647 replies to this topic

[Eddy Hawkins]

PGI should offer to give OP a job

[Andross Deverow]

Vapor Trail, on 13 March 2013 - 03:26 PM, said:

An SRM 6 is supposed to do 15 damage right? 2.5 damage/missile * 6 missiles = 15 damage.

Walked up behind a Commando 1B. Stock loadout: 8 rear armor, 16 internal structure. 24 damage, and NO LESS should take down the COM from the rear, right?

Well, the results kinda speak for themselves.



What about the front? 32 damage minimum (16 armor, 16 IS) to take it down.

Morale of the story is.... If ya a squishy light.... dun stand still..lol!

[Gevurah]

Emailed support@mwomercs.com (after all, that's the proper way to report a bug) - I suggest others do this as well. Having worked in internet tech support for over 10 years (around 5 of which I did email support) than the more emails you get on this, the more resources they have to dedicate, the more chance they will say "****, just answer them already!".


Created thread to help add weight to this: http://mwomercs.com/...s-are-broke-as/

[MustrumRidcully]

Interesting find.

[Kdogg788]

Andross Deverow, on 14 March 2013 - 06:31 AM, said:

Morale of the story is.... If ya a squishy light.... dun stand still..lol!

No moral of the story, both weapons are doing MUCH more damage than they should, hence the super effectiveness of the most hated builds in the game.

-k

[jay35]

To the topic poster: Great job analyzing Streaks!

This data compounds the problem with Raven 3Ls, because you can't lock streaks onto them 90% of the time, so they seem even more robust and invincible because of that, meanwhile their own Streaks strip enemy mech armor like crazy, especially if it's a Light mech. No wonder 3Ls (or any other Light using ECM and Streaks) seem so overpowered compared to other Light mechs.

Anyway, until a patch fixes this, it sounds like it's time to run Streaks on any build designed to combat Light mechs, especially if you have ECM which will enable you to counter a 3L's ECM and target them with streaks.

Regarding LRMs, that explains why they are sheer madness right now and rain hell on the battlefield.

Edited by jay35, 14 March 2013 - 07:06 AM.

[Xendojo]

Just did a little bit of testing on this to confirm.

Took an SRM4 to the right arm of an AS7-D in testing grounds.

Made 100% sure all 4 missiles were impacting the arm.

The RT of the atlas was stripped of armor before the RA was even red armor. Orange armor on the RA while the RT was yellow internals.

Repeated this on an awesome and a cataphract. On the awesome i aimed as far away as i could from the RT and the arm died first. On the cataphract i made sure all 4 missiles would impact the RA and splash the RT, and RT was stripped with yellow internals while orange armor still remained on the RA.

It seems that splash is doing more damage than the impacts.

Tested firing an SRM4 from the left arm of my TBT-3C into the right arm of mechs facing me from 30 meters out.

So add another confirmed to this.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Yup... I've found that SRM splash damage > SRM damage, too. Also, plain ol' SRM2 is dealing about 20-25 damage to a Commando if you shoot for the chest...


I guess it should also be noted that Ravens are getting killed by SRMs faster than normal because of this, too... it's not like only the Raven's SRMs get this accidental damage boost. You can use normal SRMs to take advantage of this loophole to kill Ravens until it's fixed.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 14 March 2013 - 07:16 AM.

[Calem]

I’m all in favour of fixing splash damage. Preferrably by doing this: Keep the on-impact 3.5m detection explosion bubble, determine the area hit/hit most, apply fixed missile damage value there, and only there, done. This should hopefully be simple enough to avoid/tackle issues with individual chassis modeling issues.

Make it clear-cut hit or miss for either full listed damage (only) or none.

That way, light mechs don’t suffer where they shouldn’t and player weapon statistics for missiles hopefully get fixed as a side effect, as right now, the averages are – ironically – too low. Lower than listed value. Ingame weapon stats should at least return listed damage value for (total damage / total hits) and possibly higher due to ammo explosions, arms ripped off etc.

Basically we need a more transparent, more robust and easier to tune system.

[MuonNeutrino]

Prosperity Park, on 14 March 2013 - 07:10 AM, said:

I guess it should also be noted that Ravens are getting killed by SRMs faster than normal because of this, too... it's not like only the Raven's SRMs get this accidental damage boost. You can use normal SRMs to take advantage of this loophole to kill Ravens until it's fixed.

I wish ravens showed up in the training grounds, or at least if they do I haven't seen them yet. They *already* have weird hitboxes, so it would be interesting to see whether that makes them more or less susceptible to this bug.

Edited by MuonNeutrino, 14 March 2013 - 07:21 AM.

[Syllogy]

This has already been addressed. The Explosive properties of Missiles are allowing each missile to hit multiple zones at the same time.

Devs are looking into this and keeping a close eye on it.

[jay35]

Prosperity Park, on 14 March 2013 - 07:10 AM, said:

Yup... I've found that SRM splash damage > SRM damage, too. Also, plain ol' SRM2 is dealing about 20-25 damage to a Commando if you shoot for the chest...


I guess it should also be noted that Ravens are getting killed by SRMs faster than normal because of this, too... it's not like only the Raven's SRMs get this accidental damage boost. You can use normal SRMs to take advantage of this loophole to kill Ravens until it's fixed.

Good luck trying to hit something with dumbfire SRMs that is always behind you and has already stripped your armor with its dual Streak launchers and MLs in just a few salvos, meanwhile you've only gotten his armor yellow, maybe orange if you're very good. This is the daily experience of every Medium mech.

Edited by jay35, 14 March 2013 - 07:25 AM.

[WANTED]

Of course the one mech I decide to level up with all 3 variants and I only have 4 mech bays would be my Commando suffering this flaw. I sure know how to pick em. Luckily I haven't been running into too many Raven or Streak cats lately. Of course I run a 2D with ECM to at least counter some of that. Hope this is fixed soon.

[Wildstreak]

Missiles of any kind should not do splash damage, period.

[Xendojo]

Syllogy, on 14 March 2013 - 07:23 AM, said:

This has already been addressed. The Explosive properties of Missiles are allowing each missile to hit multiple zones at the same time.

Devs are looking into this and keeping a close eye on it.

In my little test only two components took damage, only RA and RT. Everything else remained untouched. So *in theory* this is not multiplicative damage. It's a direct comparison between impact damage and splash damage. And as P.P. confirmed:

Splash > Impact

Edited by Xendojo, 14 March 2013 - 07:58 AM.

[Deathlike]

Thontor, on 14 March 2013 - 07:35 AM, said:

Yes, but until recently I don't think people realized that the splash damage was in addition to their listed firepower. I, for one, just thought the total damage, including splash, added up to the listed firepower.

Actually, I've always thought it did 2.5 minimum (per missile) to its intended target, plus a small % extra for splash, like 10-15% total of all parts hit (per missile).

Edited by Deathlike, 14 March 2013 - 07:43 AM.

[Gevurah]

So given that this has been going on for a long time and that game balance has effectively been based around this, I wonder what kind of hornets nest we've stumbled into?

Example:
People die too quick in CB to LRM volleys/etc --> armor doubled.
Missile damage set to higher values to compensate for lack of aimed fire/etc
LRMS still an issue --> ams receives slight buff by increasing # chassis that can carry it to nearly all. But AMS won't stop streaks.
*Streakboats/LRMboats rule.
Streak/LRMS still an issue --> ecm brought in as counter.
Now splattapults are the big deal, and raven 3l's. Why? the core issue was never resolved.
*if my timeline is wrong, let me know.

So once this missile issue is resolved, the question then becomes will the devs need to modify armor values again back to base value? If so, then missile damage was always the core issue, and in fact increasing the damage because they're "unguided" in fact exacerbated it. So effectively for the devs to fix this:

Remove splash damage, make missiles damage what they impact. Observe results.
If fights suddenly start taking huge lengths of time or seem out of order, adjust other weapons up or bring armor values back down. Observe again.
Adjust values again, rinse/repeat.
The scary thing is this whole kerfluffle could have been avoided with proper beta testing. I'm willing to bet this issue was raised in CB and never addressed.


CFOBP (Cluster Fluffle Of Biblical Proportions) anyone?


as to splash damage being realistic: it's not. Even archaic anti tank missiles used shaped charge high explosive rounds to concentrate the damage to penetrate armor. Most of the secondary effects are in blast wave/pressure which cause virtually no discernible effect on actual armor.

Edited by Gevurah, 14 March 2013 - 07:48 AM.

[Kraven Kor]

Merchant, on 14 March 2013 - 07:25 AM, said:

Missiles of any kind should not do splash damage, period.

Eh, I'd be OK with them doing splash, so long as the direct damage + splash damage was about the same as the direct damage should be.

Heck, "splash damage" could be the mechanic simulating "how many missiles hit which part of the body," though I would prefer that being based on missile flight paths, as it currently is / seems to be.

[Culler]

This explains why when I alpha a bunch of SRMs into someone rear center torso from point blank their arms fall off (because the side torsos get destroyed even though they aren't impacted directly.)

No wonder SRMs are so good.

[MaddMaxx]

Tennex, on 13 March 2013 - 02:55 PM, said:

"Leg damage from explosive weapons has a possibility of being a fraction of what it should be [Resolved]


BUG : We have been adding more and more pieces to the legs of mech for various reasons. This has caused our explosion engulf code to exhibit an issue by dealing less damage than it should to the leg components from explosive weapons in certain situations.


NOTES : The system has now been upgraded to instead of using the number of pieces in the leg to the actual volume the pieces take up. Way more accurate, way more robust. This would also have affected arms if they were made of many pieces, but none really are. "

this is a dev post from thomas maybe somehow related? this is about reduction in damage though.

That may explain the OP's ending comment about the Atlas Leg and how durable it was.