647 replies to this topic

[TungstenWall]

Cest7, on 13 March 2013 - 03:12 PM, said:

I bet the splash damage is what is also causing commandos to suicide in water with SRM/SSRM.

OH! that explains how I died the other day! I fired an SRM4 while chasing a half dead trashbucket in RC. Some one on TS started laughing an that is when i noticed I has killed myself

[Amaris the Usurper]

MoonUnitBeta, on 13 March 2013 - 03:21 PM, said:

I had thought that was the way it was working too. But there's no way. I hope we all do more testing on this and can crunch down on some vital evidence. Hopefully PGI can tell us how splash is calculated so we can confirm some numbers.

Anyone can check my results in Testing Grounds (and I invite you to do this). The real question is whether they carry over to multiplayer matches. That seems likely, but it would be nice to have some confirmation from the devs.

[Vapor Trail]

An SRM 6 is supposed to do 15 damage right? 2.5 damage/missile * 6 missiles = 15 damage.

Walked up behind a Commando 1B. Stock loadout: 8 rear armor, 16 internal structure. 24 damage, and NO LESS should take down the COM from the rear, right?

Well, the results kinda speak for themselves.



What about the front? 32 damage minimum (16 armor, 16 IS) to take it down.

Edited by Vapor Trail, 13 March 2013 - 03:36 PM.

[Psikez]

Nice work

[Monky]

Just confirmed with Omid in a game that it is 'technically working as intended but hasn't really been explained why/how very well' (paraphrasing here). Hopefully we'll get a command chair topic/update on this as I'm curious to know why it's implemented this way. It seems poorly balanced in favor of splash weapons the way it is working.

[MoonUnitBeta]

Amaris the Usurper, on 13 March 2013 - 03:25 PM, said:

Anyone can check my results in Testing Grounds (and I invite you to do this). The real question is whether they carry over to multiplayer matches. That seems likely, but it would be nice to have some confirmation from the devs.

Yeah, when I get home I will test it. But I'm sure there's no doubt it's also the same in multiplayer. Maybe I -will- put that engine back in my 3L after all lol. I've a hard time killing commando's in two volleys though. I feel bad, like a cheater, when their broken bodies plow into the ground and they DC immediately after I basically swooped in and killed them before they could do anything. Anyways, I'm still hoping we get official response with out splash damage is calculated. Maybe I'll ask that in the Ask The Devs.

[Amaris the Usurper]

Phaesphoros, on 13 March 2013 - 03:22 PM, said:

Much more easy and reliable method to test dmg issue:

Stock JR has 8 armor on its arms. Fire 1 SRM2 (supposedly 5 dmg), 1 SL => 8 dmg. Cores the arm w/o touching the internals. Confirm dmg by using 1 ML + 1 SL on the other arm.

Result: arms cored as expected, BUT additional splash dmg to side torso and leg when using the SRM.
Edit: When using the laser, a bit of armor remains (its red and when you touch it with a SL for .1 s its gone). Could be some rounding error, minor issue.


Really appreciate your tests, Amaris. Thank you for sharing the results.

I don't see why this is more reliable, but it does provide some confirmation. Thanks.

[Psikez]

Monky, on 13 March 2013 - 03:28 PM, said:

Just confirmed with Omid in a game that it is 'technically working as intended but hasn't really been explained why/how very well' (paraphrasing here). Hopefully we'll get a command chair topic/update on this as I'm curious to know why it's implemented this way. It seems poorly balanced in favor of splash weapons the way it is working.

I don't like it, they should do stated damage either fully on the component thats hit or split among whats splashed. Either way the total should be 2.5 per missile or they need to drastically drop the damage if they're going to splash 4 components per hit

[Idolo]

If this data is correct and it appear it is, it would explain why missiles always seem to hit like a truck. This is a pretty major bug excellent find.

[Monky]

Psikez, on 13 March 2013 - 03:29 PM, said:

I don't like it, they should do stated damage either fully on the component thats hit or split among whats splashed. Either way the total should be 2.5 per missile or they need to drastically drop the damage if they're going to splash 4 components per hit

I agree, he did mention it depends on how many 'sub sections' it splashes can cause it to vary how much is actually applied, but it looks like at least on small mechs like commandos and in certain situations on mechs that have arm/leg/rear/front side torso hotbox intersections that it is doing full damage on my tests (fire at the side hips of a catapult, inbetween the arm and the leg joint for instance). Something is weird about it. At the least from what I took from that chat it seems light mechs are getting more 'subsections' overlapped, causing more damage to be applied? Best that I can guess currently.

Edited by Monky, 13 March 2013 - 03:33 PM.

[Drenzul]

I'm all for removing splash damage TBH, let face it, explosions tend to get ignored by thick armour plate.

Hell even modern tanks can survive been at close range to a nuclear detonation, explosive damage simply doesn't do much to hard targets.

Perhaps make splash only affect areas the armour has already been stripped from instead.

[Gen Kumon]

...after watching that Commando video, I can only assume missiles are applying splash damage even to the section they hit directly. Which, even if you ignore any other possible bug, means the damage is notably higher than stated. Either that or the missiles that hit to the side applied their damage multiple times to the center torso instead of just once. Either way, it can't be working as intended. There's just no other way it could have applied 24 damage to the center torso.

Edited by Gen Kumon, 13 March 2013 - 03:35 PM.

[Monky]

Drenzul, on 13 March 2013 - 03:33 PM, said:

I'm all for removing splash damage TBH, let face it, explosions tend to get ignored by thick armour plate.

Hell even modern tanks can survive been at close range to a nuclear detonation, explosive damage simply doesn't do much to hard targets.

Perhaps make splash only affect areas the armour has already been stripped from instead.

As far as real world physics, this makes good sense.

[TungstenWall]

maybe the intent is to make SRMs and LRMs more effective vs small targets than larger ones? I don't like this excuse, but it may be what they are aiming for?

[Tabrias07]

I think that commando video is more damning than anything, but one thing I'm thinking, could the percentage simply be calculated in some other way?

Could you test how many SRMs it take to blow an atlas leg clean off?

[Sagamore]

As someone who has mastered the commando chassis, I fully support this thread. I'm tired of being blown up in 2-3 hits from 3L streaks.

[RiceyFighter]

Man commando takes 400% more streak damage. WOW!

[Amaris the Usurper]

Tabrias07, on 13 March 2013 - 03:37 PM, said:

I think that commando video is more damning than anything, but one thing I'm thinking, could the percentage simply be calculated in some other way?

Could you test how many SRMs it take to blow an atlas leg clean off?

In Testing Grounds, you can shoot any 'mech with any non-missile weapon (or combination thereof). If you do this, you will find that

100*[total expected damage]/[total expected HP],

as described in the methodology section, always gives the correct health percentage. In other words, as far as we can tell, the percentage isn't calculated in some other way.

[Stimbles]

Splash damage from a single SRM2 fired at the centre torso of the Commando in the testing grounds hit every armour section and reduced overall health to 84%. Took a total of four volleys (8 missiles) to core it out.

[One Medic Army]

Well, now I'm kind-of glad that I currently can't play MWO.
This is a pretty serious if it's actually happening in-game rather than in the training grounds.

Has anyone tried doing a sync 8v8 to test yet?