170 replies to this topic

[Phingers]

LRM Cat player here with TAG and 3 lasers....like playing with founder for money.....but its not that LRMS are OP its just bad players getting kited in the open. River City nite I was left against 5 mechs ....Hunchie two cataphracts and two awesomes....they could have capped but chased me...killed each kitting them, none were under 70% and the hunchie was almost 100%...all in the open and just rained on them ...it was op...but no cover and no play to win...just chased me around the water

[Eddy Hawkins]

Phingers, on 14 March 2013 - 06:24 AM, said:

LRM Cat player here with TAG and 3 lasers....like playing with founder for money.....but its not that LRMS are OP its just bad players getting kited in the open. River City nite I was left against 5 mechs ....Hunchie two cataphracts and two awesomes....they could have capped but chased me...killed each kitting them, none were under 70% and the hunchie was almost 100%...all in the open and just rained on them ...it was op...but no cover and no play to win...just chased me around the water

your LRMs are doing more damage then intended, click the link

http://mwomercs.com/...results-inside/

and it has OVER 9000 views

[Sheraf]

Nick Carlile, on 14 March 2013 - 06:13 AM, said:

See but they don't seem to die very fast to my 2x LRM 15.

Are they standing still for you?

They were running around. I don't expect them to die that fast. That was from 800m away. I don't get to see the action. Maybe they were running toward the LRM.

[Baltasar]

Eddy Hawkins, on 14 March 2013 - 06:28 AM, said:

your LRMs are doing more damage then intended, click the link

http://mwomercs.com/...results-inside/

and it has OVER 9000 views

Xendojo, on 14 March 2013 - 06:16 AM, said:

All missiles are OP due to a bug with splash damage.

There is even video proof taken from the live environment.

http://mwomercs.com/...results-inside/

Guys we get it, there is a post that talks about missile splash damage. It's been posted in this thread multiple times and in all the current LRM threads.

[Eddy Hawkins]

Baltasar, on 14 March 2013 - 06:29 AM, said:

Guys we get it, there is a post that talks about missile splash damage. It's been posted in this thread multiple times and in all the current LRM threads.

we got it that you got it Baltasar, but the thread was moved to patch feedback, where unless its linked, people won’t read it and they will continue to post LRM suggestions or complaints without knowing that there appears to be an issue with all missiles.

Edited by Eddy Hawkins, 14 March 2013 - 06:35 AM.

[Baltasar]

Eddy Hawkins, on 14 March 2013 - 06:34 AM, said:

we got it that you got it Baltasar, but the thread was moved to patch feedback, where unless its linked, people won’t read it and they will continue to post LRM suggestions or complaints without knowing that there appears to be an issue with all missiles.

Yes but linking it every 5 (hyperbole I know) posts is just spamming. Just refer to it earlier in the thread and if the person asks for it then give it to them. Try to encourage people to read past posts since there are good discussions in earlier pages.

[Nightcrept]

Eddy Hawkins, on 14 March 2013 - 06:34 AM, said:

we got it that you got it Baltasar, but the thread was moved to patch feedback, where unless its linked, people won’t read it and they will continue to post LRM suggestions or complaints without knowing that there appears to be an issue with all missiles.

It's only a issue if it is new.

Since there doesn't appear to be any change in game then I am guessing it is a pre-existing part of the game and not a bug.
If is part of the game then it has already been balanced and doesn't matter.

[Nick Carlile]

Nightcrept, on 14 March 2013 - 06:45 AM, said:

It's only a issue if it is new.

Since there doesn't appear to be any change in game then I am guessing it is a pre-existing part of the game and not a bug.
If is part of the game then it has already been balanced and doesn't matter.

This is my problem, until the last patch or two. Everyone considered LRM's complete crap. Then they throw in an adjustment to the spread on artemis and everyone is up in arms because if you stand still a Stalker boating 4 big LRM sets can gank the crap out of you.

So unless this splash thing is from the most recent patch (Unlikely, I play a lot of LRM's and things haven't changed for me). Then it's been balanced against this entire time.

[Nick Carlile]

And if it is so overpowered, why are people just complaining now?

Thontor, on 14 March 2013 - 07:02 AM, said:

So its ok that missiles do more damage to smaller mechs than intended?

No

In only the case of LRM's. I'm not getting into Streaks and SRM's, yes, yes it is.

Because people considered them UTTER crap till just recently when they get riled up over stalkers.

And that really had nothing to do with light mechs. It had to do with stalkers killing stationary atlases to quickly.

Nothing is different than it has been for the last 4 months.

[Nick Carlile]

My basic point is.

This splash damage has existed for 4 months.

During that 4 months the only changes have been Tag, Artemis requiring LOS and a change in the Artemis pattern.

So why wasn't it a problem 1 month ago? 2 months ago? 3 months ago?

Why did people consider LRM's crap 1 month ago? 2 months ago? 3 months ago?

[Eddy Hawkins]

Nightcrept, on 14 March 2013 - 06:45 AM, said:

It's only a issue if it is new.

Since there doesn't appear to be any change in game then I am guessing it is a pre-existing part of the game and not a bug.
If is part of the game then it has already been balanced and doesn't matter.

Splash was added in Nov, and until we got testing grounds (and the new stat tracking), the community could not do any sort of real testing. some people (including myself) suspected that missiles were doing more damage than intended, but could not prove it until resonantly

Edited by Eddy Hawkins, 14 March 2013 - 07:06 AM.

[Nick Carlile]

Thontor, on 14 March 2013 - 07:04 AM, said:

... Missile grouping got tighter in the last patch... meaning damage is more focused, and more deadly.

That's fine, but that means you change the grouping, not nerf the damage.

And honestly I have seen 0 difference in my 2 LRM 15 Centurion. I'm really having issue with these grouping changes having done anything for me.

Maybe it matters more with LRM 20's? Or the way stalkers shoot their missiles?

But for me it's just not done anything.

Edited by Nick Carlile, 14 March 2013 - 07:07 AM.

[Nick Carlile]

Thontor, on 14 March 2013 - 07:08 AM, said:

Agreed... That's what I've been saying... The new formation is great, but should be a wider spread.

I guess my problem is we're once again doing all these STUPID blanket statements.

You can't just say "Missiles do more damage, lower all of their damage".

You have to look at each individual item.

Have people been doing these splash tests with LRM's as well?

I understand the Streaks vs Lights dynamic.

But seriously, it takes me 4 or 5, sometimes 6 dual LRM 15 shots to killing a moving light mech out in the open.

I'm just not seeing this massive damage everyone talks about.

[Nightcrept]

If anything spread the grouping.

I do not see a difference in the width of the grouping or the damage areas myself. So personally I think it's just imaginary.


If Splash damage was added and then Lrm's damage was adjusted. Then this is a witch hunt and not a real issue.
If the spash damage is removed then lrm damage per missile will need to be raised to bring them back into balance.

So leave the damage alone. We have already been there and done that and don't need to visit it again.

[Eddy Hawkins]

Nick Carlile, on 14 March 2013 - 07:05 AM, said:

My basic point is.

This splash damage has existed for 4 months.

During that 4 months the only changes have been Tag, Artemis requiring LOS and a change in the Artemis pattern.

So why wasn't it a problem 1 month ago? 2 months ago? 3 months ago?

Why did people consider LRM's crap 1 month ago? 2 months ago? 3 months ago?

The issue seems to be splash, and with this new patch and the tighter grouping of LRMs that came with it, the splash damage is more concentrated, hence why people are talking about mechs taking more CT damage then before.

]if the devs didnt know about how splash is effecting some mechs (those with many hit boxes close together), they most likely did not realize what would happen if they tightened the LRM spread.

it is also very possible that internal testing did not pick this up as i doubt they shot at nonmoving mechs during play testing.

Edited by Eddy Hawkins, 14 March 2013 - 07:18 AM.

[Yankee77]

Thontor, on 14 March 2013 - 07:15 AM, said:

There is definitely a difference..

First two shots are the new formation, second two shots are the old formation... New one is much less spread out, much more focused damage.

The new ones are also much more stretched out. This means if you stand still and let the lurms smack you, the grouping will be tighter. If you are turning/twisting as you get hit, however, the damage should be more spread out.

Overall it's definitely an LRM buff, to be sure, but one that was needed IMO (splash damage bug notwithstanding of course, if it is a bug).

[Nightcrept]

Thontor, on 14 March 2013 - 07:15 AM, said:

There is definitely a difference..

First two shots are the new formation, second two shots are the old formation... New one is much less spread out, much more focused damage.

Not exactly. The old formation pinched. The new formation is designed to prevent the pinching which lead to easy coring.
If you found your optimum range in a game you could almost one shoot a atlas with the old formation.

Eddy Hawkins, on 14 March 2013 - 07:15 AM, said:

The issue seems to be splash, and with this new patch and the tighter grouping of LRMs that came with it, the splash damage is more concentrated, hence why people are talking about mechs taking more CT damage then before.

]if the devs didnt know about how splash is effecting some mechs (those with many hit boxes close together), they most likely did not realize what would happen if they tightened the LRM spread.

it is also very possible that internal testing did not pick this up as i doubt they shot at nonmoving mechs during play testing.

Your making a lot of guesses there. Especially since the new formation was created to prevent the coring of mechs due to the pinching of the flight path with the old formation.

Basically I guess what most of us are saying is that you discovered how a game mechanic little known to the community works.
But it has been in existence for a long time and is not op.

[Nightcrept]

Thontor, on 14 March 2013 - 07:25 AM, said:

True the old formation pinched, that's why the change was made in the first place.

But the new formation is nearly as tight as the old one was when it pinched. They should increase the spread to somewhere in between.

No it's not.

The old formation pinched down to almost the size of one lrm. Watch his vid they pinch. The new artemis formation is about the same width of the old formation (perhaps a bit smaller) and swirls. But it does not pinch down.

Also with the new formation you must have direct line of sight for the entire flight of the missiles.

Now if your a light mech and you let a lrm boat fire AND keep line of sight with you for the entire time you aren't doing it right.

[Vodrin Thales]

Nick Carlile, on 14 March 2013 - 07:05 AM, said:

My basic point is.

This splash damage has existed for 4 months.

During that 4 months the only changes have been Tag, Artemis requiring LOS and a change in the Artemis pattern.

So why wasn't it a problem 1 month ago? 2 months ago? 3 months ago?

Why did people consider LRM's crap 1 month ago? 2 months ago? 3 months ago?

The problem with your logic is that people were not complaining as much (but they were complaining incidentally, there have been "LRM's are OP" posts since almost the week after ECM went live despite the fact they were rather underutilized) because LRMs were a rare bird prior to the recent buffs, not because their damage sucked as you have attested.

If there is a bug with missile splash damage it needs to be fixed. If that nerfs LRM damage to the extent that they do not function as intended then the damage can be adjusted for LRM's only. Personally I think they will be fine if splash is fixed.

Edited by Vodrin Thales, 15 March 2013 - 10:48 AM.

[Eddy Hawkins]

Nightcrept, on 14 March 2013 - 07:24 AM, said:

Not exactly. The old formation pinched. The new formation is designed to prevent the pinching which lead to easy coring.
If you found your optimum range in a game you could almost one shoot a atlas with the old formation.


Your making a lot of guesses there. Especially since the new formation was created to prevent the coring of mechs due to the pinching of the flight path with the old formation.

Basically I guess what most of us are saying is that you discovered how a game mechanic little known to the community works.
But it has been in existence for a long time and is not op.

have you read the SRM post in patch feedback? the post is well put together and the thread includes video evidence from others who did testing on their own. Yes, it is not dealing with LRMs, however splash works the same fi it is SRM, SSRM, or LRM.

fI the Devs did not know about how splash is working (in some cases), then the "fix" they implemented to stop LRM coring, could have unintentionally made the problem worse.

Also, i never said LRMs are OP, mealy that in some cases, they are doing more damage then intended

here is the link if you have not seen the post

http://mwomercs.com/...e/page__st__200

Edited by Eddy Hawkins, 14 March 2013 - 07:46 AM.