170 replies to this topic

[BLUPRNT]

I can't count how many times I've seen 8 man stomps because no one took the time to take out the one LRM launcher. I always try to identify these pests asap and confront them but often I'm alone and don't last long when his little friends show up. Call for help and no one shows. The best I can do is distract them and hope my team is better at brawling than the other but often I'm left as the only one standing.

I don't believe LRM's are OP either. I have a couple of boats and they are a pain in the *** to use. Keeping target lock even in comms can be very difficult. OP's scenario is a boats dream come true.

Yes I've seen the yellow sky falling on me from all directions and all you can do is watch it come and the whole time thinking, AAAHHH Crap!

Edited by BLUPRNT, 13 March 2013 - 08:20 AM.

[Rebas Kradd]

I'm all about adapting to tactics, but I will say this: when your opponent has 4 or 5 LRM boats camped out near their base with wide expanses of open territory in between them and you, cover won't help you - because it isn't there. Every map currently has this problem. Even River City boaters can force this problem by sticking to open water, though snipers have a better chance of dealing with them there.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Hamm3r, on 13 March 2013 - 08:05 AM, said:

I don't see PPC boats NEARLY as much as LRMs, PPCs boats run too hot for a lota people.

And No, they don't have to be LOS if the guy your fighting against has you targeted, it transmits your targeting into to his team mates as well, another advantage to the LRM boats over the PPCs.

I don't care whether you've personally seen it. I'm asking what happens if you stand out in the open and 3 Stalker PPC boats fire at your center torso?

And Artemis requires LOS.

You shouldn't be getting directly cored by LRM's without Artemis tightening the spread on you. Assuming you have any idea what you are you doing and aren't a light mech standing still I guess.

I mean really, are people saying 3 Stalkers with no LOS are launching LRM's from 600+m away (just going by the fact that they have no LOS, much closer and they should have LOS) and with the warning, AMS, and ECM and them not having the benefit of artemis you are getting killed repeatedly that way?

Enough to post on the boards?

[Syllogy]

Rebas Kradd, on 13 March 2013 - 08:18 AM, said:

I'm all about adapting to tactics, but I will say this: when your opponent has 4 or 5 LRM boats camped out near their base with wide expanses of open territory in between them and you, cover won't help you - because it isn't there. Every map currently has this problem. Even River City boaters can force this problem by sticking to open water, though snipers have a better chance of dealing with them there.

There's always a way to get around, through, or over LRM boats.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Rebas Kradd, on 13 March 2013 - 08:18 AM, said:

I'm all about adapting to tactics, but I will say this: when your opponent has 4 or 5 LRM boats camped out near their base with wide expanses of open territory in between them and you, cover won't help you - because it isn't there. Every map currently has this problem. Even River City boaters can force this problem by sticking to open water, though snipers have a better chance of dealing with them there.

Wide expanses of open territory.....really? Which map is this? Alpine?

I can get to either base in River City in complete cover. There are two spots where I have to kind of pop my head out, but they'd have to be within 500m to hit me before i was back in cover. And if they were that close, it kind of defeats what you are talking about, because I could've used cover to get to them.

Same goes for Frozen and Forest. I would be willing to entertain it some what on Alpine and Caustic, but even then you can approach from cover it's just a lot harder.

[Baltasar]

Rebas Kradd, on 13 March 2013 - 08:18 AM, said:

I'm all about adapting to tactics, but I will say this: when your opponent has 4 or 5 LRM boats camped out near their base with wide expanses of open territory in between them and you, cover won't help you - because it isn't there. Every map currently has this problem. Even River City boaters can force this problem by sticking to open water, though snipers have a better chance of dealing with them there.

3-4 assault brawlers can melt things really fast as well, and since people close into brawl, they just melt whatever comes there way. Sometimes it's tough but you can still close, in mass, on those boats in the water pretty quick. Sure one or two will die but you will still get there. That or use their base (which from the water there are 2 places you can hide and still cap) to force them to move. That's one of the purpose of the base mechanics in the game. Yes multiple LRM boats are huge pain but can still be overcome, especially with fast mechs. Unfortunately, matchmaking can royally screw you some time in mech make up.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Really did you just say

Quote

wide expanses of open territory

Quote

wide expanses of open territory

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wide expanses of open territory

In this game?

[Major Scumbag]

LRM=Death by Coward

[Hamm3r]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 13 March 2013 - 08:19 AM, said:

I don't care whether you've personally seen it. I'm asking what happens if you stand out in the open and 3 Stalker PPC boats fire at your center torso?

Ok I'll counter that point, dosent matter in this argument, PPC need LOS, LRMs dont. simple.

I'll just leave it at this, since apparently trying to have a counter point to you 1337 haX0rs is like trying to change the level of the Pacific with a salad fork. Things aren't always black and white in game, if your standing out in the open, yes your inviting it, but that's not what happens most of the time. you are assuming that its just you and the LRM boat on the map, that just doesn't happen as often as you like to think.

I'm done with this discussion, happy gaming to you all!!

Edited by Hamm3r, 13 March 2013 - 08:26 AM.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Hamm3r, on 13 March 2013 - 08:26 AM, said:

Ok I'll counter that point, dosent matter in this argument, PPC need LOS, LRMs dont. simple.

I'll just leave it at this, since apparently trying to have a counter point to you 1337 haX0rs is like trying to change the level of the Pacific with a salad fork. Things aren't always black and white in game, if your standing out in the open, yes your inviting it, but that's not what happens most of the time. you are assuming that its just you and the LRM boat on the map, that just doesn't happen as often as you like to think.

I'm done with this discussion, happy gaming to you all!!

Artemis requires LOS though. You do realize that was the only thing that changed in the patch was the Artemis spread?

Otherwise it's been exactly the same.

Going to lunch! Bye!

[Kraven Kor]

Go after the LRM boat, get eaten by brawlers.

Focus on brawlers, get eaten by LRM boat.

*shrug*

[Flapdrol]

I was spectating a teammate yesterday, centurion he had no damage.

then a cat with 2x LRM20 launched a salvo agianst him and one of his sidetorso's was stripped of armor and internals were yellow. I dont know if he was running dodgy armor, but that salvo seemed way too effective.

[Fut]

Hamm3r, on 13 March 2013 - 07:38 AM, said:

I said it in another thread, individually no I dont believe the LRMs are OP, easy to counter with the proper use of cover, now take that same LRM Stalker and add another 2-3 just like it on the same team all shooting at the same target. Ever had 4 different streams of LRM spam all converging on YOU.....

So you think that LRMs should be nerfed due to multiple LRM Stalker Boats being on the same team?
Damn, you must really have it out for the little guys who only carry 1xLRM on their 'Mechs...

Also, if you have 4 different LRM boats firing at you, and you can't get behind cover - you got yourself out of position.

Flapdrol, on 13 March 2013 - 08:29 AM, said:

I was spectating a teammate yesterday, centurion he had no damage.

then a cat with 2x LRM20 launched a salvo agianst him and one of his sidetorso's was stripped of armor and internals were yellow. I dont know if he was running dodgy armor, but that salvo seemed way too effective.

Even if LRMs were nerfed to 1dmg each, if he's letting all of those 40 Missiles hit his side torso his armor would be gone (or at ~50% if he was in an Atlas or something else with massive armor).

Like somebody said above, a lot of the issues people have with LRMs stem from bad piloting.

Edited by Fut, 13 March 2013 - 08:36 AM.

[Terran123rd]

Us lurm boats are chewy. We're practically 'mech-flavored bubblegum. We invest a good deal, if not the majority, of our weight and crits into a weapon that moves about as fast as molasses, lets you know it's coming, has a minimum range longer than most brawling matches, and is countered by practically anything and everything. We have room for, maybe, 2 or three medium lasers as a back-up, even if we don't pack TAG.

We're only powerful because people are stupid enough to ignore us.

[T0rmented]

FrDrake, on 13 March 2013 - 07:41 AM, said:

Yes and they wasted nearly 150 missiles because of it

150 missiles spread over 3 mechs is 50 each if hes boating LRMs hes boating ammo and thats a drop in the ocean for him

[Salis777]

Terran123rd, on 13 March 2013 - 08:32 AM, said:

Us lurm boats are chewy. We're practically 'mech-flavored bubblegum. We invest a good deal, if not the majority, of our weight and crits into a weapon that moves about as fast as molasses, lets you know it's coming, has a minimum range longer than most brawling matches, and is countered by practically anything and everything. We have room for, maybe, 2 or three medium lasers as a back-up, even if we don't pack TAG.

We're only powerful because people are stupid enough to ignore us.

All this discussion around dealing with LRM boats first is pretty much proving the point. Any tactical situation where a build FORCES the other team to play in a certain way is game changing. The recent Artemis spread changes are FORCING people to deal with LRM boats first or die. This creates a situation where if you're in a pug game and people are not organised, LRMs are causing an arms race, i.e. who can stack more LRM/ECM over the whole population. This is a game imbalance.

Of course, this isn't affecting high ELO teams and 4/8 mans because we can all deal with it. Doesn't mean it isn't a problem in the beta of a game.

[Major Scumbag]

Weapon system with 1000M range. Indirect fire. Issue is not LRM. Its boating the LRM. The boaters I have seen just sit back at base and hide till they see skirmishes. Yes terrian is key to avoid them but sometimes you cant. They also top the damage charts. Doesnt seem right to reward somebody for hanging back avoding all conflicts. Alot of people say take out the LRM boaters first. 1 main issue is getting to them. Now the savior bonus caters to them even more so. You know when something is OP. Every match has them and few at least. It is to effective for the very little work involved. If boating LRM wasnt effective. Then you would see alot less of them but thats not the case.

[Kylere]

Major Scumbag, on 13 March 2013 - 08:25 AM, said:

LRM=Death by Coward

Okay, I will keep killing anyone stupid enough to let me kill them with LRMS. That does not make me a coward, it makes them poor pilots.

[Calem]

Kylere, on 13 March 2013 - 07:42 AM, said:

LRMS are only as OP as your opponent is dumb.

But, that said, they rip up dumb opponents like nothing else.

It deserved quoting.

On another note: the muppets finally managed to convert me: I'm now in favour of public Elo ratings. It would allow for a new level of understanding.

[Skyscream Sapphire]

Salis777, on 13 March 2013 - 08:48 AM, said:

All this discussion around dealing with LRM boats first is pretty much proving the point. Any tactical situation where a build FORCES the other team to play in a certain way is game changing.

Do you realize how ridiculous this is? SRMs FORCE me to not let them get to point blank range. Snipers FORCE me to move behind cover except during their cool downs. Laser boats FORCE me to torso twist when I'd rather be honing in my aim. High DPS from A/Cs FORCE me find cover and change my attack plan.

Uh...yeah. No kidding. Every weapon in the game (ok, not flamers or MG) FORCE you to react to it if you would prefer not to die. There may be a discussion to be had on the effectiveness of LRMs, but this did not add to it.