirmed this doing my own MG test on testing grounds. However, when I ran my MG build in live matches I noticed something.Even though I was destoying a enemy mechs weapons, at the end of the match I would NOT have credit for destoyed components. I would only get credit if I blew off said limb. So, its great for the overall team win by disarming any given mech...but you wont get any credit for it.

Now my observations very may well be incorrect so if any one can confirm or deny this please do.

[coolnames]

Terror Teddy, on 09 March 2013 - 12:06 AM, said:

Ok, in the case of the Spider with 1 energy mounts and 4 ballistics.
How the hell will that spider manage to do anything worthwile in a one on one fight?

It would be pretty damn tough...so, the better strategy would be to avoid a 1v1 with that mech/loadout Hover around a pair of atlas legs

Ohari, on 09 March 2013 - 12:11 AM, said:

Now I do not disagree that a MG will VERY QUICKLY destroy a weapon on an unarmored section of a mech. I also confirmed this doing my own MG test on testing grounds. However, when I ran my MG build in live matches I noticed something.Even though I was destoying a enemy mechs weapons, at the end of the match I would NOT have credit for destoyed components. I would only get credit if I blew off said limb. So, its great for the overall team win by disarming any given mech...but you wont get any credit for it.

Now my observations very may well be incorrect so if any one can confirm or deny this please do.

No I think you are right in that the 'component destruction' cbill bonuses you get in game refer to when entire sections of a mech are destroyed, not the equipment/weapons.

[Terror Teddy]

coolnames, on 09 March 2013 - 12:21 AM, said:

It would be pretty damn tough...so, the better strategy would be to avoid a 1v1 with that mech/loadout Hover around a pair of atlas legs

Yea, I agree with the tactic and working as a light scout/support mech but what I DO find wrong is that it is a way of shoehorning a mech into that role by making his weapons ineffective in one vs one.

A mech should be able to stand on his own in a battle and by making the MG's as they have certain chassis will have problems with this.

Take the Piranha mech with X12 machine guns
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Piranha

It's a 20 tonner with 12MG's that blows through 1 tonne of ammo in 16,6 seconds to do 80 damage. 4 small lasers do that in 20.

Sure, it is a clan mech and have 3 energy weapons as well but it becomes essentially USELESS in regards to where its primary firepower is.

And one cannot say that 12 MG's are a backup weapon.

[Siliconwolf]

Mavairo, on 08 March 2013 - 11:09 PM, said:

Choice between MGs or more AC10 rounds.. and an upgrade to an SRM6 from an SRM4.

Yeah.... no brainer.
Choice between MGs or maybe a pair of sinks?

Sinks.

There's a reason people above the Suck Tier of play don't actually use the MGs on anything but a drunken bender build. They suck, and fail.

That really depends on the chassis in question and the situation you're in. If you dealing with a KT and you're going with ERPPC, you're generating a fair amount of heat and you have a cd on your main weapon. You can add more lasers as a secondary weapon, but that is just adding to the heat issue. 2 more heatsinks isn't going really fix the heat issue either. 2 MG gives you a no-heat secondary that could score you some destroyed components and extra c-bills at the end of the match (didn't realize it wasn't counting them toward component kills). Maybe they have wrecked armor in a non-critical section with a weapon or something in it. You can use the MG to take out that weapon while you're working on their CT or something. It's situational and not something I'd favor putting on my own mechs, but I could see how others might find them useful. I don't recall Coolnames ever saying that MG are great for competitive play either. What you're saying is that the top people, using their best mechs, never use MG for competitive play. That has nothing to do with the topic.

Edited by Siliconwolf, 09 March 2013 - 12:33 AM.

[coolnames]

Siliconwolf, on 09 March 2013 - 12:28 AM, said:

I don't recall Coolnames ever saying that MG are great for competitive play either. What you're saying is that the top people, using their best mechs, never use MG for competitive play. That has nothing to do with the topic.

You tell him!

Only the very best mechwarriors in my book rock MGs!

Terror Teddy, on 09 March 2013 - 12:28 AM, said:

Yea, I agree with the tactic and working as a light scout/support mech but what I DO find wrong is that it is a way of shoehorning a mech into that role by making his weapons ineffective in one vs one.

A mech should be able to stand on his own in a battle and by making the MG's as they have certain chassis will have problems with this.

I am ok with the 5k being 'limited' as it is now. If I want a change of pace, I will use another mech/variant.

And man, that piranha is pretty awesome

[Johnny Reb]

I think only use them when you got nothing left to spend tons on and space, instead of ams or don't care a about ams!

[Sifright]

Jman5, on 08 March 2013 - 04:34 PM, said:

Keep in mind that I'm still experimenting with the machine gun. I think it's a complicated weapon that has more advantages than it seems.

One thing I find compelling about the machine gun is versus the assault mechs which have a lot of internal hitpoints. If you know the variant's hardpoints, you can gimp it in a surprisingly efficient manner. For example: An Atlas D-DC who has lost his torso armor still has 42 hitpoints to eat through. If you can get just a few second burst from a quad machine gun you could disable 3 SRM 6s, or an AC/20. Suddenly, the big bad atlas is nearly completely neutered.

It's a strategic scalpel that seems nice in certain scenarios where something is too beefy to just lop an arm off in one alpha strike.

Anyway, I'm not convinced it's good, but I'm not convinced that it's as terrible as some people claim. I'll continue working on it to see if it's just a high learning curve weapon. At the very least it will help me learn the variant weapon hardpoints better.

42 hits points of damage can be doled out by pretty much any mech medium and above instantly in a single salvo.

The mg guys strips the equipment
The pure damage dealer blows the section to scrap in the same time frame and probably kills the enemy mech as well or at least blows an arm off with it.

[Sifright]

Mavairo, on 09 March 2013 - 12:06 AM, said:

How is that BM?

You're either intentionally giving people bad advice so you can make people easier for you and your buddies to pop.

Or, you have no earthly idea what you're on about in regards to weapon performance. Lemme guess you're one of the 2 guys that disliked my vid, because it popped your bubble that MGs aren't worth the tonnage or crit slots they consume.

I mean seriously, if watching the dissection of a Kitty Cat's ears vs it's weapon disarmament wasn't enough for you (and the blowing off of the ear came just as fast as the actual weapon destruction), or Cataphract, or Awesome for that matter, what else needs to be said really?

Literally one shot of difference, that was it between 2 MGs, or just blowing the ears, Arms, and ST weapons off. You're trading 2 tons and 3 and a half seconds for... one shot which comes much quicker.
Look, if you think their cool, that's fine. But they aren't good performing weapons. And talking like they are is damaging not only to the community as a whole, but to the devs as well. Since the devs will have conflicting feedback.

^ The above

[Helven]

I am more curious on the caliber these "MG" are using vs the caliber of these mech "armor". If it is not comparative. Them why? 2 why questions would be why would you have them, then the other why would you have such a low caliber? The other would be.. I don't know what the other would be; besides decimating infantry.

[Sifright]

Helven, on 09 March 2013 - 02:24 AM, said:

I am more curious on the caliber these "MG" are using vs the caliber of these mech "armor". If it is not comparative. Them why? 2 why questions would be why would you have them, then the other why would you have such a low caliber? The other would be.. I don't know what the other would be; besides decimating infantry.

They use 20MM bullets/shells

[Terror Teddy]

Helven, on 09 March 2013 - 02:24 AM, said:

I am more curious on the caliber these "MG" are using vs the caliber of these mech "armor". If it is not comparative. Them why? 2 why questions would be why would you have them, then the other why would you have such a low caliber? The other would be.. I don't know what the other would be; besides decimating infantry.

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/M61_Vulcan

And calculating the weight they use 4-5 of them.

[Super Mono]

coolnames, on 09 March 2013 - 12:50 AM, said:

You tell him!

Only the very best mechwarriors in my book rock MGs!




I am ok with the 5k being 'limited' as it is now. If I want a change of pace, I will use another mech/variant.

And man, that piranha is pretty awesome

So you agree that machine guns aren't competitive and that the 5K is 'limited' which is a nice way of saying garbage, and you're still insisting on arguing that this is fine? I'm glad Elo means I won't ever have to suffer having you on my team as you plink around with machine guns instead of just using an actual weapon.

[Budor]

Still need a buff. Leave crit multiplier as is and add dmg. Thank you PGI.

[liku]

Budor, on 09 March 2013 - 03:23 AM, said:

Still need a buff. Leave crit multiplier as is and add dmg. Thank you PGI.

It's fine for me, let's buff it!

I like to see the whining about unbalance, i will enjoy it the fulliest

I did more than 50 game instead of going to sleep, i actually TRIED the way the guy said and it require skill,off course it's harder for people who'r accusted to ecm+streaks and blindly fire thinking they are über.

First i comboed with my 4X and one teamate with a 4 PPC 3D, but i laked some fire power and armor,then i switched for dragon (less speed more armor and more firepower)


The big thing it lack now is reflecting the damage it done for the end of game screen. But as i play to have fun i dont care for the result.


If you'r good enough to use 2 differents kind and weapon, and aim precise shot at specific location while in real combat situation, MG will always come over the top in that role in every situation.

Maybe in assault, due to the fact that almost always it is 8 vs 8 arcade shooting and the fasted to focus win, you will not see well the difference, but in a combo, it's the diedliest weapons. Largest map will prove it right, people are changing the way they play, before Alpine they were no reason to take ERPPC nor ERLLas over standart PPC or LLas, it's the same here.

I watched many fight where atlas were engaging one on one stripping each others armor, the one getting out on top were always those who add better AIM, torso roll and heat management skills. When MG skills will surface it will really change everything.

When they will count damage toward internal, those using MG the way it's meant, will always top the score board, just mark my posts.


This is for real, i wont argue anymore to try to educate or give tips about the effectivness of this weapon here, you have to try for yourself, if you cannot use it well it's only meant that you lack the skills for using it. But even if you lack the skill, you can be skilled for others thing, and i respect the way people play and get fun, the thing i dont tolerate is the way to critticize, about thing and leading people in the wrong direction.


as a side note i'll be happy to meet the detractors in game, looking down on the MG users, until they realize they got no weapons left... then gets stripper from arms, torso.... it was the same about case, now everybody who's cary some ammo use them.

[Budor]

liku, on 09 March 2013 - 03:55 AM, said:

...

ooooooooh kaaaaaaaaay...

[MustrumRidcully]

THe reason this thread is still going:


I guess ultimately it's selective perception at work. The players that like the MG only see the situations where they did have an MG and it destroyed internal components. They did not experience the same fight with them having a different weapon that could deliver more damage for the whole fight, and how this would have lead to a different and much better outcome.

[Vassago Rain]

liku, on 09 March 2013 - 03:55 AM, said:

SWToR drone makes a bad post.

Cut down on whatever substances you're obviously taking on a regular basis.

[Sifright]

liku, on 09 March 2013 - 03:55 AM, said:

It's fine for me, let's buff it!

I like to see the whining about unbalance, i will enjoy it the fulliest

I did more than 50 game instead of going to sleep, i actually TRIED the way the guy said and it require skill,off course it's harder for people who'r accusted to ecm+streaks and blindly fire thinking they are über.

First i comboed with my 4X and one teamate with a 4 PPC 3D, but i laked some fire power and armor,then i switched for dragon (less speed more armor and more firepower)


The big thing it lack now is reflecting the damage it done for the end of game screen. But as i play to have fun i dont care for the result.


If you'r good enough to use 2 differents kind and weapon, and aim precise shot at specific location while in real combat situation, MG will always come over the top in that role in every situation.

Maybe in assault, due to the fact that almost always it is 8 vs 8 arcade shooting and the fasted to focus win, you will not see well the difference, but in a combo, it's the diedliest weapons. Largest map will prove it right, people are changing the way they play, before Alpine they were no reason to take ERPPC nor ERLLas over standart PPC or LLas, it's the same here.

I watched many fight where atlas were engaging one on one stripping each others armor, the one getting out on top were always those who add better AIM, torso roll and heat management skills. When MG skills will surface it will really change everything.

When they will count damage toward internal, those using MG the way it's meant, will always top the score board, just mark my posts.


This is for real, i wont argue anymore to try to educate or give tips about the effectivness of this weapon here, you have to try for yourself, if you cannot use it well it's only meant that you lack the skills for using it. But even if you lack the skill, you can be skilled for others thing, and i respect the way people play and get fun, the thing i dont tolerate is the way to critticize, about thing and leading people in the wrong direction.


as a side note i'll be happy to meet the detractors in game, looking down on the MG users, until they realize they got no weapons left... then gets stripper from arms, torso.... it was the same about case, now everybody who's cary some ammo use them.

lol whilst you prance around in your mg boat i'll just end you with a few srm salvos.

no worries mate.

edit: actually no i won't. Elo means i'll never see you.

Edited by Sifright, 09 March 2013 - 04:06 AM.

[Vassago Rain]

MustrumRidcully, on 09 March 2013 - 04:04 AM, said:

THe reason this thread is still going:


I guess ultimately it's selective perception at work. The players that like the MG only see the situations where they did have an MG and it destroyed internal components. They did not experience the same fight with them having a different weapon that could deliver more damage for the whole fight, and how this would have lead to a different and much better outcome.

Or they're crazy, like the guy posting huge tl;drs above. Take your pick.

[Super Mono]

liku, on 09 March 2013 - 03:55 AM, said:

My buddy in a 3D poptart carried me hard while I faffed about with machine guns, this is why machine guns are great!