148 replies to this topic

[Sifright]

last i heard community warfare was going to be released 90 days after OB started.... hahahahaha

[Agent of Change]

Thuzel, on 12 March 2013 - 06:45 AM, said:

I hate to be that guy, but why??? ECM was implemented some 4 months ago and they've had enough negative and constructive feedback to choke a donkey. Honestly, it's mind boggling that we've gotten this far without a really significant change (Btw, the "PPC fix" isn't a significant change). If they haven't gotten the message by now, then why waste your time?

That's kinda the point though. If you have reach that point the only way to "not waste your time" is to leave. It has been my experience that Livewyr has been a thoughtful, even handed, and constructive member of these forums for almost a year now. Yeah he goes over the top IMO with the length and detail of his posts, but damn if it doesn't show the though put into it.

The only reason I say that is that as a forum regular I've seen the OP champion this game as much as the next guy. After the effort he has publicly put into trying to communicate with people, provide constructive suggestions, and help people. This is not a love letter this is just to say when a person who has proved his dedication to the game in such a positive and visible way says "whelp, I'm just about done" I pay attention.

Edited by Agent of Change, 12 March 2013 - 06:56 AM.

[Thuzel]

Thontor, on 12 March 2013 - 06:50 AM, said:

So? Plenty of games have been in beta for even longer.

It's important to be realistic about the development timeline. What we've sen so far is supposed to be only the core mechanic. It's essentially just deathmatch, or in the case of conquest, deathmatch with a twist. We've spent an entire year testing deathmatch. We haven't even seen the meta game or even other game modes.

The development cycle for this game is very very slow, and that's a problem because people expected us to be a lot further along at this point. I'm not entirely negative about this game, PGI has done some great things, but they either need to speed up or give us some open and honest communications about where they plan to be in 6 months.

Otherwise we'll continue to see more burnout.

[Shismar]

Kodiak Steiner, on 12 March 2013 - 06:27 AM, said:

As it stands I have not logged into the game for months and I will probably keep it that way. I will log in at launch and learn the game at that point and accept it for what it is at launch.

I said all of that to say - if the OP started playing at launch rather than all these months in beta enduring change after change it would be different. ECM's, Missles and whatever else people are crying over these days will have been dealt with and balanced (hopefully)

There may not ever be a "launch" in the sense you understand it. Nor a "finished game". That is the nature of the MMO/F2P beast.

Sure, they may at some point tag a 1.0 on it and drop the beta. But this does not mean that the game will actually be finished. (It just means that some apologists lose an argument.) It could also shut down for business reasons before this is ever the case.

Play it when you like playing it. I think the best time to play is always now.

[Thuzel]

Agent of Change, on 12 March 2013 - 06:55 AM, said:

That's kinda the point though. If you have reach that point the only way to "not waste your time" is to leave. It has been my experience that Livewyr has been a thoughtful, even handed, and constructive member of these forums for almost a year now. Yeah he goes over the top IMO with the length and detail of his posts, but damn if it doesn't show the though put into it.

The only reason I say that is that as a forum regular I've seen the OP champion this game as much as the next guy. After the effort he has publicly put into trying to communicate with people, provide constructive suggestions, and help people. This is not a love letter this is just to say when a person who has proved his dedication to the game in such a positive and visible way says "whelp, I'm just about done" I pay attention.

Extremely well said, and I can't agree more.

[Noobzorz]

Mongoose Trueborn, on 12 March 2013 - 06:12 AM, said:

It's all because of Livewyr i'm sure.

Forum tears probably didn't hurt, but you're definitely correct that further whining is probably unnecessary.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

I didn't read everything.

I agree that ECM is messed up, and that definitely hinders my enjoyment of the game.

But in the end my problem is that I still think the matchmaker is FUBAR.

It's been what? A month since Elo?

I'm still seeing a fairly large amount of stomps. Some of it's due to disconnects.

But a lot of it comes from ECM distribution, mech type/weight distribution and this concept of allowing larger and larger spreads of Elo the longer the matchmaker takes time to match.

Then throw in disconnects and what not which further mess up matches.

Ontop of that the fact that the matches really give no real gain or loss. While I'm not advocating repair/reload it's not like winning or losing a match matters.

I'm waiting for the Highlander. I have 30k gxp banked and enough c-bills to buy one and could buy two right off the bat if i cared to play that much.

Yes I realize CW is eventually on the way. But can this sustain itself for another 5 months?

It just feels shallow.

Then you throw in poor dev communication and it further exacerbates the problem.

[Lyrik]

Agent of Change, on 12 March 2013 - 06:55 AM, said:

The only reason I say that is that as a forum regular I've seen the OP champion this game as much as the next guy. After the effort he has publicly put into trying to communicate with people, provide constructive suggestions, and help people. This is not a love letter this is just to say when a person who has proved his dedication to the game in such a positive and visible way says "whelp, I'm just about done" I pay attention.

His posts were not positive feedback but just whining with too much text. A waste of this writing skills.
There is a difference between giving feedback and trying to dictate while having tunnel vision.

[CL_Kodiak]

Tie Ma, on 12 March 2013 - 06:31 AM, said:

by that logic nothing is ever OP. LRMs that do 3 damage per missile will simply be a change. Not sure if a person who hasnt played in motnhs can say anything about ECM balance.

My post was pretty generic - I was saying any system good or bad in the eye of the beholder is moot if he never plays till launch. His first taste of it will be all he knows, and won't be comparing it to hows things were without it or when it was OP / not OP.

He will have never known.

It's also pointing to the fact that many people here are just playing the game to play Mechwarrior and not help out and provide feedback. Through my own exp I learned I had no business playing the beta, and would rather enjoy a finished product at launch. I could bypass all the ranting on these forums and skip all of the headaches of an unfinished game.

That being said - My hat is off to the people actually here playing this game now and working through all the problems to bring someone like me a finished product that is true to Mechwarior. When I was 20 I had the mindset to beta - but I'm approaching 40 and figured against beta for this title. I like Mechwarrior too much to be so frustrated with it day and in and day out..

[Agent of Change]

Lyrik, on 12 March 2013 - 07:05 AM, said:

His posts were not positive feedback but just whining with too much text. A waste of this writing skills.
There is a difference between giving feedback and trying to dictate while having tunnel vision.

All of them or just the ones you disagreed with? There is a serious problem with myopia on this forum i agree to that, it's primarily the prevailing "If I don't agree with it clearly it's just whining." attitude.

Edited by Agent of Change, 12 March 2013 - 07:08 AM.

[Chavette]

Lyrik, on 12 March 2013 - 07:05 AM, said:

His posts were not positive feedback but just whining with too much text. A waste of this writing skills.
There is a difference between giving feedback and trying to dictate while having tunnel vision.

I agree, less is more, same point translated to less words is a better writing.

[Arkmaus]

Tie Ma, on 12 March 2013 - 05:40 AM, said:

its k i've pretty much written MWO off.

they said it was working as intended because some poeple liked it and some people didn't. but theres ahuge logic hole there.

Most people don't like it and a few people do.

I think what theyre going for was more of a some people like to bring it and some people don't want to bring it. but really right now its everybody wants to bring it. nobody likes it, but everyone has to use it.

but it shouldn't come as a big suprise. there have been many cases showing you why PGI can't make good development decisions.

It's good you have written the game off but still take time to post.
Bravo.

[Sheraf]

Mongoose Trueborn, on 12 March 2013 - 06:04 AM, said:

Many LRM noobs really hate ECM eh?

What if they normalized ECM and put LRMs back to 1 dmg where they belong. I bet that wouldn't make you guys happy either.

The only thing that will make LRM noobs happy is making LRMs OP so that they can still be bad at the game and ***** faces like the better players currently do.

Good player = Make whatever mechanics in the game work.
Bad player = Complain about how the mechanics are broken.

So you are a good player. Any change to the game will never effect you, not a single bit, because you can make whatever mechanics in the game work. Why do you even worry about whether ECM is here or not?

Back to the ECM issue, this module only has advantage. If it is available to any mech, I'll always carry it. Some people in other ECM post has suggested that either we make ECM has a limited active time and a long cool down, just enough to allow ECM to be out of danger, or divide ECM into multiple modules which it has replace, Angel ECM, Guardian ECM, Null Signature System, etc..

[Sifright]

Agent of Change, on 12 March 2013 - 07:08 AM, said:

All of them or just the ones you disagreed with? There is a serious problem with myopia on this forum i agree to that, it's primarily the prevailing "If I don't agree with it clearly it's just whining." attitude.

gaaawd agent of change why you got to whine about their whining if you were a better forum warrior you would adapt to their whining instead you whine their brain mechanics are broken. learn to forum warrior noob.

Edited by Sifright, 12 March 2013 - 07:10 AM.

[jay35]

I feel the same way as the OP, except not about ECM. Rather about:

• the ELO creating terrible matchups that make the game extremely un-fun to play half the time (reference)
  
• the random map nonsense that invalidates the point of the mechlab, camo, colors, and build strategy. What some here fail to realize is that the more variety of maps that are released, the increasingly restricted set of uniform, "safe" builds remain
  
• the Raven chassis hitboxes or armor, whichever causes it to be way too tough. Yes, ECM and Streaks makes the 3L particularly deadly, but they're not actually the real source of the problem with the Raven

On one hand, I'm ready to pick up another $50 worth of MC, or $100 worth if the MC is discounted by 20% or more.




On the other hand, the game is not providing me enough enjoyment to make me want to buy in again, and based on the answers given in the last Ask The Devs, it doesn't sound like it's going to go in the right direction any time soon.

• Fragmenting the community into regional servers that aren't all synced account-wise, and no way for our EU/AU/other friends to choose to join an NA server after they switch their account to an EU server. The whole concept of account migration is wrong and very early 2000s thinking. Accounts should be transparent across the entire server infrastructure, so a user only needs one account and merely selects which server they wish to join. So they can join an EU server if that's the best ping for them, but can also choose to join an NA server to meet up with North American friends for a match
  
• Disinterest in providing tactical/strategic gameplay, which begins with knowing the map you'll be dropping into before selecting your loadout and camo/colors (or, at a minimum, somehow being able to pre-set which chassis, loadouts and camo/colors you want to use with each map, so whichever map comes up, you're piloting whichever one of your mechs you pre-set to be used for that map).
  
• Uncertainty as to how the Clans will be introduced, how they will be balanced, whether they will be playable, what restrictions will be set, and whether there's any point to continuing to grind IS chassis variants or better to save up c-bills and MC for the Clan invasion. These are all broad categories of information that could easily be forthcoming in advance of the Clan Invasion happening without spoiling the actual event itself when it happens and properly prepare our real-life game accounts. This type of preparation has nothing to do with lore or metagame, as we already know there's a Clan Invasion coming, which was not the case in the lore/meta. Sometimes people need to remember this is just a game and while those of you who wish to can roleplay all you want, the rest of us have day jobs and would like to properly allocate our limited game resources appropriately.
  
• Uncertainties around Community Warfare and what the point will be if it's truly just going to be battling over a limited set of periphery planets over and over again, and whether it will completely replace the current game experience or exist alongside it so those who don't want to participate in CW can continue to play the existing game
  
• No interest in, or priority given toward, adding additional game modes that this game has been needing for months now. Even something as basic as TDM, something as diverse as CTF or KOTH, or something a bit more complex like proper Base Assault/Defense with actual bases (AI defense turrets, HQ destruction, etc) that even an unpaid team of enthusiasts was able to pull off (MW:LL). The game really needs these, and even CW would benefit from having more than the same old Conquest and Assaultquest modes. Dropship mode is just adding multiple lives, it's not actually a new game mode if it's still the same two cap-point-based game types.
  
• No dedicated servers for rent or ability to set up our own for private matches

Those are just a few of the disappointing responses we got in the last ATD. The list goes on.

Edited by jay35, 12 March 2013 - 07:16 AM.

[MaddMaxx]

StaggerCheck, on 12 March 2013 - 06:45 AM, said:

What about the player who has the forethought to understand that a game mechanic is broken, despite how it will impact their game?

If anything, I read into the OP that a level of frustration has been reached where he cannot fathom how the game designer brought this piece of equipment into the game thinking it was in balance. Now, after weeks of play and reading all the feedback from the player base, they have come to the conclusion that it needs to be tweaked. ECM has next to zero impact on my Mech of choice, but I took one look at the write up of the equipment and knew instantly how game breaking it was.

I just hope that the game designer has a vision for the end product that, right now, seems to be a painful process to get to with the piece by piece introduction of equipment.

It would seem you are some how confusing "Tweak" with "Overhaul". They have been tweaking almost everything in the game since day 1, and it is hoped they will continue to do so.

Just because a few folks didn't/don't like something that was added, doesn't mean the Dev should get less time to collect their Data and then make decisions based on that, rather than the incessant QQ'ing of those few, who would seem to have a pre-disposed disposition for it.

[Agent of Change]

Sifright, on 12 March 2013 - 07:09 AM, said:

gaaawd agent of change why you got to whine about their whining if you were a better forum warrior you would adapt to their whining instead you whine their brain mechanics are broken. learn to forum warrior noob.

I can too forum warrior, in fact that i can makes me question my life choices. In fact i'm probably going to do just that as soon as someone else visits k-town.

[Livewyr]

Popping in after a couple SC2 games.

(First, thank you Agent.)

ciller, on 12 March 2013 - 06:28 AM, said:

There has been a commital statement by PGI that they are not finished with ECM and that it will still be worked on, tweaked, and/or changed. Don't see why people have such QQ fests during beta. Give proper feedback, let them know its not good the way it is and stop with the end of days doom calling.

They've been "tweaking" and have stated repeatedly that it is working "almost" as intended. (If you check my links.. I've done everything before putting it on ice.)

MaddMaxx, on 12 March 2013 - 06:32 AM, said:

Nor does anyone who agrees with him. It is that he needs to tell us, over and over and over, and yet never follows through. His anguish is felt, but it is unfair he doesn't have the spine to actually just leave already.

Is he hoping that somehow his plea will carry more weight when he adds a "claim he will never carry out"?

Umm.. read the post, then read some links in it. I think you're getting crushed in one or two of those too...

Chavette, on 12 March 2013 - 06:45 AM, said:

About your suggestion, why do you need a wall of text, to get a simple point across?

If the suggestion involves numbers, namely seconds and meters, you can bet your *** they wont put your numbers in unchanged. So why bother? Just write "lock time grows in proportion to range", and BAM you saved 10 rows of your text.

And why does everyone want to introduce these incredibly complex balancing mechanisms, when it can be done by simplifying the current one? The learning curves for first time players is already unfriendly, complimented by the non existant tutorial or hover/load screen-tips, but no, add another 20 rules/caveats to the game, just to nerf something, because its so original... so a year from now, you'll have to read a 200 page book to play this game.

Eric darkstar Marr, on 12 March 2013 - 06:47 AM, said:

I would ask how high or stupid you are but I am in a good mood today.

A counter is a counter is a counter. ECM has 1 hard counter ECM, Tag makes it easy to hit form afar and PPC makes it easy to keep chained down. I am sorry if you do not have the brain power or skills to understand the basics of locking down and killing the most annoying thing on the field.

Because it's not a simple fix. They're all related.

ECM counters everything.
LRMs are over powered. (Get rid of ECM right now, missiles will dominate again.)
BAP is pointless. (get rid of ECM, it "might" have a use again)
NARC is pointless (even before ECM)
SSRMs are overpowered. (Get rid of ECM.. SSRMs become premier light hunters again.)
etc..etc..

You need to adjust all of it at once.. or it will just be broken in a different direction

Mongoose Trueborn, on 12 March 2013 - 06:04 AM, said:

Good player = Make whatever mechanics in the game work.
Bad player = Complain about how the mechanics are broken.

You should check out my suggestions ECM-style equipment.. you'd totally be ok with it. (I ran with your group.. a bunch of snipers and cheese snipers in ECM mechs.. ofcourse you'd be ok with it.)

Still waiting for you to explode.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------


And.. back to SC2.

(one minor edit: I said I'm putting the game on ice, not quitting outright)
Liturasy iz clirlee not fore evirywon...

Edited by Livewyr, 12 March 2013 - 07:21 AM.

[Chavette]

jay35, on 12 March 2013 - 07:11 AM, said:

............... /snip
Those are just a few of the disappointing responses we got in the last ATD. The list goes on.

These belong in the Suggestions forum, one topic each, not in a goodbye thread.. Oh, and the clans are kept secret for a reason, they wont tell you anything untill theyre here, and thats fine.

Edited by Chavette, 12 March 2013 - 07:17 AM.

[Thuzel]

Arkmaus, on 12 March 2013 - 07:09 AM, said:

It's good you have written the game off but still take time to post.
Bravo.

A lot of us are in the same boat. We spend a lot more time in the forums than in the game because we just don't care to play that much anymore. We come to the forums because we hope that things will get better, but it's a losing battle, and you shouldn't underestimate that. This is a very common thing with online games and is often the last stage before just completely moving on.

Considering the rabid fanboyism that most of us have for Mechwarrior and Battletech, it should really tell PGI something when we stop logging in to play...