181 replies to this topic

[StalaggtIKE]

Baltasar, on 11 March 2013 - 08:40 PM, said:

The problem with this, is that the LRM20 cat is probably not the one spamming the missiles...its the assaults such as a 3 lrm 15 carring over 2000 missiles. I run 2 LRM15s carry just over 1000 missiles and if I run out (which I get close on a lot of maps) I'm still only averaging 500 to 600 a match because people know how to hide from missiles. And that's with me being judicious with my firing and not firing blindly.

I fail to understand the problem. Do, you prefer I use a different mech as an example? I used the CAT because it is a practical LRM boater.

[Nightcrept]

I can't tell how many of you guys are new and simply don't remember the progression of lrm balancing and or how many of you simply have bad memories.

Lrms progressed from 1.0 up to 1.9 damage. We often had 4 or more lrm mechs in a game. Then the artemis Apocalypse patch changed the flight path and speed of lrms. So for a week or two lrm's could go over any terrain and drop straight don on your ct and head with the accuracy of a ppc.

You really could 1 shot many mechs and two shot even a atlas on occasion. Even over the highest hills and buildings.

We all screamed omg op.

The devs started nerfing missile speed, flight paths, spread and damage.

Damage was reduced to 1.6 then up to 1.7 and finally 1.8. That is were lrms found balance mid nov just before the ecm patch and were they still are today.


The last patch changed the flight and made artemis only work when fired with line of sight. The change to the flight path is actually a bug fix. The bug which some who played against me watched me use from time to time was that you could sometimes get a game were you could get your missiles to go into a x shape and then pinch in at a certain distance to fit into the width of a ravens leg.

They do not hit with more4 regularity or damage then before.

What we are getting is the omg they made a ninja buff change conspiracy theories we get anytime lrms get any change at all.

[Hellboy561]

LRMs need their ammo dropped down to Canon which is 120 rounds per ton. Then lets watch the forums explode!!

[Onmyoudo]

Due to what I assume is terrible luck and a still-broken matchmaking system, I constantly find myself in teams completely lacking in ECM versus enemy teams full of Stalker LRM boats and D-DCs. It is incredibly frustrating to have to sit behind a hill and not move for an entire match in order to not die, and you can guarantee that your team-mates will not be as patient leading to yet another boring 8-0 stomp.

[Joe Mallad]

Kaziganthi, on 11 March 2013 - 09:12 PM, said:

Why are you even bothering with trying to nerf lrms before the clan weaponry comes out, you think they're bad now...get used to it.

The moment Clan LRM's with NO minimum range, and half their weight are introduced the amount of "NERF LRM's" will fill the first 3 pages.

yeah and once we get clan LRMs that can hit you at point blank range (like you said) and still do 1.8 damage... Watch how many people scream they want LRM damage nerfed lol. People scream at 90 points of SRM damage to the face now. While 2 LRM 20s to the face is only 56 damage... That's still enough to strip a center torso from most mech and or down a light and some mediums. People are going to scream for them to get nerfed down in damage. Mark my words. And most of those screaming will be those here saying the damage is ok or even needs a buff lol.

Edited by Yoseful Mallad, 12 March 2013 - 05:16 AM.

[Aym]

AMS is a joke against any LRM "boat" Stalkers usually fire about 60 LRMS at a volley, a full lance of AMS won't knock out half of those. One ECM will though, so ECM needs balancing and they're doing it.

However, LRMs are only usefull against pugs and only on certain maps. There needs to be some brainstorming with PGI regarding changes to the LRMS to make them more useful in the LRM10 range as a single launcher on a mech, because that is currently a silly use of tonnage.

Personally I'd like to see their damage dropped significantly, but their flight speed increased dramatically. Their heat should come down a bit too. Way I see it, if you want it to be more of a support weapon or something you don't mind using w/out boating reduce the opportunity cost while across the board. Lower heat means they're less of a liability, same with increased flight time. If you're still worried about boating, increase the cool down so that with less damage per missile and less frequent volleys they're less effective as a primary weapons platform, but viable in smaller numbers.

Well that's my idea, what's yours?

[Wolf Clearwater]

I would be ok with the current damage if there was no splash damage. The splash damage makes the missiles do way more than 1.8. This would still be over powered but manageable. Missiles, ALL missiles, need to do less damage. LRM should be 1.1 or 1.2 at max, SSRM/SRM should be 1.6-1.8.
There is already a thread for this under game balance:
http://mwomercs.com/...m-streaks-srms/

edit: bad spelling before coffee.....

Edited by Wolf87535, 12 March 2013 - 05:24 AM.

[Calem]

Wolf87535, on 12 March 2013 - 05:22 AM, said:

I would be ok with the current damage if there was no splash damage. The splash damage makes the missiles do way more than 1.8. This would still be over powered but manageable. Missiles, ALL missiles, need to do less damage. LRM should be 1.1 or 1.2 at max, SSRM/SRM should be 1.6-1.8.
There is already a thread for this under game balance:
http://mwomercs.com/...m-streaks-srms/

edit: bad spelling before coffee.....

Are you kidding? Are you playing a different game? Challenged by dividing numbers?

Go read the ample data provided my people posting their weapon stats. Maybe read post #140 in this very thread. LRMs do LESS than 1.8 WITH ammo explosions included.

[Wolf Clearwater]

Don't take my word for it, try it yourself, take an SRM2 to the training grounds. shoot the commando from 40-50m (to avoid spread) in just the center torso, then compare that to using just a medium laser.
edit: Little harder to see with LRM, that is why I suggest the SRM

Edited by Wolf87535, 12 March 2013 - 05:52 AM.

[Fut]

Davers, on 11 March 2013 - 04:46 PM, said:

If damage was lowered there would be no point in having one LRM launcher on your mech. It would be completely useless. Isn't it bad enough that everyone uses SRMs as it is (And streaks before that until ECM)? Let's just add LRMs (one of the most common equipped weapons in BT, right behind medium lasers) to the pile of weapons that just don't perform.

Exactly this. Weapons cannot be balanced by looking at how effective they are when Boated on the biggest 'Mechs. All that does is make them useless on the smaller 'Mechs who can only carry a couple. This goes for all weapons, not just LRMs. They need to be balanced on a "Stock" 'Mech (ie. 1xLRM15.. not 4xLRM15).

If this results in Boats dishing out shitloads of damaged, so be it. Try to find ways to counter those Boats, there's got to be a way to counter them because they've dedicated so much of their build to one weapon system. So either take the advice of all the people talking about ways to counter LRMs, or take some time to figure out your own ways. Just know that there are ways to counter LRM Boats.

[Jakob Knight]

Until the situation with ECM changes, I don't see the situation with LRMs changing. Hense, I dont' see any reason to change them until that happens.

[Nunspa]

while I know how to use cover... some maps just don't have enough cover to deal with LRMs...

I agree, down tweak the damage a little... 1.5 sounds reasonable

[Calem]

Wolf87535, on 12 March 2013 - 05:51 AM, said:

Don't take my word for it, try it yourself, take an SRM2 to the training grounds. shoot the commando from 40-50m (to avoid spread) in just the center torso, then compare that to using just a medium laser.
edit: Little harder to see with LRM, that is why I suggest the SRM

I can't test that atm, so I will have to take your word for it. You might have encountered a case of this (might want to reread the whole thread): http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__1760319

Quoting Thomas D.:

Quote

Also I incorrectly stated that Missiles always do just FULL damage, but this is incorrect. Looking at my old code and this being by design ; the percentage of damage done to the component is the percentage the explosion engulfs. But because we use bounding boxes around components for this calculation they sometimes overlap resulting in possibly dealing more damage than the explosion is set to do. (up to 20% or so but depends how the mech is built)

You mentioned a commando, since it's tiny it might have said overlapping hitboxes and thus indeed have suffered more damage.

However, that damage would add to that weapon's stats, and this is where things stop adding up:

My actual ingame SRM damage average (damage / hits) is 1.93, leading me to believe that contrary to Thomas D.'s statement there IS damage loss somewhere, as an averaged 1.93 is way below 2.5. Same goes for LRMs, 1.64 average here vs. 1.8 on paper. This goes even moreso as weapon damage is believed to include ammo explosions (safe assumption for ballistics, not sure about other weapons). Wonder how the man would explain this?

Regardless of numerical discrepancies I'd agree with you SRMs may need another look balance wise; A1, 4SP and 9A are overly popular variants for a reason.

[Harmin]

CCODEZ, on 11 March 2013 - 04:33 PM, said:

1 LRM20 is fairly painful but bareable and not all that game changing. 2 is starting to get a bit hotter but you might just close the gap. The problem is the boating several launchers/weapons and having trace drawbacks to doing it.

If 8 people use 1 LRM 20 each, if you get hit, thats tactics and you deserve pain. Give 2 mechs 4 each and you have effectively given the other 6 players free tonnage to take harder more accurate weapons or equiptment.

Why not 5 x LRM20

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...99934158b4be1d3

[StainlessSR]

The main problem of LRM's post Artimis swirl is the severe concentration of damage to one area when boats (mechs with more missiles than ports) fire a swarm. The damage would be ok if it was not hitting like the pre-nerf SSRMS. The spread needs to be slightly increased and there needs to be a delay in the firing of swarms. In example a 3xLRM15 DDC has 26 ports, so it would fire 26 then a 2-3 second delay, then 26 (2 launchers enter cooldown), then a 2-3 second delay, then 8 (last launcher enters cooldown), this would negate the huge swarms of missiles that make AMS pointless and insta-core an Atlas in two quick Alpha launches. LRM's are supposed to be a support weapon (support means to help put additional damage onto a target helping mainline mechs), not a main battlefield weapon as it is now being used. I have been in beta for awhile and have seen the strength of LRM's (especially boats) bounce back and forth from OP to fair to UP, with this latest update they are now into an OP phase.

Edit: spelling and ease of reading

Edited by StainlessSR, 12 March 2013 - 07:44 AM.

[Ph30nix]

xRatas, on 11 March 2013 - 10:36 PM, said:

LRM boats hit real hard now. My awesome was oneshotted with and 4xLRM20 stalker head on just yesterday. It ripped of all my left torso & CT armor, destroyed left torso completely, and left CT internals dark red. Was only yellow on my armor before that hit.

Not that I didn't deserve it by shutting down on the open, but was more than a little suprised about the amount of damage I received in one salvo.

But that's just more rock/paper/scissors gameplay, LRM are still quite easy to avoid, it just punishes real fast and hard now if you forget being careful.

wait your suprised by the damage you recieved while you were out in the open vs a mech armed with 4 LRM 20?? please reread that a few times lol it took about 80 missles to do that kind of damage.

[Fut]

Ph30nix, on 12 March 2013 - 08:53 AM, said:

wait your suprised by the damage you recieved while you were out in the open vs a mech armed with 4 LRM 20?? please reread that a few times lol it took about 80 missles to do that kind of damage.

Exactly this... Why are people surprised when extremely large amounts of LRMs deal extremely large amounts of damage?

[Furmansky]

Biggest difference post last patch that there are actually some missiles flying in bigger numbers now, not very much more...
Mostly you guys complaining about them just gotten lazy... time to wake up, stretch fingers, use more WASD keys and AMS.
Cheers

[M4NTiC0R3X]

You may think you're overpowered because you can get the damage out with relative ease over a quick period of time.. but you're not. The only point in boating LRMs is the 'over a quick period of time' part... sheesh, grab a calculator will 'ye?

(boats are not optimized, key letters OPtimized.)

Edited by M4NTiC0R3X, 12 March 2013 - 09:13 AM.

[Coolant]

Just don't understand LRM's are overpowered threads. Get behind cover, they are not direct fire weapons. You are even told they are coming. And, there are specific electronics geared toward reducing damage. Really, LRM's overpowered? If you complain you are out in the open by yourself. They could double the damage from LRM's and they wouldn't be overpowered...

Edited by Coolant, 12 March 2013 - 09:52 AM.